Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[inthepink]

Firstly what has my post to do with LaFlorecita???

Originally Posted by LaFlorecita
Yeah I think so. Though I really hope they don't take Roche (and Paulinho). They're pretty useless as domestiques. Roche because he'd much rather ride for himself, and Paulinho because he's simply not good enough.

I was reply to your quote above ...if you are going to make such statements then accept the reply


As for ILovecycling
Could you be more patronizing...deigning to reply to me .just ..with your superior knowledge and my lack of the basics ..

I hesitated if its worth an answer,cuz its look like Jofans armada is coming this month,but on the other you did decent post (but with lot of bs),so here is my asnwer.

Its not ridiculous at all to suggest he needs to stay home,there are better riders in team for Contador

Again total rubbish ! There are 8 better riders ....no way
And last year he did help in the mountains ....who rode at the front for most of the Queens stage ( stage 19)
He was on the train before Rodgers and Kreusiger ,defined by the earlier results int he Pyrennes....hence he was used up before them from stage 9 onwards. I guess if you don't see it on the TV it doesn't happen......Rather than talk down to someone else maybe you should bone up on cycling basics

 

[inthepink]

And finally do you think Klerderman or Van De Broek or any of the top GCs will go to Tinkoff Saxo to ride as domestique when they can ride as leader somewhere else ....

Kelerderman to OGE

What Tinkoff Saxo need are domestiques ...not leaders ...they have enough of those ...good climbers who are happy not to be leaders

 

[T-Nielsen]

And finally do you think Klerderman or Van De Broek or any of the top GCs will go to Tinkoff Saxo to ride as domestique when they can ride as leader somewhere else ....

Kelerderman to OGE

What Tinkoff Saxo need are domestiques ...not leaders ...they have enough of those ...good climbers who are happy not to be leaders

I think VdB knows by now that he will never be a top GT GC'er. WTF OMG YOLO... Peace... (ain't I just swag )

 

[Netserk]

There are not that many high-quality mountain doms on the market. Kiserlovski could be an option if he would be okay with being a dom (imo he is not good enough to be a captain). Basso is old and I doubt how useful he would be. Then there's Capecchi, Szmyd and Plaza from Movi. Cataldo and Lopez from Sky, but I don't think that is very likely. Navarro could come back, but is he strong enough? Delfino probably won't be a dom.

IIRC there also aren't that many with their contract ending this year on Tinkoff, so they'll probably only buy one or two mountain doms, in which case Kiserlovski would be the best to get imo.

 

[inri2000]

Of course Roche should ride the Tour, it shouldn't even be up for debate.

 

[T-Nielsen]

Of course Roche should ride the Tour, it shouldn't even be up for debate.

Its not. We are all just trying to pass time until that annoying music hits and they all go cycling for a summer trip in France.

 

[inthepink]

what about those Bardiani guys from the Giro ...they are very good climbers

Give then very good contract for 2/3 years and then they can go off and be leader elsewhere if they want ...they are young enough or lead in some Italian stage races

 

[inthepink]

I think VdB knows by now that he will never be a top GT GC'er. WTF OMG YOLO... Peace... (ain't I just swag )

he came 4th in 2012 and will probably do a top 5 this year IMO
Don't now how else you measure top....its any rider who can do a top 5 IMO ...otherwise by this logic everyone only Contador, Froome, Quintana a few others should be a domestique in the Tour ...impossible and it won't be a very good race ...Van De Brook may not win it but it doesn't mean he is not a top GC who wants to ride as leader

 

[notrolfsorensen]

he came 4th in 2012 and will probably do a top 5 this year IMO
Don't now how else you measure top....its any rider who can do a top 5 IMO ...otherwise by this logic everyone only Contador, Froome, Quintana a few others should be a domestique in the Tour ...impossible and it won't be a very good race ...Van De Brook may not win it but it doesn't mean he is not a top GC who wants to ride as leader

I agree. Van den Broeck would be a scoop for Contador, but I don't think he has given up on hitting the podium yet either, so why would he ride as second fiddle. Kelderman is another story. The strong Gregario is not the worst thing you can be. Kreuziger's best result is as such for Contador last year, Nibali was Basso's when he podiumed the first Giro, Froome hit the podium twice as Wiggins Gregario and Quintana was meant to be Valverde's last year. Sometimes it is better to be 2nd fiddle in a very strong team, than first fiddle in a weak team.

