Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[ferryman]

And Contador hasn't pushed an in form Froome in the mountains either.

In the Vuelta TT Froome lost to him by 53 seconds - he finished tenth, the first time he has been out of the top three in a Grand Tour time trial since 2010, which suggests he may have been off form.

In his previous five time trials against Contador, Froome has won by 8 seconds, 9s, 123s, 166s and 15s

No problem with those stats against a ITT demigod time trialer like Froome. Maybe an off form Contador with the biggies eh.

Unless it is dead pan straight, and even if it is, a fit and motivated Contador is unlikely to lose that sort of time again. Now if it is at all lumpy (and god forbid cold and technical) and without that inhaler..

 

[Parker]

2013

but yes normally Froome is a better TTer... but Contador is not a whole lot worse... like I have always said Alberto on top form loses 1-1.5s per km against the best TTers

Oh, I agree that two of those times flatter Froome. But the thing with Schleck was that Contador could always be assured of getting about two minutes over him in TTs over the course of a GT. And give an on form Contador two minutes and nobody's getting it back.

Unless it is dead pan straight, and even if it is, a fit and motivated Contador is unlikely to lose that sort of time again.

True, but he'll never get the two minute advantage he could bank on from Schleck. And that's why Froome is a greater threat to him than Schleck ever was.

 

[LaFlorecita]

But the thing with Schleck was that Contador could always be assured of getting about two minutes over him in TTs over the course of a GT.

Yes I agree, that was also the point I made earlier

 

[TANK91]

And Contador hasn't pushed an in form Froome in the mountains either.

In the Vuelta TT Froome lost to him by 53 seconds - he finished tenth, the first time he has been out of the top three in a Grand Tour time trial since 2010, which suggests he may have been off form.

In his previous five time trials against Contador, Froome has won by 8 seconds, 9s, 123s, 166s and 15s

You are spot on can not it both ways, Contador has not beat on form Froome and same vice versa. They both had better years it is hard to compare. Dauphinee is the only race last year where we know both were strong, they were equal uphill and a little edge to Froome in the prologue. Schleck was always at a deficit because the ITT, Schleck was strong in 2010 vs him i give it that but i doubt Contador was as good.

 

[Angliru]

Just because Contador said it, it doesn't make it true. Contador always had a big time trial advantage over Schleck. He doesn't have that with Froome.

Contador was just trying to pay respect to the rivalry that existed between he and Andy in response to the official news of his retirement. It wasn't meant as a slight to Froome at all and shouldn't be taken that way. They battled in 2009, 2010 and 2011, all years where Contador was at the height of his powers although the 2011 was compromised by his participation in the Giro and multiple crashes at the Tour. We have yet to see Froome and Contador at the Tour the peak of their forms at the same time. We lost that opportunity at this year's Tour when they both crashed DNF'd.

 

[TANK91]

Giro '08 was clutch but at the same time his rivals were ***.

Iirc Contador dropped on a mountain at like 80 km from the finish but they didn't do anything with it.

Thats why i think he is great 2 GT wins he should not have won yet he won them, not may can win GT's not being the strongest. Giro 2008 and VaE 2012 was unbelievable how he won them. Im a fan of Froome and he as not done that he tried this year in la Vuelta, with Contador it is never over. The 2013 TDF people were thinking he could still win the race when he was minutes down.

 

[rhubroma]

You are spot on can not it both ways, Contador has not beat on form Froome and same vice versa. They both had better years it is hard to compare. Dauphinee is the only race last year where we know both were strong, they were equal uphill and a little edge to Froome in the prologue. Schleck was always at a deficit because the ITT, Schleck was strong in 2010 vs him i give it that but i doubt Contador was as good.

Although for years Froome wasn't up to par, but then exploded on the scene like a White Knight. Besides who says that Alberto wasn't in the same condition as Froome at the beginning of the Vuelta?

 

[Angliru]

A rival is someone that you have had battles with and is close to being your equal in those battles. With the exception of this year's Vuelta Contador hasn't really been in the same level as Froome in the grand tours that they have both competed in. Contador acknowledges Froome is the strongest opponent he's faced while his battles with Andy is/was his greatest rivalry.

