Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Alberto looks fat on both pictures

Yes he is fat

 

[murali]

can any one translate that spanish thing. google doesn't make much sense to me.

orginal:
Y, también, suena cada vez con más fuerza el interés de la firma de bicicletas Specialized por subirse a este ‘Ferrari’ de dos ruedas. Specialized es la bicicleta que patrocina a Contador, con quien Alonso quiso montar un equipo en 2009. Las piezas del puzzle empiezan a encajar.

...

Y Specialized, la firma más agresiva, la que surte al Astana, el Omega y el Saxo, quiere estar con él. Con Specialized podría llegar Contador, objeto de deseo de Alonso.

google's effort:
And, also, it sounds increasingly harder the interest of Specialized Bicycle signature by jumping on this 'Ferrari' of two wheels. Specialized is the bike that Contador sponsors, whom Alonso wanted to assemble a team in 2009. The pieces of the puzzle fall into place.

...

And Specialized, more aggressive firm, which supplies the Astana and Saxo Omega wants to be with him. With Specialized could Contador, Alonso object of desire.
===========
alonso object of desire??

 

[murali]

Alberto looks fat on both pictures

I thought I was thin, and this guy looks much thinner than me. so was that sarcam?

 

[Netserk]

I thought I was thin, and this guy looks much thinner than me. so was that sarcam?

For a climber/GC rider who has just completed the Tour, he looks quite fat.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Tinkov is full of BS. What he said about paying AC's salary might as well be BS too. Tinkov said he had to pay 1mln. That is certainly not half of what AC earns. So, that was BS. Perhaps him paying AC is BS too.

What is sure is that Specialized pays a part of AC's salary but how long will Specialized continue to back AC. They have Nibali, Martin and Cav. They're big stars too and actually perform still.

IIRC, Specialized paid half his salary on Saxo pre-ban, back before Tinkoff Bank entered the picture. If a similar arrangement continues now, I'd assume that Spesh covers half, and that the combined team sponsors cover the other half. So yeah, Oleg is probably stretching the truth by claiming to cover half AC's salary himself, since some of the money likely comes from Saxo too.

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

can any one translate that spanish thing. google doesn't make much sense to me.

orginal:
Y, también, suena cada vez con más fuerza el interés de la firma de bicicletas Specialized por subirse a este ‘Ferrari’ de dos ruedas. Specialized es la bicicleta que patrocina a Contador, con quien Alonso quiso montar un equipo en 2009. Las piezas del puzzle empiezan a encajar.

...

Y Specialized, la firma más agresiva, la que surte al Astana, el Omega y el Saxo, quiere estar con él. Con Specialized podría llegar Contador, objeto de deseo de Alonso.

google's effort:
And, also, it sounds increasingly harder the interest of Specialized Bicycle signature by jumping on this 'Ferrari' of two wheels. Specialized is the bike that Contador sponsors, whom Alonso wanted to assemble a team in 2009. The pieces of the puzzle fall into place.

...

And Specialized, more aggressive firm, which supplies the Astana and Saxo Omega wants to be with him. With Specialized could Contador, Alonso object of desire.
===========
alonso object of desire??

Yeah, sorry about that... don't really like google translate when it doesn't translate accurately what you're trying to translate. So the last part (the one you're asking for clarification) just said that Contador is 'the object of desire' that Alonso wants and if Specialized joins him, it can become a reality.

 

[LaFlorecita]

As a heavily used hollywood line goes - **** them if they can't take a joke.

Seriously, learn to take a joke.

I always went well well over the top in my postings in support of Contador, and of Samu and all other riders, and now I do the same when its time to criticise him.

All your favourite posts of mine. The nickname - The Great One, which I gave him. The line about how Contador fans are a family. The one about how all cycling fans are judged only by whether they support Contador or not etc etc.

All of that was massive hyperbole. you weren't complaining about my posting style then. Now when its time to rib Contador a little, which he fully deserves, I continue with the same ott posting style, but you act like I put out a contract on Contador or something and even complaining about it on twitter.

