Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

"Decisive"? tell me, 6 or 7 GTs/8 or 9 GTs, is it a big difference?
The double would mean 1000x more for his legacy than "just" another Tour win.

Every time this argument keeps coming up, I keep thinking. If the double is so much more important than another Tour. Why didn't Contador go for the double in 2014 or 2013? In fact even in 2012 he said wasn't going to do the giro if he wasn't banned.

The obvious answer is that he is now thinking about retirement, and is wondering what he really wants to have done before he says goodbye, and that's the double/triple

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Also if Contador's legacy is so important, why do all of you go full Jihad on me everytime I criticize Contador for not bothering with the WC, or monuments?

Cos you know what would actually be way more valuable to Contador's legacy than "another gt". A **** world championship. But everytime a course comes up that Contador could win on, he doesn't bother and all of you get really upset with me for suggesting he's making the wrong decision.

Monuments to some extent too.

Because he clearly is not good enough(different skills) to win WC.
Maybe WC in Boyaca, but I doubt.

lol.

Some people are so far behind in a race, they actually believe they are winning.

I agree with ILoveCycling, Alberto could win a WC but his chances are very small, he needs a better sprint, then he would have a decent chance on hilly courses like WC 2012-2013-2014

 

[Carols]

The good news is he has done well for 200+km.....we shall see how he does in the finale when they speed up!

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

The good news is he has done well for 200+km.....we shall see how he does in the finale when they speed up!

yep, fingers crossed

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

The good news is he has done well for 200+km.....we shall see how he does in the finale when they speed up!

yep, fingers crossed

At the rate they are moving I may not be here for the end I have to leave in 1 hour 15 min.

They just showed him, looks okay

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

The good news is he has done well for 200+km.....we shall see how he does in the finale when they speed up!

yep, fingers crossed

At the rate they are moving I may not be here for the end I have to leave in 1 hour 15 min.

They just showed him, looks okay

I think he looked a bit less relaxed than usual (its no wonder tho )

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

The good news is he has done well for 200+km.....we shall see how he does in the finale when they speed up!

yep, fingers crossed

At the rate they are moving I may not be here for the end I have to leave in 1 hour 15 min.

They just showed him, looks okay

I think he looked a bit less relaxed than usual (its no wonder tho )

That is why I said okay instead of good.....

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Also if Contador's legacy is so important, why do all of you go full Jihad on me everytime I criticize Contador for not bothering with the WC, or monuments?

Cos you know what would actually be way more valuable to Contador's legacy than "another gt". A **** world championship. But everytime a course comes up that Contador could win on, he doesn't bother and all of you get really upset with me for suggesting he's making the wrong decision.

Monuments to some extent too.

It's his decision to make. His career. Our opinion of what is and isn't important really has no bearing on how someone else manages their livlihood. In the tradition of the Spanish greats before him, world road championships and classics just were not seen as being more important than the grand tours. It wasn't until Olano to lesser extent, Mayo, Etxabarria, Freire, Flecha, Valverde and Purito came along that riders of his country began placing an importance on these races. Really it's pretty obvious what he believes his legacy as a rider is built upon, and it's the grand tours.

 

[lenric]

Contador doesn't have the physical profile required to win the WC. Unless it ends in Alpe d'Huez.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Contador doesn't have the physical profile required to win the WC. Unless it ends in Alpe d'Huez.

I dont think it has to be such a mountain, but it has to be that big to eliminate Murito and Piti advantage of punch.
Also ...Hello, I havent seen you for a while here

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Also if Contador's legacy is so important, why do all of you go full Jihad on me everytime I criticize Contador for not bothering with the WC, or monuments?

Cos you know what would actually be way more valuable to Contador's legacy than "another gt". A **** world championship. But everytime a course comes up that Contador could win on, he doesn't bother and all of you get really upset with me for suggesting he's making the wrong decision.

Monuments to some extent too.

Because he clearly is not good enough(different skills) to win WC.
Maybe WC in Boyaca, but I doubt.

lol.

Some people are so far behind in a race, they actually believe they are winning.

I agree with ILoveCycling, Alberto could win a WC but his chances are very small, he needs a better sprint, then he would have a decent chance on hilly courses like WC 2012-2013-2014

Races on challenging parcours go to sprints when the riders are more or less even. or if they are raced conservatively.

