Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[The Hitch]

Its not just about the TDF being the most important but about the narrative that Contador's best ended at the end of the last decade and that he has been an average rider since. Some even add that he can no longer "use drugs" at the TDF and that's why he doesn't win there. Not my opinion but they are popular narratives and the only way to put them to bed is to win another TDF.

 

[SeriousSam]

Exactly. More than anything else, Contador needs to win the Tour against Nibali, Quintana and Froome all peaking for it to cement his legacy and to dispel the notion that he hasn't been the same since his come back and that, therefore, something (cough cough) aided him before his ban. Much is at stake here.

If you care about his actual legacy, the Tour is everything. It's also the biggest race, much bigger than the Giro. Only by indulging in solipsism could you ever come to believe winning the Giro is preferable to winning the Tour.

 

[Electress]

Re:

Its not just about the TDF being the most important but about the narrative that Contador's best ended at the end of the last decade and that he has been an average rider since. Some even add that he can no longer "use drugs" at the TDF and that's why he doesn't win there. Not my opinion but they are popular narratives and the only way to put them to bed is to win another TDF.

Some people have a very strange view of what 'average' means.

I fear that nothing will ever put that narrative to bed. Pointless trying.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Its not just about the TDF being the most important but about the narrative that Contador's best ended at the end of the last decade and that he has been an average rider since. Some even add that he can no longer "use drugs" at the TDF and that's why he doesn't win there. Not my opinion but they are popular narratives and the only way to put them to bed is to win another TDF.

Some people have a very strange view of what 'average' means.

I fear that nothing will ever put that narrative to bed. Pointless trying.

Huh?
You sound like someone who just wants to give up.
Winning the Tour de France will quite clearly put it to bed

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Exactly. More than anything else, Contador needs to win the Tour against Nibali, Quintana and Froome all peaking for it to cement his legacy and to dispel the notion that he hasn't been the same since his come back and that, therefore, something (cough cough) aided him before his ban. Much is at stake here.

If you care about his actual legacy, the Tour is everything. It's also the biggest race, much bigger than the Giro. Only by indulging in solipsism could you ever come to believe winning the Giro is preferable to winning the Tour.

The Tour won't do anything for his legacy, it will be just another GT, only a GT double, preferably Giro-Tour, will make him a true great

 

[hrotha]

Didn't people here say he absolutely needed to win another Tour for the sake of his legacy, since the last one was so long ago, or did I dream that up?

 

[Eshnar]

There's the Clinic for that kind of narrative Hitch. I thought you would know it by now.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

Taking control:

 

[Jack_89]

Re: Re:

Absolutely true, an other single GT does not add anything to his career. But double put him with the greatest

quote="LaFlorecita"]

Exactly. More than anything else, Contador needs to win the Tour against Nibali, Quintana and Froome all peaking for it to cement his legacy and to dispel the notion that he hasn't been the same since his come back and that, therefore, something (cough cough) aided him before his ban. Much is at stake here.

If you care about his actual legacy, the Tour is everything. It's also the biggest race, much bigger than the Giro. Only by indulging in solipsism could you ever come to believe winning the Giro is preferable to winning the Tour.

The Tour won't do anything for his legacy, it will be just another GT, only a GT double, preferably Giro-Tour, will make him a true great[/quote]

A

 

[Squirbos_19]

Re:

Didn't people here say he absolutely needed to win another Tour for the sake of his legacy, since the last one was so long ago, or did I dream that up?

Don't think you were dreaming. I remember the same things, or maybe I dreamed that too
I'd love it if he could get to 10 GT wins but that'll be tough especially as it seems he wants to retire early. Then again if he conquers the Giro-Tour that'll get him to 8. Either way he's won enough to be remembered as one of the greats.

 

[SeriousSam]

Diminishing of the Tour as just another GT that doesn't change his legacy is simply absurd. First, because winning any GT is a huge thing and a valuable entry on someone's palmares, regardless of how many you have won. Second, because the Tour is by far the most coveted price in cycling. Third, because of the context with Contador, see Hitch's post.

It seems Contador fans downplaying the importance of the Tour are doing nothing but this:

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

Absolutely true, an other single GT does not add anything to his career. But double put him with the greatest

quote="LaFlorecita"]

Exactly. More than anything else, Contador needs to win the Tour against Nibali, Quintana and Froome all peaking for it to cement his legacy and to dispel the notion that he hasn't been the same since his come back and that, therefore, something (cough cough) aided him before his ban. Much is at stake here.

