Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Walkman]

The prosecution calls as its first witness: Plateau De Beile.


1998 Marco Pantani : 43.30 (finishing a little lower down the mountain)
2002 Lance Armstrong : 45.43
2004 Lance Armstromg: 45.30
2007 Alberto Contador: 44.08

The Prosecution calls as its second witness, 2009 Verbier.

The prosecution rests its case.

Two climbs, that's…a little light for the best climber of all time, I think.

Also, there Verbier VAM's are totally skewed. Everyone posted insane numbers on that climb. Didn't Armstrong put up better numbers on Verbier than he did Sestriere?

 

[ILovecycling]

Two climbs, that's…a little light for the best climber of all time, I think.

Also, there Verbier VAM's are totally skewed. Everyone posted insane numbers on that climb. Didn't Armstrong put up better numbers on Verbier than he did Sestriere?

and whats your point? he still has by far the best VAM

 

[The Hitch]

Two climbs, that's…a little light for the best climber of all time, I think.

Also, there Verbier VAM's are totally skewed. Everyone posted insane numbers on that climb. Didn't Armstrong put up better numbers on Verbier than he did Sestriere?

2 climbs where he went faster (or at least as fast as) Pantani used to, and faster than Armstrong ever did, not enough? Who else in the history of cycling has even 1 climb where they went anywhere near as fast

BTW I said "arguably" the best climber.

I think Pantani was better, with Contador 2nd and Heras 3rd.

 

[BlurryVII]

2 climbs where he went faster (or at least as fast as) Pantani used to, and faster than Armstrong ever did, not enough? Who else in the history of cycling has even 1 climb where they went anywhere near as fast

BTW I said "arguably" the best climber.

I think Pantani was better, with Contador 2nd and Heras 3rd.

I thought Grossglockner climb was quite impressive as well, AC and Rujano went at 440 watts average (Giro 2011), they won by 1 min 30.

AC & Rassumussen have the record time on Peyresourde, Etna couldn't be calculated because of the strong wind but was outstanding as well. He also showed he is great on extreme gradient (Angliru 2008) as well as low gradient (etna & andorre arcalis). It's pretty safe to say that he is one of the best climber ever, I'd place him second to Pantani overall.

 

[Red Rick]

Contador has also been victorious on the steepest road in the history of road cycling. He's very good at steep stuff.

 

[Walkman]

and whats your point? he still has by far the best VAM

2 climbs where he went faster (or at least as fast as) Pantani used to, and faster than Armstrong ever did, not enough? Who else in the history of cycling has even 1 climb where they went anywhere near as fast

BTW I said "arguably" the best climber.

I think Pantani was better, with Contador 2nd and Heras 3rd.

I can't respond. I was warned and I don't want to be suspended for the upcoming Vuelta.

All I can say is that I do not believe Contador to be the best climber. And also, a graph? I have seen it before but give me some real data and calculations before I even begin to believe those number are real.

 

[Dr. Juice]

That graph doesn't show all efforts. Basso also did around 1800 VAM (Giro '06). And like someone mentioned...averaging 440 W on a 30+ min climb like Grossglockner was impressive from Alberto. But Verbier is only 7.8 km long - half the lenght of a normal mountain. It was one of his best efforts, maybe his best - but VAM or W should not be calculated on climbs with less than 30 min effort.

Personally I like the calculation of Watt but not so much the VAM. Too many variables and it's too hard to do a great VAM on steeper climbs.

 

[roundabout]

Funny how in the "other" place when Verbier is brought up some people would say that it doesn't count because of the alleged tailwind while over here it's "proof" of supreme climbing ability

 

[Netserk]

Funny how in the "other" place when Verbier is brought up some people would say that it doesn't count because of the alleged tailwind while over here it's "proof" of supreme climbing ability

How many are in both groups?

 

[roundabout]

How many are in both groups?

At least 1.

 

[sir fly]

Contador has been beaten too many times during this decade to be considered as one of the all time greats.
And that's about a half of his career.

 

[BlurryVII]

By the way, I hope you guys didn't forget the 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 (dauphiné) pattern of Alberto this season, next race is Vuelta, get yourself ready for the most exciting win of the decade

 

[BlurryVII]

Contador has been beaten too many times during this decade to be considered as one of the all time greats.
And that's about a half of his career.

Wonder what you talking about, he is one of the best stage racer all time, since 2007 he's got beaten only at the Tour 2011 (One of the hardest giro route ever beforehand, and 3 crashes at the tour), Tour 2013 (Off season which every great champion has in his career) and that's about it in GTs.

Apart from Armstrong, who is the last rider to win at least a GT per season over 6 years?