If someone races it hard it becomes a hard race. Liege Bastogne Liege is these days a glorified sprint. Yet in another year, on the same parcors, Andy Schleck won it, solo, by attacking 30k out.

The olympic road race in 2012 was supposed to be a sprint with Cav as the favourite. In a dry run the year before it had been a bunch sprint. Who contested the win? 2 gt riders. Why? Because it was made hard.

if Verbier Contador turns up to the Firenze worlds and attacks a few times on Fiesole, he crosses the line before the rest of the peloton have even finished climbing.

Its not even like there aren't examples of Contador doing this. When he attacked on Col de Manse on what is hardly the worlds hardest climb, he in a minute reduced the entire peloton to a field of 3 and took a minute on all but 2 of his rivals (was going to attack again). Fuente de was an even easier parcors and he won that and destroyed Murito and Froome.
Just look at Wednsday and the way he reduced a field of 20 to a field of 4 with 1 attack.

Contador goes on form to the worlds with a very strong Spanish team, attacks at points in the race,there is no sprint at the end I guarantee you that. What you get instead is a crawl mighty fight between the strongest riders and no one else.

Who is going to win that. The strongest riders. And peak Contador is stronger than anyone else. He came top 10 in Lombardia once and top 10 in Liege and both times he wasn't his strongest. Not built for 1 day races? please. Murito and Andy Schleck are far less well built and talented for them and both have won monuments.

What happens if a peak Contador tries 1 day races? I see nothing but good things.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Also if Contador's legacy is so important, why do all of you go full Jihad on me everytime I criticize Contador for not bothering with the WC, or monuments?

Cos you know what would actually be way more valuable to Contador's legacy than "another gt". A **** world championship. But everytime a course comes up that Contador could win on, he doesn't bother and all of you get really upset with me for suggesting he's making the wrong decision.

Monuments to some extent too.

Because he clearly is not good enough(different skills) to win WC.
Maybe WC in Boyaca, but I doubt.

lol.

Some people are so far behind in a race, they actually believe they are winning.

I agree with ILoveCycling, Alberto could win a WC but his chances are very small, he needs a better sprint, then he would have a decent chance on hilly courses like WC 2012-2013-2014

Races on challenging parcours go to sprints when the riders are more or less even. or if they are raced conservatively.

If someone races it hard it becomes a hard race. Liege Bastogne Liege is these days a glorified sprint. Yet in another year, on the same parcors, Andy Schleck won it, solo, by attacking 30k out.

The olympic road race in 2012 was supposed to be a sprint with Cav as the favourite. In a dry run the year before it had been a bunch sprint. Who contested the win? 2 gt riders. Why? Because it was made hard.

if Verbier Contador turns up to the Firenze worlds and attacks a few times on Fiesole, he crosses the line before the rest of the peloton have even finished climbing.

Its not even like there aren't examples of Contador doing this. When he attacked on Col de Manse on what is hardly the worlds hardest climb, he in a minute reduced the entire peloton to a field of 3 and took a minute on all but 2 of his rivals (was going to attack again). Fuente de was an even easier parcors and he won that and destroyed Murito and Froome.
Just look at Wednsday and the way he reduced a field of 20 to a field of 4 with 1 attack.

Contador goes on form to the worlds with a very strong Spanish team, attacks at points in the race,there is no sprint at the end I guarantee you that. What you get instead is a crawl mighty fight between the strongest riders and no one else.

Who is going to win that. The strongest riders. And peak Contador is stronger than anyone else. He came top 10 in Lombardia once and top 10 in Liege and both times he wasn't his strongest. Not built for 1 day races? please. Murito and Andy Schleck are far less well built and talented for them and both have won monuments.

What happens if a peak Contador tries 1 day races? I see nothing but good things.

Good post,but you forgot the most important feature.All of your examples happened in a GT 2nd and 3rd weeks, this doesnt have almost anything in common with a race like WC.
I agree with you he would have a chance if its raced super-hard, but I cant see that coming, firstly because it didnt happen few years now (Firenze was hard with parcourse not pace), secondly cuz of Valverde in spanish team, he is their best chance FTW (lol ) and he doesnt need hard race.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Contador doesn't have the physical profile required to win the WC. Unless it ends in Alpe d'Huez.

