Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[arvc40]

Looking forward to Contador being highly unpredictable in suitable stages ahead. Will make race difficult for others for sure

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

So he says he hopes he will recover when they hit the Alps... not the Pyrenees? Either he is overplaying his injuries or he genuinely got very hurt.

His plan was always to peak for the Alps, so perhaps the injuries despite being minor set him back in such a way that he feels he won't be able to compete in the Pyrenees.
I expect him to attack in the Pyrenees anyway as he has nothing to lose but hopefully he will be strong enough in the Alps to fight for a stage win.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I love how this thread has people calling Contador irrelevant when they try and use his name to talk their own riders up, rather then just go in their thread.

I also love that people take previously mentioned people seriously.

he is irrelevant to Froome

Maybe before, but the last couple of years Bertie has been an irrelevance to Froome

Yeah, "Bertie" sure was an irrelevance to Froome last Vuelta..!

What is your point?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, okay that makes sense. He is probably a but hurting, psychically but maybe also a bit psychologically after that stage. Hard to come back from such a big blow. I hope he will find his legs and I think he will attack hard on stage 13 (which I don't hope, he can attack on every other stage...) But that probably is his best bet as he has been better at shorter stages recently (I don't know if thats a complete coincidence, I don't think it is)

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Yeah, okay that makes sense. He is probably a but hurting, psychically but maybe also a bit psychologically after that stage. Hard to come back from such a big blow. I hope he will find his legs and I think he will attack hard on stage 13 (which I don't hope, he can attack on every other stage...) But that probably is his best bet as he has been better at shorter stages recently (I don't know if thats a complete coincidence, I don't think it is)

You're right. Shorter stages are best for him now because he doesn't have the endurance/stamina anymore

 

[Netserk]

Let's just remember that from the same crash Majka also didn't break anything, but he was still so hurt that he quitted the day after.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Let's just remember that from the same crash Majka also didn't break anything, but he was still so hurt that he quitted the day after.

Yeah but his entire body was battered and bruised. For Berto is was just his elbow and knee. But it's always hard to say how much a crash affects the performance of a rider, which is why it's so frustrating he went down. Now we still don't know what he's really worth.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Let's just remember that from the same crash Majka also didn't break anything, but he was still so hurt that he quitted the day after.

Yeah but his entire body was battered and bruised. For Berto is was just his elbow and knee. But it's always hard to say how much a crash affects the performance of a rider, which is why it's so frustrating he went down. Now we still don't know what he's really worth.

Good points. Even though I don't think he would have won this years TDF (he didn't look good on PDBF), I think the reason why he lost 4 mins was the crash. So he will probably get dropped again and again since he is injured.

 

[Valv.Piti]

There should be plenty of room for him to show his 'real' level. If not in the Pyrenées (since he apparently don't think he will be a factor there?), then for sure in the Alps. The crash simply couldn't have been that bad.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Riding the Tour de France is usually not the best way to recover from injuries.

 

[Matteo.]

I start thinking that he does not want to admit that he is almost done, or at least admit that he is no longer able to fight for victory in a TdF.
Immediately after the race, he said the crashes had a marginal role, and the next day he began to complain about them.
That day has had a bad day, it is not possible to lose 4 minutes even for a 'boiled' contador, especially after what was done in the spring. But he must finally admit to himself that the best days have gone without going into the search for unlikely excuses. Only at the beginning of the tour he said he was in shape as in 2014 when three days later he was near to be broken. As in 2013. Now day after day he is again looking for unlikely excuses, which does not honor his greatness in me.
Alberto open your eyes but above all your mind

 

[LaFlorecita]

IMO it is a testimony to his greatness that he can't or won't accept his decline. A real champion doesn't accept defeat but keeps fighting and he'll keep fighing until the end of the road

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re:

IMO it is a testimony to his greatness that he can't or won't accept his decline. A real champion doesn't accept defeat but keeps fighting and he'll keep fighing until the end of the road

Like the black knight...
https://youtu.be/zKhEw7nD9C4

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I start thinking that he does not want to admit that he is almost done, or at least admit that he is no longer able to fight for victory in a TdF.
Immediately after the race, he said the crashes had a marginal role, and the next day he began to complain about them.
That day has had a bad day, it is not possible to lose 4 minutes even for a 'boiled' contador, especially after what was done in the spring. But he must finally admit to himself that the best days have gone without going into the search for unlikely excuses. Only at the beginning of the tour he said he was in shape as in 2014 when three days later he was near to be broken. As in 2013. Now day after day he is again looking for unlikely excuses, which does not honor his greatness in me.
Alberto open your eyes but above all your mind

