Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[roundabout]

It was meant to be a response to LF's comment about Contador not being allowed a meter and how now that he isn't the strongest he has little chance to get away.

I guess I forgot to insert the quote.

The "not strong" doesn't neccesarily only refer to a comparison with his former self but also with his opponents.

In 2011 Tour he was outclimbed on 3 of the 4 mountain stages. In the 2012 Vuelta Murito was his equal / very slight superior on every single climbing stage.

He still managed to get away in those races despite over the course of the race not being the strongest (climber as far as 2012 vuelta goes cos with tt he was still the srongest)

On those 2 days he was arguably one of the strongest (if not *the* strongest) riders in the race.

Apart from the bonk on the Galibier stage he was the strongest in the Alps. And by Fuente De he was doing most of the attacking in the Vuelta while Purito was clinging on like a leech/outsprinting in the last km/muritos.

 

[roundabout]

My recollection of that Vuelta

Arrate Contador doing all of the attacking, but got outsprinted in the last km

Valdezcaray got away from Rodriguez but was too focused on Froome

Jaca suffered

Canolich got away but couldn't hold the gap against the last km sprint

Ezaro murito non plus ultra

Ancares I think the same as Canolich, but I haven't seen the stage live

Covadonga did the attacking while Rodriguez clung on

Pajares I think he did more attacking and Rodriguez gained very little time on the murito end

 

[The Hitch]

On those 2 days he was arguably one of the strongest (if not *the* strongest) riders in the race.

Apart from the bonk on the Galibier stage he was the strongest in the Alps. And by Fuente De he was doing most of the attacking in the Vuelta while Purito was clinging on like a leech/outsprinting in the last km/muritos.

I disagree. Strongest in the Alpes? Well the Galibier stage was half the Alpes , so even though he was the strongest on Madone-Alpe, I guess, its not enough to declare him the strongest there. The other kinda Alpe stage was Pinerolo which went over Sestrieres though thats a technicality cos Sestrieres was so far off. But there he failed to drop anyone on the climb and it was only that out of this world Il Falco descent that he managed to get away from everyone

As for doing most of his attacking in the Vuelta by Fuente de? As I recall he was doing none stop attacking from the start. He did like 10 on Arrate on stage 3.

I remember Cound tweeting already after that stage on the Monday that the Vuelta had more attacks in 2 road stages than the Tour in 3 weeks.

He then did an attack Valdezcray, he got away from everyone on Galina and was caught in Tony Martin style on the line, he tried on Montjuic but it was 2013 level pathetic. And he continued that into the mountains. In fact there were far more on Lagos than on Pahares.

 

[roundabout]

I disagree. Strongest in the Alpes? Well the Galibier stage was half the Alpes , so even though he was the strongest on Madone-Alpe, I guess, its not enough to declare him the strongest there. The other kinda Alpe stage was Pinerolo which went over Sestrieres though thats a technicality cos Sestrieres was so far off. But there he failed to drop anyone on the climb and it was only that out of this world Il Falco descent that he managed to get away from everyone

As for doing most of his attacking in the Vuelta by Fuente de? As I recall he was doing none stop attacking from the start. He did like 10 on Arrate on stage 3.

I remember Cound tweeting already after that stage on the Monday that the Vuelta had more attacks in 2 road stages than the Tour in 3 weeks.

He then did an attack Valdezcray, he got away from everyone on Galina and was caught in Tony Martin style on the line, he tried on Montjuic but it was 2013 level pathetic. And he continued that into the mountains. In fact there were far more on Lagos than on Pahares.

He didn't suddenly hit form on the stage to Alpe d'Huez. It was there a few days before.

And as for the Vuelta, see my subsequent post. He did the vast majority of the attacking. Just because he wasn't smart enough to try to hurt Rodriguez from outside Murito's comfort zone doesn't mean that he was weaker.

 

[The Hitch]

He didn't suddenly hit form on the stage to Alpe d'Huez. It was there a few days before.

And as for the Vuelta, see my subsequent post. He did the vast majority of the attacking. Just because he wasn't smart enough to try to hurt Rodriguez from outside Murito's comfort zone doesn't mean that he was weaker.

What do you mean smart enough? On Ancares and Lagos he attacked like 7k out. Thats Contador zone, not Murito zone. Murito coped both times. Before that there wasnt really anywhere to attack since all stages were short hill finishes.

In fact on that 1 stage he did get away but Purito Valverde came back.

The only option was Montjuic where the climb wasnt actually the finish but Murito was far to strong there.

 

[Carols]

Carol I agree although I am not sure this is just a natural decline but somehow you make it sound very dramatic not cool because it makes me sad even though when I think of it I don't get sad at all

It is very dramatic...watching a Great fall has always proved a gut wrenching experience. I've seen it to many times, but it is inevitable, they all fall

Maybe he will bounce back to the 2012 level, that may be possible, and win on race savvy, tactics and raids.