I dont think it has to be such a mountain, but it has to be that big to eliminate Murito and Piti advantage of punch.
Also ...Hello, I havent seen you for a while here

Hello mate, good to read you

A train made of riders interested in winning, such as England and Italy, could very well catch Contador, even when he's ascending a mountain, so yeah, I think it had to be really hard. Valverde or Rodriguez wouldn't be a threat, since they're all spanish

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Contador doesn't have the physical profile required to win the WC. Unless it ends in Alpe d'Huez.

I dont think it has to be such a mountain, but it has to be that big to eliminate Murito and Piti advantage of punch.
Also ...Hello, I havent seen you for a while here

Hello mate, good to read you

A train made of riders interested in winning, such as England and Italy, could very well catch Contador, even when he's ascending a mountain, so yeah, I think it had to be really hard. Valverde or Rodriguez wouldn't be a threat, since they're all spanish

Problem is that if the course is not hard enough they (Murito,Piti) will be leaders as they are better punchers than AC, and he will have only free role.IMHO

 

[Carols]

They made him a jersey that he didn't have to lift his arm to put on. How cool is that?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/sewing-a-custom-pink-jersey-for-injured-contador_370340

 

[LaFlorecita]

They made him a jersey that he didn't have to lift his arm to put on. How cool is that?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/sewing-a-custom-pink-jersey-for-injured-contador_370340

Podium ceremony jersey, I guess? I hope we'll see it in action

 

[LaFlorecita]

Bravo Berto! Now for some rest, tomorrow will reveal everything

 

[ILovecycling]

YES

 

[Jelantik]

Great ride by the team. They rallied, supported and took care of him during the race. That should be counted a winning feel by itself. Hope he has another goodnight sleep tonight and his shoulder finally settles down. Tomorrow is another hard stage.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Because he clearly is not good enough(different skills) to win WC.
Maybe WC in Boyaca, but I doubt.

lol.

Some people are so far behind in a race, they actually believe they are winning.

I agree with ILoveCycling, Alberto could win a WC but his chances are very small, he needs a better sprint, then he would have a decent chance on hilly courses like WC 2012-2013-2014

Races on challenging parcours go to sprints when the riders are more or less even. or if they are raced conservatively.

If someone races it hard it becomes a hard race. Liege Bastogne Liege is these days a glorified sprint. Yet in another year, on the same parcors, Andy Schleck won it, solo, by attacking 30k out.

The olympic road race in 2012 was supposed to be a sprint with Cav as the favourite. In a dry run the year before it had been a bunch sprint. Who contested the win? 2 gt riders. Why? Because it was made hard.

if Verbier Contador turns up to the Firenze worlds and attacks a few times on Fiesole, he crosses the line before the rest of the peloton have even finished climbing.

Its not even like there aren't examples of Contador doing this. When he attacked on Col de Manse on what is hardly the worlds hardest climb, he in a minute reduced the entire peloton to a field of 3 and took a minute on all but 2 of his rivals (was going to attack again). Fuente de was an even easier parcors and he won that and destroyed Murito and Froome.
Just look at Wednsday and the way he reduced a field of 20 to a field of 4 with 1 attack.

Contador goes on form to the worlds with a very strong Spanish team, attacks at points in the race,there is no sprint at the end I guarantee you that. What you get instead is a crawl mighty fight between the strongest riders and no one else.

Who is going to win that. The strongest riders. And peak Contador is stronger than anyone else. He came top 10 in Lombardia once and top 10 in Liege and both times he wasn't his strongest. Not built for 1 day races? please. Murito and Andy Schleck are far less well built and talented for them and both have won monuments.

What happens if a peak Contador tries 1 day races? I see nothing but good things.

Good post,but you forgot the most important feature.All of your examples happened in a GT 2nd and 3rd weeks, this doesnt have almost anything in common with a race like WC.
I agree with you he would have a chance if its raced super-hard, but I cant see that coming, firstly because it didnt happen few years now (Firenze was hard with parcourse not pace), secondly cuz of Valverde in spanish team, he is their best chance FTW (lol ) and he doesnt need hard race.

Doesn't matter that it was 2nd and 3rd week since Contador has in the past put up better wattages in the 3rd week than other riders can do in the 1st.