This is exactly how I am feeling, Matteo, you just said it better and you obviously have more credibility than me on this subject since you are Contador-fan. Contador said himself that the crash didn't really affect, I saw him immediately after, his jersey was completely untouched still. No signs of no big crash. Compare that to Quintana who won on Covadonga with a broken jersey. Either you have it or you don't and unfortunately, it looks like Contador doesn't have it. Its a little frustrating that he tries to postpone the inevitably, altho I certainly do expect him do do better than he did on stage 9. He was just gassed, the stage was pure endurance in the end with relatively high tempo all day and lately that hasn't been his cup of tea. IMO, theres just nothing more to it

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

Yeah, okay that makes sense. He is probably a but hurting, psychically but maybe also a bit psychologically after that stage. Hard to come back from such a big blow. I hope he will find his legs and I think he will attack hard on stage 13 (which I don't hope, he can attack on every other stage...) But that probably is his best bet as he has been better at shorter stages recently (I don't know if thats a complete coincidence, I don't think it is)

You're right. Shorter stages are best for him now because he doesn't have the endurance/stamina anymore

Hmm interesting thought. I'd rather say shorter stages aren't that favorable to him because of the higher explosiveness that is required there. The more exhausted they get, the more dangerous Alberto will become.

Or at least that's my feeling about it.

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

I start thinking that he does not want to admit that he is almost done, or at least admit that he is no longer able to fight for victory in a TdF.
Immediately after the race, he said the crashes had a marginal role, and the next day he began to complain about them.
That day has had a bad day, it is not possible to lose 4 minutes even for a 'boiled' contador, especially after what was done in the spring. But he must finally admit to himself that the best days have gone without going into the search for unlikely excuses. Only at the beginning of the tour he said he was in shape as in 2014 when three days later he was near to be broken. As in 2013. Now day after day he is again looking for unlikely excuses, which does not honor his greatness in me.
Alberto open your eyes but above all your mind

This is exactly how I am feeling, Matteo, you just said it better and you obviously have more credibility than me on this subject since you are Contador-fan. Contador said himself that the crash didn't really affect, I saw him immediately after, his jersey was completely untouched still. No signs of no big crash. Compare that to Quintana who won on Covadonga with a broken jersey. Either you have it or you don't and unfortunately, it looks like Contador doesn't have it. Its a little frustrating that he tries to postpone the inevitably, altho I certainly do expect him do do better than he did on stage 9. He was just gassed, the stage was pure endurance in the end with relatively high tempo all day and lately that hasn't been his cup of tea. IMO, theres just nothing more to it

Yeah, correct analysis IMO. But however this shows he hasn't got that killing mentality anymore. That rockstone confidence you'll beat the *** out of them all as soon as the road goes up. I think physically he still has got something in him but all these series of misfortune somehow have gone their way into his mind.

By the way, how do you guys see his approach on the rest day, saying that he almost literally wasn't going to touch his bike. Listening to LA's podcast after stage 9 where he was saying he was always used to do two very hard hours with the whole team to prevent the body from going into rest mode, to me it seems a bit weird.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Yeah, okay that makes sense. He is probably a but hurting, psychically but maybe also a bit psychologically after that stage. Hard to come back from such a big blow. I hope he will find his legs and I think he will attack hard on stage 13 (which I don't hope, he can attack on every other stage...) But that probably is his best bet as he has been better at shorter stages recently (I don't know if thats a complete coincidence, I don't think it is)

You're right. Shorter stages are best for him now because he doesn't have the endurance/stamina anymore

Hmm interesting thought. I'd rather say shorter stages aren't that favorable to him because of the higher explosiveness that is required there. The more exhausted they get, the more dangerous Alberto will become.

Or at least that's my feeling about it.

I'd say he has been at his best recently on short stage (3 - 3,5 hours), P-N is the best example where he has been flying both times and looked like the 'old' Contador. He has also done very well on the shorter and very difficult time trials, particularly in Pais Vasco, but remember Dauphine as well? Then you can add Formigal and Alpe d' Huez.