And come on Contador does deserve it. What am I criticising him here for for example. That he has become a tour only rider. SOmething i always despised. I spent the last 2 years seeking any excuse to beat up on VDB about it. Now Contador is doingt it.

ANyway since i dont want to hijack this thread anymore i am willing to go further in the Contador thread if you wish.

I dearly hope you're saying this is all a joke but I suspect that is not the point you're trying to make.

PS Please show me evidence he has become a tour only rider because as far as I can see it that is complete BS. If this Contador is your definition of a tour only rider then he's been a tour only rider since 2007 and do I even want to know how you'd describe Schleck and JVDB?

He has always performed consistently throughout the year. This year not on the level as in previous years. But that shouldn't be of any importance in this discussion.

 

[The Hitch]

As regards Contador's tour only attitude, here is what I have to say

Here we sit on the eve of what is the best chance hell ever have to win the World Championships. A race a top form Contador would have like a 50% chance of winning considering he has a superior squad to Froome and Nibali.

If he has any concept of cycling history hell realize its the one title that eludes him to make him a total legend. It would make him a tripple crown winner. It would make him 1 of only 5 riders to win the 4 biggest things in the sport. The last one was 30 years ago. It would give him stripes for a year and smaller stripes for ever. It would give him a big 1 day race to go with all his stage races. SHow he wasn't just a stage rider. Give him that big title that almost all the greats had (cos some classics riders and sprinters never won the Tour)

And what does Contador do. He spends the first half of the season saying by proxy that he has no intention of challenging at the worlds essentially because only the tour matters to him. I mean wtf, the worlds to Contador should be worth more than the next 3 TDFs. It would catapult him into the top 10 cyclists of all time something which without the 2 gts he lost he is quite far away from.

He spends the first half of the season doing that, then he goes, underform into the Tour, based on some god knows what delusion of winning when he clearly cant, bluffs his way through the race by using his team into a top 5, which he claims is meaningless anyway so why didnt he shot down and go for a stage? Then says hes off to train for next years Tour. He might do the worlds and Lombardia.

Now if Contador is secretly training away for the worlds as we speak and its all some elaborate bluff so that no one takes him seriously at the worlds then he flies away 50k from the end and solos in as everyone is looking at eachother, I will put my hat down, force at gunpoint my entire neihgbourhood to take their hats off for him, and name my kids after him.

But from everything else weve seen this season, it looks like Contador, for real isn't even bothering to give that chance at history a shot, and instead is going full lockdown mode for a race next year that most of his opponents wont even think about for another half a year.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Also, I cannot believe this imagined Tour Only attitude you see in him is the only reason for your 180 degree turn.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He said that he's aiming for the worlds. I guess you missed that.

He however is not delusional and realizes he has a very small chance to win especially because Team Spain has 3 guys with a much bigger chance to win.

He just isn't a classics guy. He can't sprint. He can climb. He can tt (or could). He is a stage racer. Not a classics guy. He doesn't care about records. He's said many times he doesn't want to win X race Y amount of times because that would put him in the top Z of best cyclists of all time. He doesn't care. That's why he made the smart decision, a few years ago, to aim for stage races. Because he can actually win them. To win a one day race he either needs a profile to suit his skills (see Milano Torino) or a **** ton of luck. I for one wouldn't base my season on the small chance that I'd get that **** ton of luck.

He doesn't want to become a legend. That is just what his fans want. His fans want him to become one of the greats. Let's for once trust Contador to make the right decision. I want him to be a legend too. I want him to win 10Gts and the worlds and LBL and Lombardia and T-A and even Paris Roubaix. But he just wants to ride his bike and win races. I think we should respect that.

 

[Netserk]

As regards Contador's tour only attitude, here is what I have to say

Here we sit on the eve of what is the best chance hell ever have to win the World Championships. A race a top form Contador would have like a 50% chance of winning considering he has a superior squad to Froome and Nibali.