Also Andy Schleck, Lance Armstrong, Joaquim Rodriguez, Cadel Evans, Alejandro Valverde, all also did best in 3rd week in gts but still won big 1 day races.

Why is it that every gt rider that takes classics remotely seriously becomes a contender in them? Even Sastre once almost won CSS. Even Basso has fought for Lombardia numerous times.

The idea that the greatest gt rider of his era is somehow unsuited to classics which have thousands of ascent metres that have always been dominated by climbers, is an idea that is limited almost exclusively to Contador fans in Contador threads searching for excuses as to why Contador doesn't do classics.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He doesn't focus on classics because he doesn't want to. End of story.

 

[hfer07]

He looked quite well, considering his injury- perhaps the gravity of it was exaggerated- although- on RAI he said because of the length of today's stage, he was feeling very uncomfortable after the 4th hour of racing, which was a burden-but his aim was to finish it safe, get back to the hotel ASAP to put some Ice on the shoulder & rest.
mission accomplish & tomorrow is the real challenge

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Also if Contador's legacy is so important, why do all of you go full Jihad on me everytime I criticize Contador for not bothering with the WC, or monuments?

Cos you know what would actually be way more valuable to Contador's legacy than "another gt". A **** world championship. But everytime a course comes up that Contador could win on, he doesn't bother and all of you get really upset with me for suggesting he's making the wrong decision.

Monuments to some extent too.

Because he clearly is not good enough(different skills) to win WC.
Maybe WC in Boyaca, but I doubt.

lol.

Some people are so far behind in a race, they actually believe they are winning.

I agree with ILoveCycling, Alberto could win a WC but his chances are very small, he needs a better sprint, then he would have a decent chance on hilly courses like WC 2012-2013-2014

Races on challenging parcours go to sprints when the riders are more or less even. or if they are raced conservatively.

If someone races it hard it becomes a hard race. Liege Bastogne Liege is these days a glorified sprint. Yet in another year, on the same parcors, Andy Schleck won it, solo, by attacking 30k out.

The olympic road race in 2012 was supposed to be a sprint with Cav as the favourite. In a dry run the year before it had been a bunch sprint. Who contested the win? 2 gt riders. Why? Because it was made hard.

if Verbier Contador turns up to the Firenze worlds and attacks a few times on Fiesole, he crosses the line before the rest of the peloton have even finished climbing.

Its not even like there aren't examples of Contador doing this. When he attacked on Col de Manse on what is hardly the worlds hardest climb, he in a minute reduced the entire peloton to a field of 3 and took a minute on all but 2 of his rivals (was going to attack again). Fuente de was an even easier parcors and he won that and destroyed Murito and Froome.
Just look at Wednsday and the way he reduced a field of 20 to a field of 4 with 1 attack.

Contador goes on form to the worlds with a very strong Spanish team, attacks at points in the race,there is no sprint at the end I guarantee you that. What you get instead is a crawl mighty fight between the strongest riders and no one else.

Who is going to win that. The strongest riders. And peak Contador is stronger than anyone else. He came top 10 in Lombardia once and top 10 in Liege and both times he wasn't his strongest. Not built for 1 day races? please. Murito and Andy Schleck are far less well built and talented for them and both have won monuments.

What happens if a peak Contador tries 1 day races? I see nothing but good things.

I wish he had focused more on the one day races too. I think he could have won LBL, GdL but it's just not important to him I guess. Like you said in some eyes it effects his legacy and in others it doesn't. I'm content with his choices as I feel they fit into how best it was for him to achieve his own personal goals. He's been entertaining and a formidable opponent in most of the events that he targeted to win.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

He looked quite well, considering his injury- perhaps the gravity of it was exaggerated- although- on RAI he said because of the length of today's stage, he was feeling very uncomfortable after the 4th hour of racing, which was a burden-but his aim was to finish it safe, get back to the hotel ASAP to put some Ice on the shoulder & rest.
mission accomplish & tomorrow is the real challenge

he did indeed. I think he is more concerned about the chance that his shoulder will pop out again. The pain he said he can handle. I think that's why TS are very cautious about the extent of the injury. If it pops again for the 3rd time, that means some ligament might be torn or something. Dunno.. i'm not a doctor

 

[Jack_89]

Uhm , maybe i wrong...but there's something that doesn't convince me , looking the race and his first words.after the finishing line....pre-tactical ?!