With regards to Roche - he is a sure thing on the tour team, and will be a strong help no doubt. I am a little concerned with Jesus and Paulinho - Contador wants to do both Tour and Vuelta, so they could split with one of them being scheduled for the Vuelta, because they don't look fit right now. I believe he has enough mountain help with a strong Kreuziger, Roche and Rogers. In stead he should ride with Tosso, Benna, Mørkøv and Breschel and make room for the only one of them.

That way he would also have a very strong team for the flat. Personally I would prefer Jesus with Bertie at the tour and Paulinho at the Vuelta, with the very young and very old (Majka, Beltran, Valgren and Nicki, Kroon and Petrov and so on)

 

[Fzotrlool]

How about Pinot? I think he will be a good choice. Young, available and very strong uphill.

 

[Netserk]

How about Pinot? I think he will be a good choice. Young, available and very strong uphill.

He's a captain, not a dom.

 

[PirazziAttacksVino]

Contador
Kreuziger
Roche
Rogers
Tosatto
Sutherland
Breschel
Jesus
Bennati

This should be the team imo. Breschel, Tosatto and Bennati for the cobbles+flat stages
Kreuziger and Rogers for the mountains
Roche was better last year after the Tour. There are big chances he'll be strong in the Tour after this year's Giro
Rory was a good dom for Contador this season and a better choice than Paulinho, who was useless I might say
Jesus for personal reasons for Alberto

 

[inri2000]

I agree. Van den Broeck would be a scoop for Contador, but I don't think he has given up on hitting the podium yet either, so why would he ride as second fiddle. Kelderman is another story. The strong Gregario is not the worst thing you can be. Kreuziger's best result is as such for Contador last year, Nibali was Basso's when he podiumed the first Giro, Froome hit the podium twice as Wiggins Gregario and Quintana was meant to be Valverde's last year. Sometimes it is better to be 2nd fiddle in a very strong team, than first fiddle in a weak team.

With regards to Roche - he is a sure thing on the tour team, and will be a strong help no doubt. I am a little concerned with Jesus and Paulinho - Contador wants to do both Tour and Vuelta, so they could split with one of them being scheduled for the Vuelta, because they don't look fit right now. I believe he has enough mountain help with a strong Kreuziger, Roche and Rogers. In stead he should ride with Tosso, Benna, Mørkøv and Breschel and make room for the only one of them.

That way he would also have a very strong team for the flat. Personally I would prefer Jesus with Bertie at the tour and Paulinho at the Vuelta, with the very young and very old (Majka, Beltran, Valgren and Nicki, Kroon and Petrov and so on)

Agree except I prefer Paulinho at the Tour instead of Hernandez as he is more versatile and adept at getting in breaks where he can be useful if Contador brídges to him.

 

[inri2000]

How about Pinot? I think he will be a good choice. Young, available and very strong uphill.

Not a bad idea but I would prefer Bardet.

 

[inthepink]

I think one of the strengths (and weaknesses at the same time) of Bjarne Riis as a team manager is he treats all his riders as if they can do anything ...so then he is has to provide opportunities for them to shine , better maybe to buy people as domestiques not a possible leaders...so everyone knows where they stand as at SKY

Plus he values loyalty above all else (cos I guess he has been burnt in the past) so maybe as team owner he hung on to some people because of loyalty ...Oleg Tinkoff won't do that

Thirdly Riis thinks he can improve riders so he attracts those who want to get better (or are not living up to potential) and lead ...... There is a limit to how much of that you should be doing

There are a good lots of climbers out there who cannot lead in a grand tour but are better than some at Tinkoff Saxo ...just need to ensure that they are employed for the correct role......

Of course Riis has been hampered for some years with lack of funds , histarnished reputation and Berts suspension....so loyalty was important to him

 

[ILovecycling]

As for ILovecycling
Could you be more patronizing...deigning to reply to me .just ..with your superior knowledge and my lack of the basics ..

Sorry,but sometimes its tough to distinguish,who is JOfan troll and who is not,and thats really sad.

