Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

What happened the other day is not new, in the maximun level of rivals, in a long hard mountain stage with battle from far, he use to fade.

1 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 6:07:56
2 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 0:02:07
3 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:02:15
4 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:02:18
5 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:21
6 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:27
7 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:02:33
8 Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:03:22
9 Thomas Danielson (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:25
10 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:31
11 Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz) Pro Team Astana 0:03:35
12 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:38
13 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) Team RadioShack 0:03:44
14 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:03:50
15 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
16 Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:03:55
17 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:07
18 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:04:42
19 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:58

Their crashs could have been afected him a little, but always when he crash it is an excuse. Froome crashed last year and he won le Tour, Froome has crashed already this Tour.

Is it a question of age? Really? he was second this year in a lot of important races. I could admit he is starting to note the age, respect when he was 30. Of course in 2014 althoug he wanst so strong as Froome in Dauphine he was close and now he is not close, but in other kind of stages we will see how him is better, as the last ITT. In fact he was 8 in la Planche des Belle filles, the same time than Uran. Of course a bad performance in a perfect stage for him and a performance similar to when he had the Giro in his legs (becouse that is not a problem for him)

But you talk as there is a huge difference between 2014 and this year. and it is not so big. He is starting to decline, but in 2014 he never beated Quintana or Froome when they were at his best...just Quintana in Tirreno when he was with different objetives than Contador, not peaking, and Froome in la Vuelta becouse Froome did a bad ITT for a mistake and he wanst at his best. In le Tour he put 2 second in a mountain finish to Nibali...well, good, even I think he could have won that Tour with Froome out, but no so impressing to acept he was the stronger of that year.

In 2014 in Arrate he wanst that kind of rider who attack and make the difference as he was before his santion.

I hope he get the level this Tour to attack and make the race interesting. He is one of the few who can do it. He had the rest day to heal his bounds and this 2 no so demanding days.

In this interview before this Tour he said:
http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20170628/contador-voy-tour-ganar-no-hacer-buen-puesto/1572462.shtml

I feel very good and with lot of confidence. I am better than last year, I feel less tired after Dauphine, with better feelings day by day. I go to le Tour to win. This year route is good for me. I have still good legs and good recover. I go on while the numbers are good.

So, or he is lying as usually, becouse we didnt see that in the ITT and La Planche this year, or he doesnt agree he is clearly declining as you said.

I think reallity is an intermediate option.

In 2014, he completely destroyed some dude who broke the record in Huy 2 weeks later on a short steep climb, and Contador was never great on these types of climbs. 5 days after that performance, he caused a meltdown in the clinic by going full *** on the final TT. It was clear that he was on a monster shape in entire 2014, possibly second best ever after 2009. But, obviously everyone that got beaten by him was sick/out of shape/did not care/missing his puppy/some other reason that makes nonsense.

Also he crushed Quintana on Lanciano, was in a monster form at Dauphine not getting dropped by Froome (he has never been good in Dauphine, in 2009 he was getting beaten by Gesink and Fuglsang uphill, he then crushed the TDF; in 2010 he couldn't drop Brajkovic, he then won the TDF-looking at the climbing times it is pretty obvious who of the two (Contador,Froome) would improve most)

And giving 2011 Tour as an example? He came to the TDF after dominating one of the hardest Giros, and injured his knee on stage 9.

Seriously, why is this user (taxus4a) not banned for trolling permanently?(And it is not about only Contador, for example when Santambrogio was contemplating suicide he was saying that Santambrogio deserves to feel bad and suicidal only because he was doping(you can see his ridiculous posts here, starting by page 20- viewtopic.php?f=20&t=20769&start=380 -and he has been outed as a troll by many(Descender and hrotha, for example) and was banned from Parlamento Ciclista)

 

[Red Rick]

I hope we learn more in the rest of the Tour

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

What happened the other day is not new, in the maximun level of rivals, in a long hard mountain stage with battle from far, he use to fade.

1 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 6:07:56
2 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 0:02:07
3 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:02:15
4 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:02:18
5 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:21
6 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:27
7 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:02:33
8 Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:03:22
9 Thomas Danielson (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:25
10 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:31
11 Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz) Pro Team Astana 0:03:35
12 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:38
13 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) Team RadioShack 0:03:44
14 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:03:50
15 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
16 Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:03:55
17 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:07
18 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:04:42
19 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:58

Their crashs could have been afected him a little, but always when he crash it is an excuse. Froome crashed last year and he won le Tour, Froome has crashed already this Tour.