Compare that to really tough mountain stages like Chambery, when is the last time he has been going really well? Its probably Mortirolo, over 2 years ago.

 

[LaFlorecita]

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

The only thing you can make of that is pretty much a lack of endurance.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

The only thing you can make of that is pretty much a lack of endurance.

Well, that's my thought as well and it could also explain why his data in training and lab tests is still good (if that isn't a lie). The km leading up to a climb are just tougher on his legs now than they used to be, especially if they are raced hard.

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

Yeah, okay that makes sense. He is probably a but hurting, psychically but maybe also a bit psychologically after that stage. Hard to come back from such a big blow. I hope he will find his legs and I think he will attack hard on stage 13 (which I don't hope, he can attack on every other stage...) But that probably is his best bet as he has been better at shorter stages recently (I don't know if thats a complete coincidence, I don't think it is)

You're right. Shorter stages are best for him now because he doesn't have the endurance/stamina anymore

Hmm interesting thought. I'd rather say shorter stages aren't that favorable to him because of the higher explosiveness that is required there. The more exhausted they get, the more dangerous Alberto will become.

Or at least that's my feeling about it.

I'd say he has been at his best recently on short stage (3 - 3,5 hours), P-N is the best example where he has been flying both times and looked like the 'old' Contador. He has also done very well on the shorter and very difficult time trials, particularly in Pais Vasco, but remember Dauphine as well? Then you can add Formigal and Alpe d' Huez.

Compare that to really tough mountain stages like Chambery, when is the last time he has been going really well? Its probably Mortirolo, over 2 years ago.

Yeah, true. But still that's different. When everybody is fresh and just sitting in line behind the Skybots he seems to lack that leg speed in the finale. And his hard attacks from far out are turning a short stage into a monster exercise IMO.

So maybe we can say: when everybody is all-in, a shorter stage is a good opportunity. But when sitting and waiting, maybe he needs more mountains in one stage (therefore it's not a question 100km or 200km, it's rather a question of Climbing kilometres).

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

The only thing you can make of that is pretty much a lack of endurance.

Putting the hammer down almost right from the start all the way to the finish line, short stage or not, requires a lot more endurance than a couple of hours sitting and waiting behind the British Blue Boys don't you think?

But it's just frustrating. My confidence in his connection with Steven de Jongh has also suffered a significant blow.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

What happened the other day is not new, in the maximun level of rivals, in a long hard mountain stage with battle from far, he use to fade.

1 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 6:07:56
2 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 0:02:07
3 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:02:15
4 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:02:18
5 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:21
6 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:27
7 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:02:33
8 Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:03:22
9 Thomas Danielson (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:25
10 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:31
11 Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz) Pro Team Astana 0:03:35
12 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:38
13 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) Team RadioShack 0:03:44
14 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:03:50
15 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
16 Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:03:55
17 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:07
18 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:04:42
19 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:58

Their crashs could have been afected him a little, but always when he crash it is an excuse. Froome crashed last year and he won le Tour, Froome has crashed already this Tour.

Is it a question of age? Really? he was second this year in a lot of important races. I could admit he is starting to note the age, respect when he was 30. Of course in 2014 althoug he wanst so strong as Froome in Dauphine he was close and now he is not close, but in other kind of stages we will see how him is better, as the last ITT. In fact he was 8 in la Planche des Belle filles, the same time than Uran. Of course a bad performance in a perfect stage for him and a performance similar to when he had the Giro in his legs (becouse that is not a problem for him)

But you talk as there is a huge difference between 2014 and this year. and it is not so big. He is starting to decline, but in 2014 he never beated Quintana or Froome when they were at his best...just Quintana in Tirreno when he was with different objetives than Contador, not peaking, and Froome in la Vuelta becouse Froome did a bad ITT for a mistake and he wanst at his best. In le Tour he put 2 second in a mountain finish to Nibali...well, good, even I think he could have won that Tour with Froome out, but no so impressing to acept he was the stronger of that year.

In 2014 in Arrate he wanst that kind of rider who attack and make the difference as he was before his santion.

I hope he get the level this Tour to attack and make the race interesting. He is one of the few who can do it. He had the rest day to heal his bounds and this 2 no so demanding days.

In this interview before this Tour he said:
http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20170628/contador-voy-tour-ganar-no-hacer-buen-puesto/1572462.shtml

I feel very good and with lot of confidence. I am better than last year, I feel less tired after Dauphine, with better feelings day by day. I go to le Tour to win. This year route is good for me. I have still good legs and good recover. I go on while the numbers are good.