If he has any concept of cycling history hell realize its the one title that eludes him to make him a total legend. It would make him a tripple crown winner. It would make him 1 of only 5 riders to win the 4 biggest things in the sport. The last one was 30 years ago. It would give him stripes for a year and smaller stripes for ever. It would give him a big 1 day race to go with all his stage races. SHow he wasn't just a stage rider. Give him that big title that almost all the greats had (cos some classics riders and sprinters never won the Tour)

And what does Contador do. He spends the first half of the season saying by proxy that he has no intention of challenging at the worlds essentially because only the tour matters to him. I mean wtf, the worlds to Contador should be worth more than the next 3 TDFs. It would catapult him into the top 10 cyclists of all time something which without the 2 gts he lost he is quite far away from.

He spends the first half of the season doing that, then he goes, underform into the Tour, based on some god knows what delusion of winning when he clearly cant, bluffs his way through the race by using his team into a top 5, which he claims is meaningless anyway so why didnt he shot down and go for a stage? Then says hes off to train for next years Tour. He might do the worlds and Lombardia.

Now if Contador is secretly training away for the worlds as we speak and its all some elaborate bluff so that no one takes him seriously at the worlds then he flies away 50k from the end and solos in as everyone is looking at eachother, I will put my hat down, force at gunpoint my entire neihgbourhood to take their hats off for him, and name my kids after him.

But from everything else weve seen this season, it looks like Contador, for real isn't even bothering to give that chance at history a shot, and instead is going full lockdown mode for a race next year that most of his opponents wont even think about for another half a year.

Say what?? Even in 2011 form (much better than the top form he can manage since his comeback) he'd have less than 10% to win the worlds.

Outrageous claim. But then again you just said that all you post about Contador is ott...

 

[The Hitch]

Also, I cannot believe this imagined Tour Only attitude.

You going to adress any of my points or just dismiss them off hand because - yay Contador?

Say what?? Even in 2011 form (much better than the top form he can manage since his comeback) he'd have less than 10% to win the worlds.

Outrageous claim. But then again you just said that all you post about Contador is ott...

Strongly disagree.
Contador on 2011 form would be a shoe in for this. The only way he wouldn't win is if Devolder RVV style the opponents decided it would be pointless to chase the teammate and let some other Spaniard take the thing.

I mean even then, Contador could start drilling on the long climb like 4 laps out and by the time he reached the top it would be a small group of riders from which Contador would be easily the strongest.

 

[Netserk]

Strongly disagree.
Contador on 2011 form would be a shoe in for this. The only way he wouldn't win is if Devolder RVV style the opponents decided it would be pointless to chase the teammate and let some other Spaniard take the thing.

I mean even then, Contador could start drilling on the long climb like 4 laps out and by the time he reached the top it would be a small group of riders from which Contador would be easily the strongest.

I don't know if you've noticed, but Contador's main strength is his recovery, not his endurance. He can't sprint (on the flat) for ****, so he'd have to get away solo.

L-B-L suits him 100 times better (hyperbole), yet he'd have minimal chance to ever win that race. He simply isn't that good in classics.

 

[The Hitch]

He just isn't a classics guy. He can't sprint. He can climb. He can tt (or could). He is a stage racer. Not a classics guy.


Snip

. To win a one day race he either needs a profile to suit his skills (see Milano Torino) or a **** ton of luck. I for one wouldn't base my season on the small chance that I'd get that **** ton of luck.

As has been explained to you everytime over the last number of years you made this bs argument, you just dont understand 1 day racing.

There are riders out there who are significantly weaker than Contador in every single department of cycling who have no problem with 1 day races. Frank Schleck for example has 3 monument podiums and an Amstel Gold.

Andy Schleck didn't exactly win his LBL in a sprint did he ****ing Basso has been up there in Lombardia, won smaller 1 day races. Even after his comeback when hes been a worse rider, hes top 5 Lombardia.