 

[Jelantik]

Not going anywhere acording to Alberto.

http://www.bt.dk/cykling/contador-afviser-riis-exit

but sounded like bjarne isn't denying the possibility? So who's the one that wants to get ride of who?? Poor bjarne, just when he finally got a strong team to build around contador, he lost the sponsor. And Oleg, he is a jerk, I do hope bjarne got a new sponsor.

I'm not so excited hearing about contador leaving for his friend. Dunno, maybe he should stop doing the buddy buddy thing and start doing some serious business. He got the team around him that's strong. All he needs to do is perform.

Reading the news so far, now I'm not quite sure what's going on with contador this season. Maybe oleg was right criticizing him for not working hard enough. It doesn't seem like contador to me, to just lost his competitive edge. He didn't want to do vuelta, was he in really a bad shape? Valverde and Roche looks great so far. Well except roman, he is showing his fatigue. Maybe contador would be in roman's place if he is in vuelta now. But he said he should be good in canada. So we'll see.

 

[Red Rick]

Seriously, the guy comes back from suspension, wins a GT one month later (something I think noone else could do) and has a bad year the next year. Got too fat (bad in San Luis, still won a MTF, and arguably Oman), got sick during Tirreno (crap weather, many people get sick from cycling 4+ hours a day in the rain and temperatures under 10 degrees), was still suffering from said illnes in Pais Vasco, (got 5th I think while being sick), was suffering from pollen allergy during couple of stages in DL (during which he showed some improvement finishing 2nd on a MTF finishing 4 seconds behind Froome), completely mistimed his peak (said he had the best training times on 'his' climbs) between DL and the Tour, where he finished 4th despite being severely overtrained (even attacking in windy flat stages).

Between 2007-2012 he has proven time and time again he is the most talented and gutsy rider of his generation, often dropping rivals whenever he wanted, or making absolutely crazy attacks with or without succes (PN 2009, TdF 2011, la Vuelta 2012, even Oman 2013), cause going down fighting is still better and even more fun than going with 2nd place.

He's still human though, and human athletes can have years in which they win not a single thing (name one cyclist who didn't have lesser years between his greatest years). He's not robot, that wouldn't even be interesting. Contador is my favourite cyclist because he has all the talent he needs, and because he races with 100% heart, instinct and guts

Even though he might never do a "Verbier" or win the Tour again, nothing has told me he stopped loving the sport, so he'll go and even if he doesn't win anything, I'll support him, cause even a 50% Contador can be a huge pain in the @ss for anyone he thinks he can win the Tour.

True fans aren´t just supporting the mans who wins the most, or (in my opinion at least) support a guy who never tested positive (cause it doesn't mean they aren't clinical). Nowaday's cyclist have to conquer climbs up to 25% solely for the amusement of the viewer. People who watch the sport want to see hero's, and that's exactly what I see when see Alberto Contador ride a bike


Sorry if the mods interpret some things as clinical

 

[LaFlorecita]

I made posts in certain discussions. I criticised Contador in some of them because he deserved to be criticised on the subjects being discussed.

Those posts are very easy to understand. If you do not understand something in them feel free to highlight that point and ill explain. You should not have any problem understanding them however because most of my points were made explicitly.

I have not been launching some wider crusade against Contador like some of you claim (presumably in order so that you could go to bed with some narrative about how I have made some face heel turn into a Contador hater)

Since I am not making any wider case against Contador i have absolutely no great "point" i need to explain.

Criticizing is fine. However, you haven't posted any post simply discussing him since his decline except to criticize him. Neither have you said one positive word about him, only criticizing, criticizing, criticizing. It's like he's dead to you, which is fine, but don't claim you do it for some greater good ie to stop us "from steering into water with soviet submarines" as you said it. Also, in my opinion it isn't fair to flame people who are still fans, just because they are still fans. For example when you replied to Carol's post and said something about the "imagined greatness" she saw in him. Are you kidding me? Now all of a sudden the greatness was imagined and of course you never saw it in him? Well, that seems weird to me comimg from the guy who came up with the nickname The Great One.

Let me ask you, what should he do to make you happy again? Or in other words, what would make you cheer for him again? When he next wins something (god knows whrn that may be) will you be happy, or will you shrug your shoulders and think "I don't care" ?

 

[murali]

.....
I'll support him, cause even a 50% Contador can be a huge pain in the @ss for anyone who thinks he can win the Tour.

