Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[airstream]

This is what he said a few minutes ago:



Classic Airstream.

You have a very unattractive manner to discuss 'cos you ignore anything you dislike. You convinced to yourself prejudice 'Contador dropping anyone is ok, on form. Any other scenario - ah, it is off form Contador' and that's it.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I am agreeing wih Airstream on some points here. If AC looses this years tour without any accidents, then the "he was off form" argument can no longer work. Sure, maybe he did not reach his max potensial (tour 10) but off form is no longer a valid argument. Secondly, the fact that noone got Froomes wattage output (??) is not needed to make some sort of valid guess on what he did in for an example last years tour

 

[Miburo]

I am agreeing wih Airstream on some points here. If AC looses this years tour without any accidents, then the "he was off form" argument can no longer work. Sure, maybe he did not reach his max potensial (tour 10) but off form is no longer a valid argument. Secondly, the fact that noone got Froomes wattage output (??) is not needed to make some sort of valid guess on what he did in for an example last years tour

Of course, there are no excuses this year for Contador in tour besides breaking something orso of course. Did anyone ever question that?

Second of all i'm not questioning Froome's high wattages in last year's tour but Airstream made a claim it was higher than Contador's so i wanted to compare it with what Contador did at the etna but Airstream didn't have the numbers

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Of course, there are no excuses this year for Contador in tour besides breaking something orso of course. Did anyone ever question that?

Second of all i'm not questioning Froome's high wattages in last year's tour but Airstream made a claim it was higher than Contador's so i wanted to compare it with what Contador did at the etna but Airstream didn't have the numbers

ok

..........

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ok show me the numbers. You make a claim Froome is more impressive, thus show me the numbers.

Btw if I remember correctly laflo posted here a few days ago some very impressive wattage numbers of Contador on the etna. Let's compare that with what you got for froome

It seems now you accepted that Contador can be back at his former level of the giro but Froome will even surpass that. Kinda flip floppy isn't it?

Let's compare this. Froome wasn't great in the vuelta because of the tour, right? He couldn't do anything anymore in the last week. Now compare that to Contador in the tour of 2011 after riding an insanely hard giro where without any bad luck he could have easily reached the podium and i still think he might have won it but would be tough. And the tour had a stronger wider field than the vuelta. Go ahead.

Now when the hell did Lance helped out Contador on the road? Contador has done more for lance than the reserve. He even gave up a stage victory at the ventoux for it.

Alberto pushed 6.9W/kg on Etna with head wind. He won 19" per km

 

[serfla]

Alberto pushed 6.9W/kg on Etna with head wind. He won 19" per km

What does power on pedals has to do with head wind?

 

[LaFlorecita]

W/kg isn't measured on the pedals so in reality the power he pushed was probably even higher.

 

[airstream]

Let's compare this. Froome wasn't great in the vuelta because of the tour, right? He couldn't do anything anymore in the last week. Now compare that to Contador in the tour of 2011 after riding an insanely hard giro where without any bad luck he could have easily reached the podium and i still think he might have won it but would be tough. And the tour had a stronger wider field than the vuelta. Go ahead.

Yes, these situations are comparable. The Giro-Tour is harder than Tour-Vuelta in the general case, though given the 2012 field and parcours, the Olympic games and shortened break, I wouldn't call this difference significant.

A knee problem is a very contradictory theme, it was rather absent than present, but ok. Contador lost 1'05 (?) due to bad luck on stage 1. 1'05 was entire unfair loss. The Pyrenees were passed in overly defensive mode. I don't know how you handle this, but probably you treat it like a huge luck for opponents because Contador couldn't attack. My opinion Contador really got lucky and Andy's lack of initiative and willingness to win the Tour for Frank played for Contador hugely. Next we have a heroic escape from Contador, Evans and Sanchez. Yes, it was spectacular. And then Contador could pretend for the podium, but only the most devoted fans like you could believe he would win. Then was Galibier and there is nothing to comment. Alpe-d'Huez stage gave a huge show, but in all fairness one should admit that Schleck's and Evans' positions were not under strike for a moment. On the final ascent they simply let Contador go 'cos he didn't interest them. Could Contador win that Tour on leftover of Giro form? I don't think so. And very likely only big fans can think differently.

I have nothing new to say about the Vuelta. All that stuff was discussed multiple times. Froome was simply switched in the week 3, because there were fierce battles on the front. In order to compare these cases properly, it would be great to put fatigued Contador between 3 attackers and look what will happen, but sadly it is impossible.

Well I agree Contador did this combo better (though their final spots have the same sum) and probably he can ride 2 GT's in a year better.

But to ride 2 GT's better ≠ to ride the big one better. It is 2 different things.

 

[will10]

What does power on pedals has to do with head wind?

Nothing whatsoever. The time will be slower for the same power. Although it's often 'easier' to squeeze out an extra watt or two when there's headwind.

W/kg isn't measured on the pedals so in reality the power he pushed was probably even higher.

lol. Clueless.

 

[serfla]

W/kg isn't measured on the pedals so in reality the power he pushed was probably even higher.

How is it measured?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nothing whatsoever. The time will be slower for the same power. Although it's often 'easier' to squeeze out an extra watt or two when there's headwind.

lol. Clueless.

What clueless? The time is slower so the calculated w/kg is lower.

 

[LaFlorecita]

How is it measured?

It isn't measured it's calculated.

 

[serfla]

Nothing whatsoever. The time will be slower for the same power. Although it's often 'easier' to squeeze out an extra watt or two when there's headwind.

Yes, I know.
I'm just wondering if LaFlo knows that too, or is it just another way of glorification.

 

[will10]

It isn't measured it's calculated.

Ah right. I'll drop Alberto a line and tell him not to bother with those SRMs then.

 

[serfla]

It isn't measured it's calculated.

Climb time/vertical gain or some similar methodology?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

How is it measured?

azz pressure on the saddle if Ullrich, elbow torque if Froome and pedals to the metal for everyone else.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ah right. I'll drop Alberto a line and tell him not to bother with those SRMs then.

The 6.9 w/kg i mentioned were calculated by ferrari, this is what were talking about not about the w/kg his srm measured so head wind does matter.

 

[Miburo]

The 6.9 w/kg i mentioned were calculated by ferrari, this is what were talking about not about the w/kg his srm measured so head wind does matter.

Ferrari? Oh

 

[will10]

The 6.9 w/kg i mentioned were calculated by ferrari, this is what were talking about not about the w/kg his srm measured so head wind does matter.

Ferrari calculated that Contador did 6.87w/kg for 6 and a half minutes, between 6km to go and 3km to go. Impressive nonetheless, but you gave the impression (deliberately or otherwise) that the quoted figure was for the whole climb.

 

[maltiv]

The 6.9 w/kg i mentioned were calculated by ferrari, this is what were talking about not about the w/kg his srm measured so head wind does matter.

Ferrari's calculations have on several occasions been proven to be extremely exaggerated and inaccurate.

 

[Ferminal]

lol don't listen to Ferrari he can't even measure the time and height change properly.

 

[airstream]

lol don't listen to Ferrari he can't even measure the time and height change properly.

What can we believe then?

 

[Netserk]

What can we believe then?

Power files.

 

[airstream]

Power files.

The main problem is an ascent goes full blast very rarely.

 

[element]

...Although it's often 'easier' to squeeze out an extra watt or two when there's headwind.

I personally find the opposite of this - headwind makes it harder to get eveything out. Only noticed it when I looked at Garmin files comparing headwind and tailwind. It must be psychological. Maybe only applies to me though!