This is Basso. A guy who makes Contador look like Il Falco on the descents, like Cav in the sprints and like Tony Martin on the flat.

Pantani btw who was a total gt climbing specialist came 3rd at the worlds once.

And look at all the people that came before Contador as gt specialists who owned tts and climbs. Lance won the worlds, challenged for Liege multiple times, won Fleche, podiumed olympics. Indurain came 2nd in worlds though only because he let his teammate win instead of him. Hinault won worlds and 4 monuments. Merckx won every classic apart from Paris Tours. Lemond won worlds. Anquetil won Liege. etc etc.

Why can't Contador. He can. We already saw in Lombardy and Liege he would have no problem in 1 day races if he wanted to win.

 

[The Hitch]

I don't know if you've noticed, but Contador's main strength is his recovery, not his endurance. He can't sprint (on the flat) for ****, so he'd have to get away solo.

L-B-L suits him 100 times better (hyperbole), yet he'd have minimal chance to ever win that race. He simply isn't that good in classics.

His main strengh is being the best climber. Take his times up Etna, Plateau de Beile or Verbier. Even if other riders didn't have 10 days racing in their legs they wouldnt be able to match those times.

Btw Hes absolutely crushed plenty of shorter stage races in his career. Even won the opening stages sometimes eg Pais Vasco some years back and also prologues he has won or even in the Tour came 2nd in that opening tt. The Catalunya climb in 2011 for example was stage 3 . He absolutely Verbiered everyone there too and the competition was no joke- Evans, Basso, Martin, Leipheimer.

Must have been that super recovery from the 2 short sprint stages Never would have won otherwise

 

[hrotha]

As it so happens, there are other stage races after the Tour. Even assuming he could never do anything in the classics (which is a bit silly - is he less well equipped for them than, say, Kreuziger?), there's other races he could do.

Especially considering he should try to make up for his terrible season.

 

[The Hitch]

Now there's a thinking man.

 

[karlboss]

IMHO Contador has all the attributes to be a great classics rider, the only attribute missing is experience. In 11 years he's done 14 1.HC and above one day races, and of those 14, 6 are since his comeback. 14 is matched by Nibali in 3 years. Rodriguez has 18 in 3 years. However for someone relatively inexperienced his results are very good. He'll have a shot at the worlds for sure, but quite a bit depends on the tactics the team employs.

 

[Cyivel]

Some interesting posts here, not a particularly insightful post coming from myself though.

To me Alberto is like a Hurricane and his champion spirit is here to stay.

 

[Jelantik]

Seriously, the guy comes back from suspension, wins a GT one month later (something I think noone else could do) and has a bad year the next year. Got too fat (bad in San Luis, still won a MTF, and arguably Oman), got sick during Tirreno (crap weather, many people get sick from cycling 4+ hours a day in the rain and temperatures under 10 degrees), was still suffering from said illnes in Pais Vasco, (got 5th I think while being sick), was suffering from pollen allergy during couple of stages in DL (during which he showed some improvement finishing 2nd on a MTF finishing 4 seconds behind Froome), completely mistimed his peak (said he had the best training times on 'his' climbs) between DL and the Tour, where he finished 4th despite being severely overtrained (even attacking in windy flat stages).

Between 2007-2012 he has proven time and time again he is the most talented and gutsy rider of his generation, often dropping rivals whenever he wanted, or making absolutely crazy attacks with or without succes (PN 2009, TdF 2011, la Vuelta 2012, even Oman 2013), cause going down fighting is still better and even more fun than going with 2nd place.

He's still human though, and human athletes can have years in which they win not a single thing (name one cyclist who didn't have lesser years between his greatest years). He's not robot, that wouldn't even be interesting. Contador is my favourite cyclist because he has all the talent he needs, and because he races with 100% heart, instinct and guts

Even though he might never do a "Verbier" or win the Tour again, nothing has told me he stopped loving the sport, so he'll go and even if he doesn't win anything, I'll support him, cause even a 50% Contador can be a huge pain in the @ss for anyone he thinks he can win the Tour.