True fans aren´t just supporting the mans who wins the most, or support a guy who never tested positive ... People who watch the sport want to see hero's, and that's exactly what I see when see Alberto Contador ride a bike

Alberto Contador, the phenomenon, is the real reason why he is followed by fans and critics. You have basically described why a lot of us respect him more than the other GT rivals. The comeback Vuelta win is proof of what the man stands for: grit, determination, killer-instinct, never-say-die attitude.
No other rider is bestowed with as much respect as AC, both from his rivals and his supporters. If he had a bad race, then its just one race to forget. If he made a mistake, its just another thing that we forgive. simply because, when that man stands on the pedals and tilts his head a bit sideways, you know what you are about to witness. The adrenalin suddenly kicks in.

Contador riding a race is better than a race without contador. I hope he proves the point in Canada.

 

[Captain_Obvious]

Seriously, the guy comes back from suspension, wins a GT one month later (something I think noone else could do) and has a bad year the next year. Got too fat (bad in San Luis, still won a MTF, and arguably Oman), got sick during Tirreno (crap weather, many people get sick from cycling 4+ hours a day in the rain and temperatures under 10 degrees), was still suffering from said illnes in Pais Vasco, (got 5th I think while being sick), was suffering from pollen allergy during couple of stages in DL (during which he showed some improvement finishing 2nd on a MTF finishing 4 seconds behind Froome), completely mistimed his peak (said he had the best training times on 'his' climbs) between DL and the Tour, where he finished 4th despite being severely overtrained (even attacking in windy flat stages).

Between 2007-2012 he has proven time and time again he is the most talented and gutsy rider of his generation, often dropping rivals whenever he wanted, or making absolutely crazy attacks with or without succes (PN 2009, TdF 2011, la Vuelta 2012, even Oman 2013), cause going down fighting is still better and even more fun than going with 2nd place.

He's still human though, and human athletes can have years in which they win not a single thing (name one cyclist who didn't have lesser years between his greatest years). He's not robot, that wouldn't even be interesting. Contador is my favourite cyclist because he has all the talent he needs, and because he races with 100% heart, instinct and guts

Even though he might never do a "Verbier" or win the Tour again, nothing has told me he stopped loving the sport, so he'll go and even if he doesn't win anything, I'll support him, cause even a 50% Contador can be a huge pain in the @ss for anyone he thinks he can win the Tour.

True fans aren´t just supporting the mans who wins the most, or (in my opinion at least) support a guy who never tested positive (cause it doesn't mean they aren't clinical). Nowaday's cyclist have to conquer climbs up to 25% solely for the amusement of the viewer. People who watch the sport want to see hero's, and that's exactly what I see when see Alberto Contador ride a bike


Sorry if the mods interpret some things as clinical

I think I agree with most. Good enough summary.

 

[Cimber]

I think it would be good for him to move to the new Spanish Alonso team. I think he could redicover himself on a new Spanish team owned by his good mate.

 

[Angliru]

Red Rick and Murali, thank you for your posts. They both are from the heart and reflect my thoughts on Contador completely. I'll always be a Contador fan.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think it would be good for him to move to the new Spanish Alonso team. I think he could redicover himself on a new Spanish team owned by his good mate.

Hey Cimber long time no see!

I think it could go both ways, either what you said happens or he slips further down because of lack of support and (partially as a result of that lack of support) too much pressure. I am not sure I would be willing to take that risk (remember his salary would go down)

 

[Beech Mtn]

I think it would be good for him to move to the new Spanish Alonso team. I think he could redicover himself on a new Spanish team owned by his good mate.

I agree.

Random thoughts:

I didn't like this business of being forced to move to Switzerland. Especially in a year with such bad weather in the mountains.

The whole Tinkov issue and Riis' money needs - I think that may be a bit more serious than it appears.

And then there are issues that can't be discussed outside the clinic, related not only to AC but also the team and investigation into Bjarne. We really can only half discuss these issues of performance and possible transfer in this part of the forum.

And on that note, I'll stop before going any further afield.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Velonation has a story in English now about Riis' comments on Alberto staying with the team & the search for a new sponsor.

The VN story states that Specialized pays Alberto's salary, but it's my understanding that Spesh only covers half of AC's salary, not the whole thing. Certainly Tinkov has tweeted frequently about himself paying half of Alberto's salary.

 

[murali]

the salary part is the only worrying thing.

if the rumours are true, then his child is on the way. (btw, any confirmation about that blog entry yet?) I think that might effect his decision/performance.

 

[Carols]

Criticizing is fine...Also, in my opinion it isn't fair to flame people who are still fans, just because they are still fans. For example when you replied to Carol's post and said something about the "imagined greatness" she saw in him. Are you kidding me? Now all of a sudden the greatness was imagined and of course you never saw it in him? Well, that seems weird to me comimg from the guy who came up with the nickname The Great One.