Is it a question of age? Really? he was second this year in a lot of important races. I could admit he is starting to note the age, respect when he was 30. Of course in 2014 althoug he wanst so strong as Froome in Dauphine he was close and now he is not close, but in other kind of stages we will see how him is better, as the last ITT. In fact he was 8 in la Planche des Belle filles, the same time than Uran. Of course a bad performance in a perfect stage for him and a performance similar to when he had the Giro in his legs (becouse that is not a problem for him)

But you talk as there is a huge difference between 2014 and this year. and it is not so big. He is starting to decline, but in 2014 he never beated Quintana or Froome when they were at his best...just Quintana in Tirreno when he was with different objetives than Contador, not peaking, and Froome in la Vuelta becouse Froome did a bad ITT for a mistake and he wanst at his best. In le Tour he put 2 second in a mountain finish to Nibali...well, good, even I think he could have won that Tour with Froome out, but no so impressing to acept he was the stronger of that year.

In 2014 in Arrate he wanst that kind of rider who attack and make the difference as he was before his santion.

I hope he get the level this Tour to attack and make the race interesting. He is one of the few who can do it. He had the rest day to heal his bounds and this 2 no so demanding days.

In this interview before this Tour he said:
http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20170628/contador-voy-tour-ganar-no-hacer-buen-puesto/1572462.shtml

I feel very good and with lot of confidence. I am better than last year, I feel less tired after Dauphine, with better feelings day by day. I go to le Tour to win. This year route is good for me. I have still good legs and good recover. I go on while the numbers are good.

So, or he is lying as usually, becouse we didnt see that in the ITT and La Planche this year, or he doesnt agree he is clearly declining as you said.

I think reallity is an intermediate option.

Oh go away and take your cherry-picked results with you. That was one of the last stages in a Tour in which he crashed and badly injured his knee, and all that having raced a grueling Giro.

Edit: that isn't to say I completely disagree, it's true that his best results were in easier mountain stages but the result you posted is extreme and is in no way an accurate representation of his level in multi-mountain stages.

I dont know if is alowed to say always go away...I just argue, and I am gratefull after your bad word you argue. I know what is yur official argument for that Tour. I showed you why I dont admit Giro argument, and why I dont admit his knee problem is the following: Yes, that knee problem afected him till the second rest day, but not after. He was very strong the previous days to that Galibier stage, attacking in those second category climbs and putting time, but he fade in the long and hard stage, so this is not new.

 

[Carols]

Re:

IMO it is a testimony to his greatness that he can't or won't accept his decline. A real champion doesn't accept defeat but keeps fighting and he'll keep fighing until the end of the road

All the great champions do that and I've never seen it end well for them

 

[portugal11]

I thought taxus had been banned forever... how can anyone stand his long posts... quintana is the best climber in the world, landa is by far better climber than the best version of contador (2015 giro)

 

[Valv.Piti]

I also don't think you can discount the multi HC-climb day (like Chambery) in 2011 to Galibier, he was really starting to find his groove and he also showed the day after that he actually was in very good shape when he went from the gun on a stage much more suited to his abilities than the long maratona drag. Its a pattern.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I start thinking that he does not want to admit that he is almost done, or at least admit that he is no longer able to fight for victory in a TdF.
Immediately after the race, he said the crashes had a marginal role, and the next day he began to complain about them.
That day has had a bad day, it is not possible to lose 4 minutes even for a 'boiled' contador, especially after what was done in the spring. But he must finally admit to himself that the best days have gone without going into the search for unlikely excuses. Only at the beginning of the tour he said he was in shape as in 2014 when three days later he was near to be broken. As in 2013. Now day after day he is again looking for unlikely excuses, which does not honor his greatness in me.
Alberto open your eyes but above all your mind

This is exactly how I am feeling, Matteo, you just said it better and you obviously have more credibility than me on this subject since you are Contador-fan. Contador said himself that the crash didn't really affect, I saw him immediately after, his jersey was completely untouched still. No signs of no big crash. Compare that to Quintana who won on Covadonga with a broken jersey. Either you have it or you don't and unfortunately, it looks like Contador doesn't have it. Its a little frustrating that he tries to postpone the inevitably, altho I certainly do expect him do do better than he did on stage 9. He was just gassed, the stage was pure endurance in the end with relatively high tempo all day and lately that hasn't been his cup of tea. IMO, theres just nothing more to it

Yeah, correct analysis IMO. But however this shows he hasn't got that killing mentality anymore. That rockstone confidence you'll beat the **** out of them all as soon as the road goes up. I think physically he still has got something in him but all these series of misfortune somehow have gone their way into his mind.

By the way, how do you guys see his approach on the rest day, saying that he almost literally wasn't going to touch his bike. Listening to LA's podcast after stage 9 where he was saying he was always used to do two very hard hours with the whole team to prevent the body from going into rest mode, to me it seems a bit weird.

I disagree. I think he does have that mentality, but his body won't cooperate with him.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I disagree. I think he does have that mentality, but his body won't cooperate with him.