 

[ILovecycling]

I can't respond. I was warned and I don't want to be suspended for the upcoming Vuelta.

All I can say is that I do not believe Contador to be the best climber. And also, a graph? I have seen it before but give me some real data and calculations before I even begin to believe those number are real.

Why? Give reasons,otherwise its only trash talk.
and if you mean clinic stuff,well then **** you

 

[Pricey_sky]

By the way, I hope you guys didn't forget the 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 (dauphiné) pattern of Alberto this season, next race is Vuelta, get yourself ready for the most exciting win of the decade

Wouldn't that be 2-1-2-1-2-DNF? So pattern over.

 

[BlurryVII]

Wouldn't that be 2-1-2-1-2-DNF? So pattern over.

The Tour doesn't count of course, the last race he finished was Dauphiné.

 

[No_Balls]

I can't respond. I was warned and I don't want to be suspended for the upcoming Vuelta.

Why? It is a different discussion. You spoke about how great it was that Alberto got booed 2011 while at the same time cheering on native dopers.

All I can say is that I do not believe Contador to be the best climber. And also, a graph? I have seen it before but give me some real data and calculations before I even begin to believe those number are real.

You asked for evidence and (while not giving the whole picture) the presented arguments are very valid in regarding the climbing greats. I'm sorry to drop the bomb but the history of cycling does not circle around your bias.

(No, i dont either think he is the best of all time. But defintively up there)

 

[the sceptic]

I can't respond. I was warned and I don't want to be suspended for the upcoming Vuelta.

All I can say is that I do not believe Contador to be the best climber. And also, a graph? I have seen it before but give me some real data and calculations before I even begin to believe those number are real.

Then be a man and go to the clinic or shut up.

 

[Walkman]

Why? Give reasons,otherwise its only trash talk.
and if you mean clinic stuff,well then **** you

Uhm…isn't it obvious?

This is freaking cycling. You don't know sh*t about who is legit and who isn't. So saying Contador is the greatest ever is just plan stupid.

 

[ILovecycling]

Uhm…isn't it obvious?

This is freaking cycling. You don't know sh*t about who is legit and who isn't. So saying Contador is the greatest ever is just plan stupid.

In this part of forum doestn exist anything like this.Pantani,Rasmussen,Landis,Riis - their climbing is what counts here,nothing else.

so its not stupid at all,you are just making fool of yourself here.

 

[BlurryVII]

Uhm…isn't it obvious?

This is freaking cycling. You don't know sh*t about who is legit and who isn't. So saying Contador is the greatest ever is just plan stupid.

Hmm, then you shouldn't judge Contador? We don't know, better leave it there.
It's just like saying Merckx is the best ever when the guy tested positive 3 times in his career
What about Indurain, best of the best during the boom of a certain doping product
What about Pantani? You should just stop the Contador bashing right now

 

[Afrank]

Settle down everyone and drop the insults.

If you want to discuss who the best is through a clinic perspective, you have the clinic. If you want to discuss it through a racing perspective, you have PRR here.

 

[Walkman]

Hmm, then you shouldn't judge Contador? We don't know, better leave it there.
It's just like saying Merckx is the best ever when the guy tested positive 3 times in his career
What about Indurain, best of the best during the boom of a certain doping product
What about Pantani? You should just stop the Contador bashing right now

I don't really get your point. I dislike all those riders. My point was that in a sport like cycling, it's crazy to talk about "the best ever".

 

[sir fly]

Wonder what you talking about, he is one of the best stage racer all time, since 2007 he's got beaten only at the Tour 2011 (One of the hardest giro route ever beforehand, and 3 crashes at the tour), Tour 2013 (Off season which every great champion has in his career) and that's about it in GTs.

Apart from Armstrong, who is the last rider to win at least a GT per season over 6 years?

Keep wondering.
In this decade he started 5 GTs and won 2 (officially 1).
The 2012 Vuelta he's won because of his tactical sense, and not because of his dominant climbing ability, which is the topic of current discussion.
His 2011 Giro victory* hasn't been achieved against the best riders at the moment.
So, during this decade he hasn't shown he can beat the best of the best.
We could talk about his 2010 season as well, but I'm sure you'll exclude from the calculation everything you dislike.

 

[Walkman]

and whats your point? he still has by far the best VAM

VAM is just one cherry picked stats that are influenced by a lot of factors such as wind, gradient, length of the climb, length of the stage, how many mountains were climbed before the final climb, average speed during the stage and how far in into the tour the stage in question is.

Hence I don't accept this one VAM diagram, without calculations, to back up the claim that Contador is best ever.