Hey don't bring me into this I'm 63 now, someone wants to flame me, I basically move on. A reasoned response and it's history I'm to old to spend time and energy arguing, I need it for more interesting endeavors.

I grew up steeped in this sport, albeit with the handicap of being in the USA. But my dad rode, he has a plaque on the wall in the USA Cycling Hall of Fame. I've attended bike races, rode in bike races, followed bike racing my entire life.

I know a Great when I see one and it doesn't take 3+ GC wins or any other written criteria to make one. Either a rider has it inherently or he does not, the palmares is just the mechanism used to define it to the world.

Alberto is and Always will be a Great. Nibali, bless his heart I truly like him, could rack up GT win after win after win. But he will never be a true Great, the inner fire of greatness isn't there.

So I will always be an Alberto fan. I'd rather not see the replay of the other Greats I've seen decline and agonize as they try to rekindle the flame. But if that is the route he takes I will certainly be cheering every valiant attempt he makes!! And if there is ever a rider that could turn it around it is Alberto. But I have little hope and only realistic expectations of him. Any future bursts of the flame should be treasured and appreciated.

 

[Dedelou]

I think it would be good for him to move to the new Spanish Alonso team. I think he could redicover himself on a new Spanish team owned by his good mate.

obviously some of you know much more details than I do and some of you may have inside information. To me, it looks like 2013 was a transition year for Alberto. Winning the Vuelta last year was his "statement" that he is a giant in Grand Tour racing but what we saw this year is a man facing a "cycling midlife crisis" I say that because I suspect that Marriage and upcoming fatherhood is a life changer for many athletes. Alberto's performance would be fantastic for 98 % of the current cyclists. Most don't even dream of doing that well. We expect much more and so does he but he may have to readjust his objectives. Whether or not he would be better off in a spanish team based in Spain is not clear. But Alberto has had to content in the past with adversarial management and teammates and this situation with Tinkof must bring memories of distasteful things. It is my opinion, and I may be wrong in this, but The TDF has always being a mix blessing for him. He won a few, yet ASO has never really given him the respect he deserve. If that his so, I can see him not wanting to do "heroics" for them, knowing full well, it is expected from him by his team and his fans.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Velonation has a story in English now about Riis' comments on Alberto staying with the team & the search for a new sponsor.

The VN story states that Specialized pays Alberto's salary, but it's my understanding that Spesh only covers half of AC's salary, not the whole thing. Certainly Tinkov has tweeted frequently about himself paying half of Alberto's salary.

Tinkov is full of BS. What he said about paying AC's salary might as well be BS too. Tinkov said he had to pay 1mln. That is certainly not half of what AC earns. So, that was BS. Perhaps him paying AC is BS too.

What is sure is that Specialized pays a part of AC's salary but how long will Specialized continue to back AC. They have Nibali, Martin and Cav. They're big stars too and actually perform still.

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

Tinkov is full of BS. What he said about paying AC's salary might as well be BS too. Tinkov said he had to pay 1mln. That is certainly not half of what AC earns. So, that was BS. Perhaps him paying AC is BS too.

What is sure is that Specialized pays a part of AC's salary but how long will Specialized continue to back AC. They have Nibali, Martin and Cav. They're big stars too and actually perform still.

And on that note, there's another rumor surrounding Alberto and Alonso's new team that now includes Specialized

Y, también, suena cada vez con más fuerza el interés de la firma de bicicletas Specialized por subirse a este ‘Ferrari’ de dos ruedas. Specialized es la bicicleta que patrocina a Contador, con quien Alonso quiso montar un equipo en 2009. Las piezas del puzzle empiezan a encajar.

...

Y Specialized, la firma más agresiva, la que surte al Astana, el Omega y el Saxo, quiere estar con él. Con Specialized podría llegar Contador, objeto de deseo de Alonso.

http://www.abc.es/deportes/20130905/abci-conexion-entre-alonso-contador-201309042053.html

So basically, Specialized is interested in Alonso's new team and with that interest, it would be easier for Contador to move to the new team.

But I don't believe Alberto will leave Saxo.

 

[LaFlorecita]

the salary part is the only worrying thing.

if the rumours are true, then his child is on the way. (btw, any confirmation about that blog entry yet?) I think that might effect his decision/performance.

No confirmation but while browsing I found these pics dating from 23 July, Alberto arriving at the hospital with his wife
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detai...arena-pescador-arrive-at-news-photo/174323452

And leaving again
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detai...arena-pescador-arrive-at-news-photo/174323442
But it could be anything of course but the two of them together and the date make me suspicious.

 

[Cyivel]

Zoomed in on the letter, couldn't see anything though.

 

[Netserk]

Alberto looks fat on both pictures

 

[LaFlorecita]

Zoomed in on the letter, couldn't see anything though.

Dang that sucks Europe Press should deliver higher quality pics