Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[BlurryVII]

1. your arguemt was that Froome has a lower average watt output than what he could have had since he had to give it all on every mountain stage (or atleast that is how I understood you), why can't it be reasonable to you that Nibalis watts are also a bit lower than what they could have been if he had the incentive to go all out?

2. that's your assumption, fine.

3. Yes, San luis, woho!!!
Look at my post to LaFlo, I have no problem admitting that ACs base level through a season togheter with an injury free Froome is higher than Nibalis.

4. I am FULLY aware of ACs tt palamares in Astana... But this is 2014, and he hasn't done a single flat tt this year. Last year he sucked, and in 12 I don't think he did one either (?). Nibali was 4th in this tour reasonablyt flat tt. Hard to be much better than that...

5. AC has been the strongest rider, and has been the strongest on average this season. This is not hard to see.

Are you serious? "Nibali was 4th in this tour reasonablyt flat tt. Hard to be much better than that" Really? That's a STRONG assumption. So a top shape Contador would certainly not beat Nibali in that TT, nice one.

5. Are you implying Nibali at his peak is better than Contador at his peak as well? LOL
Are you aassuming that Contador, 7 times GT winner can't peak for a 3 weeks july race? LOL²

Also I saw you posted a link to TA 2013, do you want me to fill up this page with every video showing AC's better abilities both in TT as well as climbing?

 

[sir fly]

People here are pretending like there was no difference between Contador and Nibali at the moment Contador abandoned and like we were still waiting to see who's on what kind of form.
Like the dropping some of the all-time classics specialists on their terrain doesn't tell anything.
And lets not forget the Sheffield stage.

 

[kingjr]

People here are pretending like there was no difference between Contador and Nibali at the moment Contador abandoned and like we were still waiting to see who's on what kind of form.
Like the dropping some of the all-time classics specialists on their terrain doesn't tell anything.

Ah come one, we all know Contador had a problem with his gears on that stage.

 

[BlurryVII]

If you base who has/had better form on how they performed throughout THIS whole season, AC still blows Nibali out of the water.

Amen to this.

 

[Walkman]

Troll-o-meter goes ding ding ding DING DING DING!!!

It's VAM. Weight and wind doesn't matter.

My bad, you are right. I got some things mixed up, although wind should by all means matter, shouldn't it?

If I ride up a mountain with a strong tailwind, I will go faster than if there was no wind or a headwind. And thus the tailwind would inflate my VAM, wouldn't it?

Dude. It's VAM. You know what that is right?

I dont say so. There are higher authorities then myself in this matter. Sure, You can never be sure but i wouldnt hold my breath against it given the circumstances in which they have been nurtured. They have been troughout studied and used as a scientific benchmark of comparing the results/levels between different eras

Yep, my bad, I know it's VAM. Got it mixed up with other stuffs so forget about that please.

However I still fell another one of the post I made reflect my line of thoughts.

VAM is just one cherry picked stats that are influenced by a lot of factors such as wind, gradient, length of the climb, length of the stage, how many mountains were climbed before the final climb, average speed during the stage and how far in into the tour the stage in question is.

So what I am saying is, that the VAM diagram earlier displayed says nothing about these facts hence it's hard to judge who's performance is the most impressive.

I am the first one to admit I don't remember how long or steep the Verbier climb is but if I recall correctly it was the first mountain stage at the 2009 tour and almost all top riders posted crazy high VAM's during that stage.

 

[kingjr]

I am the first one to admit I don't remember how long or steep the Verbier climb is but if I recall correctly it was the first mountain stage at the 2009 tour and almost all top riders posted crazy high VAM's during that stage.

Arcalis was the first. But yeah you are right in that the climb was attacked by the whole field at ridiculous speed.

 

[sir fly]

Ah come one, we all know Contador had a problem with his gears on that stage.

So what?
The stage was meant to be testing both for the riders and the equipment. It's all part of the racing.
And how does it affects the fact Nibali stormed to the Arenberg - showed extraordinary form?
What are the guarantees the excuse was genuine?

 

[LaFlorecita]

So what?
The stage was meant to be testing both for the riders and the equipment. It's all part of the racing.
And how does it affects the fact Nibali stormed to the Arenberg - showed extraordinary form?
What are the guarantees the excuse was genuine?

The Arenberg stage told us nothing about climbing shape.

 

[hfer07]

I have hesitated to post anything after Alberto stated his participation in this coming Vuelta, but I must say that is "great news" as far as the spectacle, the quality field gathering & most of all, because is always good to watch him riding..... However:

Alberto isn't the type of rider that would show up to ride without thinking of winning it-even if he fails- he's a goal orientated athlete
so there must be a "master plan" in motion to have him made up his mind ....

 

[kingjr]

So what?
The stage was meant to be testing both for the riders and the equipment. It's all part of the racing.
And how does it affects the fact Nibali stormed to the Arenberg - showed extraordinary form?
What are the guarantees the excuse was genuine?

After Arenberg we still knew nothing about the climbing form of the two. We had a clue after the stage to Gerardmer. But there Nibali said he had a problem with his gear.

What are the guarantees that Nibali's excuse was genuine?

 

[sir fly]

The Arenberg stage told us nothing about climbing shape.

Yes it did. It told us that Nibali can produce lots of Watts.

 

[Rollthedice]

For those who support Contador, please leave Nibali enjoy his holiday, the man just won Tour de France and four stages in the process wearing the yellow jersey for 19 days. He joined Contador in the group of selected few who won all three GTs, give the man some respect.

As for your Alberto, you should be more worried that it's two years since he won a GT, barely but he did it and that it's a distinct possibility that you'll have to wait another year to hope he can bring back his glory days. Until he will win again everything is just supposition.

