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Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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serfla

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nikohale said:
Wiggins is not a factor. I doubt he will win the Giro even if Contador doesn't ride. I wonder where does all this Wiggo hype come from?
Maybe the hype comes from 2012 TDF.
But it could also come from the whole last season... Or since he started to improve on the road from season to season.
The hype could come from the opposite direction as well. From his rivals' fading form, for example.
As you can see, sources of the hype are numerous.
 

serfla

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nikohale said:
WOW. He won the Tour without Contador and Schleck, with underpar Evans and on the wheel of his better team mate Froome, and of course in a course of so many TTs! Very good this Wiggo! :)
Yes. You're probably right.
TDF is often won by accident.
For example, Contador has won his first only after suspension of some notable favorites and exclusion of others. His second victory came after disobedience to team hierarchy. Evans has won his heavily defending, without a single attack. More over, there's Sastre's victory, as well as Pereiro's. And don't forget Schleck's one obtained by the green table.

On second thought, TDF is pure lottery.
 
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nikohale said:
WOW. He won the Tour without Contador and Schleck, with underpar Evans and on the wheel of his better team mate Froome, and of course in a course of so many TTs! Very good this Wiggo! :)

He won't meet any of them in the Giro either. :eek: Contador could still show up there suddenly ofc.
However Nibali, Sanchez, Hesjedal etc. will never match Wiggins in his 2012 shape. His Giro support is probably the best one out there too.
 

airstream

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In my view, some Contador fans has one phobia: they think the strength of the field is defined by Contador's presence exceptionally. It is not the case. A GT spectacle is Contador surely. But spectacle ≠ strength ≠ effectiveness. I don't know on what overly emotional level one should take cycling in order not to understand this.

Wiggins beat other guys probably with a bigger or the same edge in comparison how Contador did it in 2009. He smashed Nibali who IMO rode his stronger Grand Tour so far? And you dare say that he is not a factor just because Contador and Schleck were not there? In what year are you living?
 

serfla

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airstream said:
In my view, some Contador fans has one phobia: they think the strength of the field is defined by Contador's presence exceptionally. It is not the case.

Wiggins beat other guys probably with a bigger or the same edge in comparison how Contador did it in 2009? He smashed Nibali who IMO rode his stronger Grand Tour so far? And you dare say that he is not a factor just because Contador and Schleck were not there? In what year are you living?
Everything evolves around Contador.
He's absolute point of reference for every categorical judgement. Even more, his presence determines existence of every important cycling quality in certain race, and often existence of a race itself.
 
serfla said:
Everything evolves around Contador.
He's absolute point of reference for every categorical judgement. Even more, his presence determines existence of every important cycling quality in certain race, and often existence of a race itself.

For some maybe; for many that post here simply Not True and I'm tired of being lumped in with the few :(
 
Publicus said:
Perhaps we can table the discussion of how AC wilts before the awesomeness that is "High Tempo" Wiggo until AC declares that he is actually riding the Giro.

From both their published schedules they will have the opportunity to check each other out prior to the Giro.

AC will ride the Giro IF he thinks he can pull off the double and Riis is on board. Personally I don't want him to try it, but if he does both races will become more interesting due to his style of racing.
 
serfla said:
Everything evolves around Contador.
He's absolute point of reference for every categorical judgement. Even more, his presence determines existence of every important cycling quality in certain race, and often existence of a race itself.

Perhaps you lost your way. You do realize this is the ALBERTO CONTADOR DISCUSSION thread? So that may explain why "everything [in this thread] evolves [sic] around Contador" and that "he's [sic] absolute point of reference for every categorical judgement [discussed in this thread]. Even more, [in discussions in this thread] his presence determines existence of every important cycling quality in certain race [sic], and often existence of a race itself." :rolleyes:
 
Carols said:
From both their published schedules they will have the opportunity to check each other out prior to the Giro.

AC will ride the Giro IF he thinks he can pull off the double and Riis is on board. Personally I don't want him to try it, but if he does both races will become more interesting due to his style of racing.

I'm mostly with you on this. Plus I'd like to see Majka get full support at the Giro to see what he can do.
 

serfla

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Carols said:
From both their published schedules they will have the opportunity to check each other out prior to the Giro.

AC will ride the Giro IF he thinks he can pull off the double and Riis is on board. Personally I don't want him to try it, but if he does both races will become more interesting due to his style of racing.
They'll have the chance to throw down the gauntlets.
My previous remarks about champions' manners go to both directions. Wiggins should provoke Contador to ride the Giro, and Contador should prove it's not necessary... In circumstances where Contador hasn't decided yet, off course.
Interesting thing is that itt is considered like discipline where Wiggins will make substantial advantage. I'm of that opinion too. But Riis knows a thing or two about time trialing. Just remember Basso.
So, Contador and Riis shouldn't hesitate to confront the Wiggins and Sky in the Giro.
 

serfla

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Publicus said:
Perhaps you lost your way. You do realize this is the ALBERTO CONTADOR DISCUSSION thread? So that may explain why "everything [in this thread] evolves [sic] around Contador" and that "he's [sic] absolute point of reference for every categorical judgement [discussed in this thread]. Even more, [in discussions in this thread] his presence determines existence of every important cycling quality in certain race [sic], and often existence of a race itself." :rolleyes:
You're so funny!
 
serfla said:
Interesting thing is that itt is considered like discipline where Wiggins will make substantial advantage. I'm of that opinion too. But Riis knows a thing or two about time trialing. Just remember Basso.
So, Contador and Riis shouldn't hesitate to confront the Wiggins and Sky in the Giro.

I agree that Wiggo is a better ITTer; no dispute here. Alberto can hold his own in that discipline but IMO Wiggins will take time there.