 

[Parker]

Contador was just trying to pay respect to the rivalry that existed between he and Andy in response to the official news of his retirement. It wasn't meant as a slight to Froome at all and shouldn't be taken that way. They battled in 2009, 2010 and 2011, all years where Contador was at the height of his powers although the 2011 was compromised by his participation in the Giro and multiple crashes at the Tour. We have yet to see Froome and Contador at the Tour the peak of their forms at the same time. We lost that opportunity at this year's Tour when they both crashed DNF'd.

Oh, I know all that. But I and others were responding to Ferryman using Contador's comments as some sort of gospel truth to mock another poster with.

 

[Angliru]

Just because Contador said it, it doesn't make it true. Contador always had a big time trial advantage over Schleck. He doesn't have that with Froome.

It's true to him. It's his opinion of who his biggest rival is/was and who was the strongest rider he's faced. They are two different things altogether.

 

[BlurryVII]

Besides who says that Alberto wasn't in the same condition as Froome at the beginning of the Vuelta?

Absolutely true, it's seems like it is a given for some people that Froome's condition was worse than Contador's at the Vuelta because he came 2nd.

AC just beat him in equal terms end of story. There's absolutely nothing which would indicate Froome's form was worse.
And if anything, it's in favor of Contador since he had a worse injury and less time to prepare.

I'll admit that Froome had that crash in the first week , which certainly had an impact since he looked good on La Zubia so it probably took that spark out of him for the second week.
But then he managed to ride himself into a good form for the last week, however the stronger rider still came out on top.

 

[greenedge]

What do you make of Contador calling Froome his strongest rival ever, then? Biggest rival =/= strongest rival. With Schleck he's fought out the biggest battles, Froome is a much stronger rival as he's his equal uphill, and a stronger time trialler. Schleck was at best close to Contador in top shape uphill, and a much worse time trialler.

Shleck was stronger in the 2010 TDF uphill.

 

[The_Juan]

Don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but Alberto has done nothing but hand Froome his a$$ back since he beat him at the TdF back in 2012. Not only that, Contador literally shellacked Chris this past year, rising up to everyone of the Kenyan's challenges and then dropping him like a bad fever time and time again.

And this was an in-shape Froome mind you. He pulled 2012 Mont Ventoux-style accelerations at the DL and the Vuelta and, this time around, he wasn't able to do anything about it because an in-shape Alberto Contador can beat anyone at any moment, including a supercharged Froome.

Bottom line Alberto has already found a way to beat him and there's nothing Chris can do about it. I digress, there is, but I'd have to take it to the clinic.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but Alberto has done nothing but hand Froome his a$$ back since he beat him at the TdF back in 2012. Not only that, Contador literally shellacked Chris this past year, rising up to everyone of the Kenyan's challenges and then dropping him like a bad fever time and time again.

And this was an in-shape Froome mind you. He pulled 2012 Mont Ventoux-style accelerations at the DL and the Vuelta and, this time around, he wasn't able to do anything about it because an in-shape Alberto Contador can beat anyone at any moment, including a supercharged Froome.

Bottom line Alberto has already found a way to beat him and there's nothing Chris can do about it. I digress, there is, but I'd have to take it to the clinic.

Apart from on that stage of the Dauphine your talking about Froome beat Contador. Contador even admitted afterwards it was all he could do just to try and not lose Froome's wheel and could not even attempt to get past to win the stage. We were robbed of a great battle in the Tour but for now we hope that we can have one next July. I hope Alberto has a pretty easy Giro so he can arrive at the Tour in super form again.

 

[contador977]

You are really pushing this rubbish. You can post away as far as I'm concerned unmodded and I will continue to feel a bit sorry for you that you are hurting so much. In the words of Contador himself:

“Andy was my biggest rival, much more so than Froome, who has only arrived in the past two years,”

I take this as more of paying respect to him post retirement, nothing more nothing less. Get your head out of your .....

A.Schleck never disposed of Contador in the fashion that Froome did to Contador on Ventoux and this year at the Dauphine had Contador at his limit before the crash. Get your facts straight. U can argue Schleck and Contador are equal on climbs but Contador was superior in the TT, but with Froome its advantage Froome in the long TT and in the mountains he is as good as anyone. In Contadors words...