 

[kingjr]

For those who support Contador, please leave Nibali enjoy his holiday, the man just won Tour de France and four stages in the process wearing the yellow jersey for 19 days. He joined Contador in the group of selected few who won all three GTs, give the man some respect.

What the hell man, how is Nibali's holiday affected by what we write here?

 

[sir fly]

After Arenberg we still knew nothing about the climbing form of the two. We had a clue after the stage to Gerardmer. But there Nibali said he had a problem with his gear.

What are the guarantees that Nibali's excuse was genuine?

Why are you asking me this? It wasn't me who brought up the excuses into discussion, it was you.
Read my reply to LaFlorecita about the climbing form.

 

[No_Balls]

People here are pretending like there was no difference between Contador and Nibali at the moment Contador abandoned and like we were still waiting to see who's on what kind of form.

That is not what we are saying. What we are saying is that we believe AC to be a bit better then Nibali at the moment of his retirement. Sadly, we wont find out since Nibalis hardest competitors (multi GT-winners) crashed out.

Like the dropping some of the all-time classics specialists on their terrain doesn't tell anything.
And lets not forget the Sheffield stage.

It mostly depends on a super team effort who towed him over the cobbles. On the other hand did AC enjoyed the stronger team for the mountains and with him/they still around the entire shape of the race would have looked different.

The fact that he even went for Sheffield/Arenberg was a desperate maneuver to gain time on AC/Dawg where it was the most likely for him to gain time. In hindsight its clear as a day that their whole Tour was designed for the first week and then try to limit their losses/wheelsuck to victory the rest. But after his competitors crashed the strategy was adjusted when Nibali raced against those who still was in the race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes it did. It told us that Nibali can produce lots of Watts.

So can Tony Martin

 

[LaFlorecita]

What the hell man, how is Nibali's holiday affected by what we write here?

Pretty funny

 

[Miburo]

For those who support Contador, please leave Nibali enjoy his holiday, the man just won Tour de France and four stages in the process wearing the yellow jersey for 19 days. He joined Contador in the group of selected few who won all three GTs, give the man some respect.

As for your Alberto, you should be more worried that it's two years since he won a GT, barely but he did it and that it's a distinct possibility that you'll have to wait another year to hope he can bring back his glory days. Until he will win again everything is just supposition.

Nothing to do with the fact that AC won every battle against nibali in a GT and had a way better season until now.

Why are some nibali fans ignoring that when discussing if Contador would have won? Nibali also lost time in the only MTF Contador was in it.

Last year Contador had a terrible year, it happens.

In 2012 he won the vuelta with no races in his legs.

I think you know what happened in 2011, and i don't think i need to mention what happened in the previous years? As a nibali follower which i'm assuming you are, i know you remember the beatings nibali received from Contador

So please tell me why should Contador be worried? He crushed everyone this year, the only ones that Contador should be scared off is froome and quintana

 

[kingjr]

Why are you asking me this? It wasn't me who brought up the excuses into discussion, it was you.

Do you think Nibali's excuse was genuine?

Anyway, Nibali had great team support during the stage, and if Contadors excuse is genuine he didn't even get the opportunity to show that he can keep up.

 

[BlurryVII]

For those who support Contador, please leave Nibali enjoy his holiday, the man just won Tour de France and four stages in the process wearing the yellow jersey for 19 days. He joined Contador in the group of selected few who won all three GTs, give the man some respect.

As for your Alberto, you should be more worried that it's two years since he won a GT, barely but he did it and that it's a distinct possibility that you'll have to wait another year to hope he can bring back his glory days. Until he will win again everything is just supposition.

Why would we be worried? It is just about lack of luck. He already brought back his best days during this season, but a crash prevented him from winning the Tour .

However, saying Nibali is better than AC is supposition (I'd say even bull****) since he has never proved so.
So you may say whatever you want, you will be wrong, as simple as that.

 

[sir fly]

That is not what we are saying. What we are saying is that we believe AC to be better then Nibali at the moment of his retirement. Sadly, we wont find out since Nibalis hardest competitors (multi GT-winners crashed out).



It mostly depends on a super team effort who towed him over the cobbles. On the other hand did AC enjoyed the stronger team for the mountains and with him/they still around the entire shape of the race would have looked different.

The fact that he even went for Sheffield/Arenberg was a desperate maneuver to gain time on AC/Dawg where it was the most likely for him to gain time. In hindsight its clear as a day that their whole Tour was designed for the first week and then try to limit their losses/wheelsuck to victory the rest. But after his competitors crashed the strategy was adjusted when Nibali raced against those who still was in the race.

In the first paragraph you say an absolutely sensible thing.
But by the end of the second paragraph the sense leaves you and you continue to speculate all the way to the end of the post.

 

[sir fly]

So can Tony Martin

Tony is much heavier.

 

[Miburo]

Nibali beated an old aussie, a random spanish rider and 2 frenchies.

Let him beat the best before claiming he's better than the best

 

[sir fly]

Do you think Nibali's excuse was genuine?

Anyway, Nibali had great team support during the stage, and if Contadors excuse is genuine he didn't even get the opportunity to show that he can keep up.

Why should I care about Nibali's excuse?
It's you who takes excuses into account.

 

[kingjr]

But by the end of the second paragraph the sense leaves you .

It's speculation but it makes sense, Contador would have needed to attack at pretty much every opportunity to get back as much time as possible. We defnitely would have seen a different race.

Why should I care about Nibali's excuse?
It's you who takes excuses into account.

So we can say Contador dropped Nibali to Gerardmer cause he was better, right?