If you care about his actual legacy, the Tour is everything. It's also the biggest race, much bigger than the Giro. Only by indulging in solipsism could you ever come to believe winning the Giro is preferable to winning the Tour.

The Tour won't do anything for his legacy, it will be just another GT, only a GT double, preferably Giro-Tour, will make him a true great

A[/quote]

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

He won 8 GTs including 3 Tours (I know, not officially, but in the minds of him and many fans)
It is obvious that just a Tour win would not mean much
By the way I think Alberto will reach 10GTs, not officially though, as I can't see him winning 4 more

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Didn't people here say he absolutely needed to win another Tour for the sake of his legacy, since the last one was so long ago, or did I dream that up?

People who said that probably didnt believe he is again that pre-ban AC, which is BS of course and they should be ashamed if they're his fans.I've (and lot of other people here) never said that, because he's got nothing to prove us after all those accomplishments after 2011.

Tour means nothing, he's got 2 (writing this cuz you would whinned again) wins from that race, another doesnt matter for his legacy.With Double he will probably be one of the best cyclist in history.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Diminishing of the Tour as just another GT that doesn't change his legacy is simply absurd. First, because winning any GT is a huge thing and a valuable entry on someone's palmares, regardless of how many you have won. Second, because the Tour is by far the most coveted price in cycling. Third, because of the context with Contador, see Hitch's post.

It seems Contador fans downplaying the importance of the Tour are doing nothing but this:

How many Giro's has Gimondi won, how many GT?How many has Bartali won?

I doubt you'll know that, because its pointless.

And what Hitch said is bs, he probably talks to wrong people, nobody has every said that to me.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

At the start:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tZiGYBNkjow

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

At the start:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tZiGYBNkjow

Thanks a lot! Important video.

 

[SeriousSam]

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Steven de Jongh's partner tweeted something about months of hard work being ruined by a guy wanting a picture, doesn't sound too optimistic.

Ohh my


edit:also dont post pictures of freakin tinkov in this thread please

i really don't get it. You can get so many better pictures for the race photographer. And they are all can be downloaded for free. How that does different? Those type of pic from spectator has never been that good anyway. Is it just a matter for bragging rights? oh i got so and so pictures on my camera. Riders already have problems with just containing themselves to not crash because of the way the sport is, lately it has been added with stupid organizer caravan hitting the riders and spectator causing the crash. Unbelievable.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

"Decisive"? tell me, 6 or 7 GTs/8 or 9 GTs, is it a big difference?
The double would mean 1000x more for his legacy than "just" another Tour win.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

What kind of alternative is this? You just made totally unempiric conclusion, there is no such a thing - People A, People B.I dont belong to any of those you wrote, cuz they dont exist you cant just divide people opinions to 2 groups and say its like That or like That.

Its a post which tries to be smart ,but its bs afterall.

 

[Jelantik]

of course winning the Tour is important. I think the thought is not just about winning another Tour, sure people will remember. But also winning the double makes people remember with a lot more admiration. There's a little additional "umph" winning the double. There's something about the fact no one has ever completed since Pantani makes it an interesting challenge. So it's not just about of how many Lemond won the Tour? yes everyone remember. How many so and so won the Giro? no one remembers. That's true. But people also remember who has won the last Giro-Tour double? And because people think is impossible to achieve double in modern cycling, makes winning it for Contador will cement his legacy further. No active riders currently has won 8 GTs (on the road), winning another GT in his eyes is just another collection of his tally. IMHO. We might disagree as a fan, but none of us riding GT and let alone won all 3 GT multiple times either

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

"Decisive"? tell me, 6 or 7 GTs/8 or 9 GTs, is it a big difference?
The double would mean 1000x more for his legacy than "just" another Tour win.

Well you are right about it,the double is another level.But what i don't get it is why people diminish his Vuelta wins.I think those are great achievements for Contador.I always ranked Giro as the 3rd GT and never changed my options during the years.I think those wins should be appreciated at their true value.And i'm still pissed about J.Rod losing that damn Vuelta.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

He won 8 GTs including 3 Tours (I know, not officially, but in the minds of him and many fans)
It is obvious that just a Tour win would not mean much
By the way I think Alberto will reach 10GTs, not officially though, as I can't see him winning 4 more

And Lance has 7 Tour victories, right?

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

He won 8 GTs including 3 Tours (I know, not officially, but in the minds of him and many fans)
It is obvious that just a Tour win would not mean much
By the way I think Alberto will reach 10GTs, not officially though, as I can't see him winning 4 more

And Lance has 7 Tour victories, right?

Yes of course. Duh. And Indurain has 7 GTs. Merckx has 11. Your point being?