I think so as well

 

[Pennino]

Anyway this is confusing. Reading this thread, then reading the Clinic, then reading this again. Let's just hope he comes up with a good book a few years after quitting. Just a pity that, trying to make more ground with the Fundacion Contador Team, he won't have enough incentive to tell everything he knows.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I think he definitely broke a little bit mentally. Reminds me of LA in 2010 when Andy and Contador were going at it and he had a couple of crashes and he finally stopped after one and looked at his bike and you could tell mentally he was just over it. I don't think he's over it, but I do think on Stage 9 after a couple of crashes and realizing his body didn't feel well enough, whether it was due to the crashes or form or age, he just didn't have that fire that allowed him to truly suffer hard.

I also think it is ludicrous to suggest that the crashes didn't affect him. The evidence suggests otherwise. He climbed with or ahead of all comers all spring, he hadn't done too badly thus far, despite the (unfortunately correct) woeful posts, and he crashed once at 70kph in the same crash that took out Majka. And then crashed again. That'll definitely throw your form off.

I think he can still continue to be competitive in 1-week races but the inevitable issues that crop up on GTs seem to be a bit too much for him now.

However, his legacy is intact. His peak was magnificent, and he is still riding at the very tippy top of professional cycling. I am glad he is continuing to ride. I hope he does something beautiful in the rest of the race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think he definitely broke a little bit mentally. Reminds me of LA in 2010 when Andy and Contador were going at it and he had a couple of crashes and he finally stopped after one and looked at his bike and you could tell mentally he was just over it. I don't think he's over it, but I do think on Stage 9 after a couple of crashes and realizing his body didn't feel well enough, whether it was due to the crashes or form or age, he just didn't have that fire that allowed him to truly suffer hard.

Yeah

Whatever was the reason for his time loss, I think it was a really hard hit for him to realize he lost any chance he had to win the Tour. He must have known it was slipping away while he was still riding.

 

[DanielSong39]

Hoping he can ST with the GC contenders in stages 12 and 13 then pull off an ambush in stage 14 or 15.

Even if successful he can only hope for a top 5, but at least it would make the race more interesting.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I really don't see anything happening on stage 14

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

I really don't see anything happening on stage 14

Yeah no chance; that's a puncher vs sprinter or breakaway stage

 

[No_Balls]

He have looked a bit broken the entire time prior to the crashes if you ask me. The answers he have given about his form, sensations and such have been dubious and not convincing. At the same time he (and the people around him) have looked a bit tense and he haven't been smiling a very lot. Its very big giveaways right there.

When you are adding the pieces together, coupled with him not looking too convincing on the bike, while at the same time not giving his usual self-confidence you know something was wrong very early.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re: Re:

I really don't see anything happening on stage 14

Yeah no chance; that's a puncher vs sprinter or breakaway stage

Sunweb and BMC will control that stage.

 

[lenric]

Re:

I thought taxus had been banned forever... how can anyone stand his long posts... quintana is the best climber in the world, landa is by far better climber than the best version of contador (2015 giro)

I can stand them, even though I don't agree with them. Maybe if you learn to ignore, instead of writing this kind of posts, you'll be better off.


Anyway, it was obvious he was declining. Just look at last year's Vuelta. That was some major eye-opening performance in a "bad" way. This year's Tour just confirmed it again.
Every rider declines. Let him realize it, instead of getting excuses for everything.

 

[rune1107]

Crashed again

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Unbelievable...

 

[Carols]

 

[arvc40]

Not really much to say !. Kind of expect it now and treat it as its any other non GC threat.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I thought taxus had been banned forever... how can anyone stand his long posts... quintana is the best climber in the world, landa is by far better climber than the best version of contador (2015 giro)

I can stand them, even though I don't agree with them. Maybe if you learn to ignore, instead of writing this kind of posts, you'll be better off.


Anyway, it was obvious he was declining. Just look at last year's Vuelta. That was some major eye-opening performance in a "bad" way. This year's Tour just confirmed it again.
Every rider declines. Let him realize it, instead of getting excuses for everything.

Someone has to stop this... the guy is a permanent troller. I already ignore him a few times but he continues to write the same thing again and again and again...

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

I thought taxus had been banned forever... how can anyone stand his long posts... quintana is the best climber in the world, landa is by far better climber than the best version of contador (2015 giro)

I can stand them, even though I don't agree with them. Maybe if you learn to ignore, instead of writing this kind of posts, you'll be better off.


Anyway, it was obvious he was declining. Just look at last year's Vuelta. That was some major eye-opening performance in a "bad" way. This year's Tour just confirmed it again.
Every rider declines. Let him realize it, instead of getting excuses for everything.

Someone has to stop this... the guy is a permanent troller. I already ignore him a few times but he continues to write the same thing again and again and again...

Then ignore and report it.
Either way, if he's constantly writing the same thing, then there's consistency in his opinion, which isn't a sign of trolling.

 

[buchanan]

Last year's Vuelta was the big wake up call that he could no longer compete with the very best in the mountains. He was fresh and had a decent lead up to that Vuelta, even winning a smaller stage race shortly before. But still he couldn't hold his own with Froome and Quintana - who both should have been relatively fatigued after their Tour de France campaigns.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Again...! He looked annoyed more than anything