Again total rubbish ! There are 8 better riders ....no way
And last year he did help in the mountains ....who rode at the front for most of the Queens stage ( stage 19)
He was on the train before Rodgers and Kreusiger ,defined by the earlier results int he Pyrennes....hence he was used up before them from stage 9 onwards. I guess if you don't see it on the TV it doesn't happen......Rather than talk down to someone else maybe you should bone up on cycling basics

Contador
Kreuz
Mickey
Majka
Benna
Tosatto
Sorensen
Morkov
Jesus
-----------------
Paulinho
Rory
Roche

The riders above the line are certainly better for the team,and those 2 above Nico too.
Thats nice he was there in st 19,but he wasnt there when it was needed (before Ventoux) except of st 13.He was supposed to be climber help,and he lacked form,thats his problem.Its certain he always rides better when he has free role,which is embarrasing and it displays he is not a good domestique.

 

[notrolfsorensen]

Contador
Kreuz
Mickey
Majka
Benna
Tosatto
Sorensen
Morkov
Jesus
-----------------
Paulinho
Rory
Roche

No - Majka won't feature is what I hear. Which Sørensen btw Nicky or CAS? I can't really see what role you envision them in.
Roche is better than Paulinho for the team for this tour, especially when Majka is not on the team, and Rory does not have one single area where he is a better rider than Roche in form. Roche is a fine domestique and has ridden as that before. Rory and Paulinho are fine too, but are further from the team.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Firstly what has my post to do with LaFlorecita???


I was reply to your quote above ...if you are going to make such statements then accept the reply

Perhaps you should have quoted that post, then.

Let me rephrase my opinion on Roche: he is a good rider, but not as a domestique, as last year's Tour and this year's Giro show.

 

[LaFlorecita]

No - Majka won't feature is what I hear. Which Sørensen btw Nicky or CAS? I can't really see what role you envision them in.
Roche is better than Paulinho for the team for this tour, especially when Majka is not on the team, and Rory does not have one single area where he is a better rider than Roche in form. Roche is a fine domestique and has ridden as that before. Rory and Paulinho are fine too, but are further from the team.

I would say Rory is always better as a flat domestique, regardless of form.

 

[ILovecycling]

No - Majka won't feature is what I hear. Which Sørensen btw Nicky or CAS? I can't really see what role you envision them in.
Roche is better than Paulinho for the team for this tour, especially when Majka is not on the team, and Rory does not have one single area where he is a better rider than Roche in form. Roche is a fine domestique and has ridden as that before. Rory and Paulinho are fine too, but are further from the team.

thats the problem,we dont know that for sure.I just put together best team for Tour from their squad

I meant Nicki.My theory is that AC will have jaune at least from st 14,so they will need more roulers than climbers.

Rory and Paulinho are both better in one important feature - they are domestics.Roche is NOT.Thats only what matters for me.(and imo it should be the same for Riis)
I know he will be there,but cuz what I wrote,I won't be satisfied with the selection.

 

[notrolfsorensen]

I would say Rory is always better as a flat domestique, regardless of form.

But if they want an extra flat domestique then Nicky is better, or Karsten Kroon, Trusov or Boaro. Rory is an alrounder as is Roche. Roche is a better allrounder. Roche did not have form last year. He is a fine domestique. IMO

 

[ILovecycling]

Perhaps you should have quoted that post, then.

Let me rephrase my opinion on Roche: he is a good rider, but not as a domestique, as last year's Tour and this year's Giro show.

This quoted part,is my last response to all that Roche-talk.There is nothing more to say than what is in this quote.

@Flo: I hope you will forget me the copyright

 

[inthepink]

This quoted part,is my last response to all that Roche-talk.There is nothing more to say than what is in this quote.

@Flo: I hope you will forget me the copyright

True there is nothing more to say ....I will get back ot you on 27th July

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Roche will be selected, and he will do a smashing job for AC

 

[LaFlorecita]

Roche will be selected, and he will do a smashing job for AC

Well I certainly hope so, and not just as bottle carrier. Otherwise it's another wasted spot on the team.

One thing is certain, he will be selected. I am not convinced that's a good thing.