So, or he is lying as usually, becouse we didnt see that in the ITT and La Planche this year, or he doesnt agree he is clearly declining as you said.

I think reallity is an intermediate option.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

IMO it is a testimony to his greatness that he can't or won't accept his decline. A real champion doesn't accept defeat but keeps fighting and he'll keep fighing until the end of the road

Alberto wants to keep believing in his chances himself, and so a part of that is to believe that the crashes had a greater effect than they may have had. In a way he needs to think like this, to at least go into the next mountain stages with a semi positive mindset.

I hope that he rides sensibly on stage 12 and just stays with the GC guys for as long as possible. Maybe he still loses four minutes. Or maybe he shows improvement, and loses less than a minute, or surprisingly does even a little better.

Then I want to see the slightly crazy early attack on stage 13. Everyone will be expecting it, but they still have to deal with it. Perhaps after which point he can be up to 5th or 6th in the GC, and the less riders that are ahead of him, the more that we can dream in week three.

Maybe he doesn't have great endurance in general for GT's now, and maybe that is a part of his failing on stage 9. That was the ninth day of racing in a row; the next two blocks of racing are only six days long, and the hard stages are not at the end of those weeks. With sufficient recovery on the rest days, perhaps we will see Contador's stage 5 level as more the norm for the rest of the race.

Here's hoping.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

His most impressive performances in recent years have been in hilly/mountainous time trials and shorter stages, somehow he hasn't been able to replicate that form after many long hours in the saddle. Make of that what you will.

What happened the other day is not new, in the maximun level of rivals, in a long hard mountain stage with battle from far, he use to fade.

1 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 6:07:56
2 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 0:02:07
3 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:02:15
4 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:02:18
5 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:21
6 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:02:27
7 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:02:33
8 Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:03:22
9 Thomas Danielson (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:25
10 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:31
11 Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz) Pro Team Astana 0:03:35
12 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:03:38
13 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) Team RadioShack 0:03:44
14 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:03:50
15 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
16 Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:03:55
17 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:07
18 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:04:42
19 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:58

Their crashs could have been afected him a little, but always when he crash it is an excuse. Froome crashed last year and he won le Tour, Froome has crashed already this Tour.

Is it a question of age? Really? he was second this year in a lot of important races. I could admit he is starting to note the age, respect when he was 30. Of course in 2014 althoug he wanst so strong as Froome in Dauphine he was close and now he is not close, but in other kind of stages we will see how him is better, as the last ITT. In fact he was 8 in la Planche des Belle filles, the same time than Uran. Of course a bad performance in a perfect stage for him and a performance similar to when he had the Giro in his legs (becouse that is not a problem for him)

But you talk as there is a huge difference between 2014 and this year. and it is not so big. He is starting to decline, but in 2014 he never beated Quintana or Froome when they were at his best...just Quintana in Tirreno when he was with different objetives than Contador, not peaking, and Froome in la Vuelta becouse Froome did a bad ITT for a mistake and he wanst at his best. In le Tour he put 2 second in a mountain finish to Nibali...well, good, even I think he could have won that Tour with Froome out, but no so impressing to acept he was the stronger of that year.

In 2014 in Arrate he wanst that kind of rider who attack and make the difference as he was before his santion.

I hope he get the level this Tour to attack and make the race interesting. He is one of the few who can do it. He had the rest day to heal his bounds and this 2 no so demanding days.

In this interview before this Tour he said:
http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20170628/contador-voy-tour-ganar-no-hacer-buen-puesto/1572462.shtml

I feel very good and with lot of confidence. I am better than last year, I feel less tired after Dauphine, with better feelings day by day. I go to le Tour to win. This year route is good for me. I have still good legs and good recover. I go on while the numbers are good.

So, or he is lying as usually, becouse we didnt see that in the ITT and La Planche this year, or he doesnt agree he is clearly declining as you said.

I think reallity is an intermediate option.

Oh go away and take your cherry-picked results with you. That was one of the last stages in a Tour in which he crashed and badly injured his knee, and all that having raced a grueling Giro.

Edit: that isn't to say I completely disagree, it's true that his best results were in easier mountain stages but the result you posted is extreme and is in no way an accurate representation of his level in multi-mountain stages.