The question for me is whether riding the Giro will jeopardize Bertie's chances in le Tour. I think they will and therefore would rather he not attempt the double.

If you look at my previous posts on the subject I've made it clear I think it is a Big Ask to take on Wiggo and all the others peaking for the Giro and a month later take on Froome and all the others peaking for le Tour.

But if he thinks he can do it, more power to him. He will put on a show trying!
 

airstream

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For me, Contador alongside with Luis Leon Sanchez maybe were always the smartest riders in terms of ability to estimate themselves objectively. And I'm just wondering whether Contador really thinks that there is abysm between him and others and the double is a real thing or it is just a tricky game to try to push the opponents. This year's double will be harder than in 2011.

The double implies irreal edge both in climbing and TT'ing since for the victory in the Tour, the Giro should be won in a canter, with a lot of energy in tank left. Is this possible? I don't know.
 
serfla said:
You're so funny!

Thanks! It's relatively easy when I have such quality source material with which to work. So I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge your critical role in our collective chuckle. Chapeau Serfla! :p

In all seriousness, AC is well aware of Wiggins' qualities on the bike. Even back in the 2009 Tour, he knew that Wiggins had a monster TT and that he would need to put more time into him ahead of the Annecy time trial. I think folks forget that besides his prowess on the climbs, AC's biggest strength is his ability to recover, which is why I think he was better than Cancellara and others who normally best him that day in July 2009 (that and the TT course was favorable to him).
 
airstream said:
For me, Contador alongside with Luis Leon Sanchez maybe were always the smartest riders in terms of ability to estimate themselves objectively. And I'm just wondering whether Contador really thinks that there is abysm between him and others and the double is a real thing or it is just a tricky game to try to push the opponents. This year's double will be harder than in 2011.

The double implies irreal edge both in climbing and TT'ing since for the victory in the Tour, the Giro should be won in a canter, with a lot of energy in tank left. Is this possible? I don't know.

Just based on his approach to each race, I don't believe he thinks there is any great chasm between his talent level and any of his primary competitors. He seems to recognize that to be successful requires a tremendous amount of work and luck, which he didn't have in the 2012 Tour.

I do disagree that the double would be harder this year, compared with 2012. The 2011 Giro course was a monster; the 2012 Giro course is far tamer. That being said, I don't know if he will have the energy to compete at a high level at both. The folks that line up for the Giro will do so to win (and so will AC if he lines up) and we know everyone will bring their A-game for the Tour. I don't know if it is worth it...
 

serfla

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Carols said:
I agree that Wiggo is a better ITTer; no dispute here. Alberto can hold his own in that discipline but IMO Wiggins will take time there.

The question for me is whether riding the Giro will jeopardize Bertie's chances in le Tour. I think they will and therefore would rather he not attempt the double.

If you look at my previous posts on the subject I've made it clear I think it is a Big Ask to take on Wiggo and all the others peaking for the Giro and a month later take on Froome and all the others peaking for le Tour.

But if he thinks he can do it, more power to him. He will put on a show trying!
Speaking of the double - yes, it's big ask. It will be very demanding to race against 100% Wiggo. But when we speak about the Tour, I think there won't be a rider prepared like Wiggins. It's not rational to expect from Andy to turn to his best form already this year, and I don't rate Froome so high despite his remarkable showings in previous two seasons. I've already written about his lack of racing sense, and designating him for the team's Tour leader will carry additional pressure, especially if things don't develop according to Sky's expectations in the Giro.
The point is - Contador can win the Tour with worse form than that in the Giro this year. And that's why I think this season is good for the double.
 

airstream

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Publicus said:
I do disagree that the double would be harder this year, compared with 2012. The 2011 Giro course was a monster
However it was partially simplified with the fact that Contador had a fight against parcours rather than riders on the road. Very tight contention on an easier parcours demands more effort than riding on tough course with huge advantage. What do you think on that?

Tougher resistance on easier cource may require a bigger effort? Or you don't see options for tougher resistance?
 
serfla said:
Speaking of the double - yes, it's big ask. It will be very demanding to race against 100% Wiggo.

I agree. He will need to use all his skill, race tactics, and a lot of energy to dispatch Wiggins. Wiggins is likely to be leading very late in the race. In other words it is liable to deplete reserves he needed for le Tour.

I don't rate Froome so high despite his remarkable showings in previous two seasons. I've already written about his lack of racing sense, and designating him for the team's Tour leader will carry additional pressure, especially if things don't develop according to Sky's expectations in the Giro.
The point is - Contador can win the Tour with worse form than that in the Giro this year. And that's why I think this season is good for the double.

Hummm, this is a perspective I haven't thought about. Froome seems Very Dangerous to me. But indeed he might not be able to handle the pressure or have the race sense developed yet. Interesting, I will need to think on this.

I'd just prefer that Alberto not come into le Tour tired and below peak. There are still others; Purito, Evans (I don't think he's done yet), Andy not for the win but to stretch Bertie's limits where he can, etc. Can Alberto really win it coming in below par?
 

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Carols said:
Can Alberto really win it coming in below par?
Although rhetorically lined, I'll say it depends how much the suspension took out of him.
If Vuelta is reliable indicator, then he can't.
But he works with good manager. That's exceptionally important.
I think Riis can match Sky's logistics. And that's important for this season.
 
Contadoraus Schlecks said:
His TT level last year was also on a level that Contador has never been able to achieve. This no doubt concerns AC.

Are you kidding me? Alberto knows Wiggins is on another level when it comes to tt and Alberto knows there is no way in hell that he'll ever achieve this level. I mean, duh. It doesn't concern him. He's on a whole other level in the mountains.
 

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