"I think Froome is the strongest rival I have come across in my whole career. Maybe in this tour he is finding it a bit harder, but given the quality he has you always have to have the maximum respect and never count him out."

http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-niemiec-wins-15th-stage-contadors-vuelta-lead-cut-2014-9

 

[TANK91]

Don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but Alberto has done nothing but hand Froome his a$$ back since he beat him at the TdF back in 2012. Not only that, Contador literally shellacked Chris this past year, rising up to everyone of the Kenyan's challenges and then dropping him like a bad fever time and time again.

And this was an in-shape Froome mind you. He pulled 2012 Mont Ventoux-style accelerations at the DL and the Vuelta and, this time around, he wasn't able to do anything about it because an in-shape Alberto Contador can beat anyone at any moment, including a supercharged Froome.

Bottom line Alberto has already found a way to beat him and there's nothing Chris can do about it. I digress, there is, but I'd have to take it to the clinic.

No Contador at the TDF 2012, the only race Contador dropped Froome in really is La Vuelta. Froome destroyed Alberto last year atleast 2 times eachstage race. Contador dropped Froome in Dauphinee but Froome crashed bad you make it seem like Froome was bad he won Romandie, 2nd in Vuelta and beat Contador twice in the Duaphinee, beat him in a short ITT, and drove all climb and Contador could not pass, so where you get he is been getting dropped all year i do not know.

 

[TANK91]

I can not take it serious saying how do we know how good they were in La Vuelta, i think it is very obvious did you see Froome climbing? Tell me that is same as the Dauphinee guy he had zero accelration in the Vuelta was always riding near the back for the most part, that is not his style. I suggest people actually go rewatch, Froome was barely beating Valverde who did the TDF and could not even podium ahead of Peraud.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Shleck was stronger in the 2010 TDF uphill.

I'd say they were equal, and Contador wasn't anywhere near his best

 

[lebbegehtweider]

Shleck was stronger in the 2010 TDF uphill.

Schleck gained 10s in Avoriaz and lost 10s in Mende. In all other mountain stages they finished in the same time (except for the Bales stage where Schleck lost some time according to his mechanical). Why do you think Schleck was better in the mountains?

 

[Red Rick]

Contador was terrible on Avoriaz, Riis was urgin Schleck to attack the whole climb and Contador had been afraid of losing minutes that day, whilst the finishing climb was absolutely nothing special. Contador was good that year, but nothing special

 

[Dr. Juice]

Contador was terrible on Avoriaz, Riis was urgin Schleck to attack the whole climb and Contador had been afraid of losing minutes that day, whilst the finishing climb was absolutely nothing special. Contador was good that year, but nothing special

And like always, the time trial gives you an indication of his form. When his form is great, his TTing is superb. When he is at 90% it's still ok and when he is below 85 % his TTing gets average.
Okay, his form was surely better than what he showed in the TT but you get the message. His form was clearly worse than in 2009. I would say his form in 2012 was not worse than in 2010. We didn't have super Purito in 2010 yet.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Contador was terrible on Avoriaz, Riis was urgin Schleck to attack the whole climb and Contador had been afraid of losing minutes that day, whilst the finishing climb was absolutely nothing special. Contador was good that year, but nothing special

wasn't that the climb Contador bluffed by ordering Navarro to ride on the front for the entire climb.

 

[Dr. Juice]

wasn't that the climb Contador bluffed by ordering Navarro to ride on the front for the entire climb.

Yeah you're right.

 

[BlurryVII]

so where you get he is been getting dropped all year i do not know.

Catalunya twice (valter 2000 + molina) - Dauphiné twice (emosson + montagny) - Vuelta ( 4 times: Valdélinéares + Convadonga + Farrapona + Ancares ) .

Technically, Contador dropped Froome 8 times this year. So you can safely say he's been getting dropped all year.

You can argue Froome wasn't at his best, Contador was worse than ever in 2013.

Also, Froome did one hell of a show on Ancares and Farrapona to a lesser extent, the 3rd week Vuelta 14' Froome is arguably much better than 3rd week Tour 13' Froome when he was being quite average with harmless accelerations (alpe d'huez + semnoz) .

 

[BlurryVII]

Froome was very good in the last week of the Vuelta 14", I don't think many people realize this.
If Contador wasn't there, All we would have seen is Froome smoking Valverde and Rodriguez by over 50 secs on both Ancares and Farrapona.


Everyone would have said 'Froome is back to his best" but I think that mainly Contador made him look like he was in poor shape by dropping him quite easily both times.