True fans aren´t just supporting the mans who wins the most, or (in my opinion at least) support a guy who never tested positive (cause it doesn't mean they aren't clinical). Nowaday's cyclist have to conquer climbs up to 25% solely for the amusement of the viewer. People who watch the sport want to see hero's, and that's exactly what I see when see Alberto Contador ride a bike


Sorry if the mods interpret some things as clinical

amen brother. The talk about he should retire or he is declining, is non sense. I hope the result of his teammate in la vuelta motivates him to close his season in a high note. GO CONTADOR!

 

[Miburo]

**** it, Contador win the worlds

I believe he could win the tour so why the **** not? Look what happened with Evans in '09

 

[Miburo]

I think a Contador in giro 2011 form would have a very big chance to win it unless like hitch said you've a devolder scenario or contador rides like an idiot.

We've never even seen Contador in top shape in a classic. In 2010 he had an ok shape in LBL and with some luck he might have won that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't know if you've noticed, but Contador's main strength is his recovery, not his endurance. He can't sprint (on the flat) for ****, so he'd have to get away solo.

L-B-L suits him 100 times better (hyperbole), yet he'd have minimal chance to ever win that race. He simply isn't that good in classics.

+1 netserk

 

[LaFlorecita]

As has been explained to you everytime over the last number of years you made this bs argument, you just dont understand 1 day racing.

There are riders out there who are significantly weaker than Contador in every single department of cycling who have no problem with 1 day races. Frank Schleck for example has 3 monument podiums and an Amstel Gold.

Andy Schleck didn't exactly win his LBL in a sprint did he ****ing Basso has been up there in Lombardia, won smaller 1 day races. Even after his comeback when hes been a worse rider, hes top 5 Lombardia.

This is Basso. A guy who makes Contador look like Il Falco on the descents, like Cav in the sprints and like Tony Martin on the flat.

Pantani btw who was a total gt climbing specialist came 3rd at the worlds once.

And look at all the people that came before Contador as gt specialists who owned tts and climbs. Lance won the worlds, challenged for Liege multiple times, won Fleche, podiumed olympics. Indurain came 2nd in worlds though only because he let his teammate win instead of him. Hinault won worlds and 4 monuments. Merckx won every classic apart from Paris Tours. Lemond won worlds. Anquetil won Liege. etc etc.

Why can't Contador. He can. We already saw in Lombardy and Liege he would have no problem in 1 day races if he wanted to win.

He doesn't want to win classics. Is that your argument. not a very strong one I must say.

I am sure Contador could win a one day race (a real one not Milano-Torino) if he'd base his season on them. But he doesn't. I don't know for what reason but I'm guessing it's not because he doesn't want to win a classic. He's said this year that (for him!) it's hard to be competitive in the classics and in stage races because they require different preparations.

I want him to win classics hell even monuments but I cannot seriously imagine him winning one. He needs a long climb to create a proper gap and not a long distance for the top of the last hill to the finish. Then he needs great form to be able to create a gap and then he needs to hope he can stay away. It's certainly possible but not worth basing your whole season on. Classics are much more unpredictable than stage races. Stage races are safer because consistency can still get you somewhere.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think a Contador in giro 2011 form would have a very big chance to win it unless like hitch said you've a devolder scenario or contador rides like an idiot.

We've never even seen Contador in top shape in a classic. In 2010 he had an ok shape in LBL and with some luck he might have won that.

Of course not. Even with Contador in 2011 form there would be Purito, Valverde and Moreno from his own team who would outsprint him any day of the week. So would some of the Colombians for example Uran and Betancur. Nibali would maybe not outsprint him but would certainly a better bet. Cance and Phil would outsprint him. And then there's still the chance of a breakaway surprise win. I would rate the 2013 Contador in that group by the way. I'd give the pre ban Contador a 5% chance to win. 2013 Contador gets to share 5% with 20 others.