Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Congratulations Alberto! It could have been a horrible day today but he got lucky. He's now one step closer to the greatest of all time:

1. Merckx - 11 Grand Tours
2. Hinault - 10
3. Contador - 9
4. Anquetil - 8
5. Armstrong - 7
5. Coppi - 7
5. Indurain - 7

Wrong! You people even don't believe yourself. Doping wins don't count, keep dreaming.

All of those victories have most likely involved doping. So if you are going to go after Alberto you need to be consistent.

Yes but they haven't been annulled yet. Contador was found positive. He won 2 GT's when he should've been banned. It's unfair to all the riders that didn't race when they were suspended that those 2 count. For once, think of other riders but AC. He shouldn't have been racing, therefore they do not count.

I don't think that any of the results those results will ever be annulled (except Armstrong who officially lost all his TDF wins). You would have to rewrite cycling history in order to do that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

First Vuelta-Giro double since Rominger in '93-'94. Joins Rominger, Mercx, Gimondi, and Anquetil as the only to have completed that feat.

Love all these stats

 

[Electress]

Re:

TS as a team will have an easier time at the Tour IMO. They won't have the race favorite and so it won't be their job to control the pack. On the flat stages you'll have Etixx and Giant among others controlling things for the top sprinters in the sport. No doubt Sky will ride on the front during most stages...what else do they do in the Tour? Between Astana, Moviestar, and Sky I think the "controlling" of the peleton will be much easier. Hopefully this will result in AC having at least 2 climbers with him on the final climbs.

I agree this could work to their advantage, and I think AC has more ability than most to play the other teams off against one another. He's shown his superior experience in this Giro.

For all the moaning and sniping there's been surely no one honestly believes that any one but Contador deserves this victory? For his leadership on the road against a whole team pitted against him, his resilience to come back from multiple setbacks, and his general dominance and demeanour over the whole race despite having fewer (team) cards to play. I wonder how many hours he's spent without any team-mates? And how many of those in the mountains.

Contador's sheer will makes him a formidable opponent and though I'm less confident of how he'll be in the Tour after today, I am also certain that his drive alone and desire to win are going to make him seize every opportunity he can find in July.

I'll be interested to see if the Tour can even approach the excitement of this Giro.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Anyone know what he's referring to in that pic? His 3 Vuelta victories? Would be somewhat disrespectful to the tifosi.

Your constant trolling is getting you into the red zone Sam. Give it a break now until July eh.

As I've explained more than once, I'm not trolling. But ok. I'll change the tone of my posts from now on and avoid what seems to be causing all this offense.

Anyone know what he's referring to in that pic? His 3 Vuelta victories? Would be somewhat disrespectful to the tifosi.

Maybe you can explain what he's done wrong in the Giro '11?

Contador may consider himself to have won 2 (soon 3) Giros, but in reality, he has won only one (soon 2) because he got a backdated 2 year ban that rendered his results in 2011 null and void. Results in cycling are determined by official bodies. They are the final arbiters of what the results are, not the fans. The fact that didn't do anything wrong in the Giro 2011 is completely irrelevant.

You may of course employ your own idiosyncratic definition of "having won" to award Contador the 2011 Giro, or even every Giro of the last decade, but the official results are that he's currently in possession of 1.

But that would be idiotic since he didn't win all the Giro's of the last decade. "Official" bodies might be able to rewrite official records but they can't change real history...what actually happened. People who recognize all AC's wins know it's not official. They just understand what actually happened.

 

[Red Rick]

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

 

[SeriousSam]

What is being contested here is precisely what the "real" history is. Of course you would characterise your position as the one that understands what "actually happened". So does the other side.

In addition, the other side will read l'Equipe, the Sun, Die Bild and Gazzetta dello Sport tomorrow, and find story that corroborates their version. You won't.

 

[Andro]

Re:

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

So do you count Rasmussen as the real winner of the 2007 Tour?

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Berto not going to win the Tour this year... that's for sure

What makes you believe that? Not that I think he'll win the Tour, I'm just interested to know more about your opinion.

I just hope he'll be at least in decent / good form, because from there you know he'll be up there with the best and put up a fight during 3 weeks, make long range attacks and pull off tactical moves to potentially take the overall win without necessarily being the strongest.

I'm not asking for him to be in thermonuclear form, but at least I'm hoping not catastrophic form like 13' or 11' (bar alpe d'huez stage) where he doesn't even have the strength to do anything apart from following wheels and eventually getting dropped.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

So do you count Rasmussen as the real winner of the 2007 Tour?

If he had actually finished the Tour in yellow yes.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

So do you count Rasmussen as the real winner of the 2007 Tour?

If he had actually finished the Tour in yellow yes.

this.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

So do you count Rasmussen as the real winner of the 2007 Tour?

Why the *** some people keep bringing the Tour 07' on the table? I didn't know Rasmussen was in Yellow in Paris? Go troll somewhere else, Chicken would be no where without his lucky breakaway.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

So do you count Rasmussen as the real winner of the 2007 Tour?

He should've won that Tour, but he sadly didn't.

Different story to Pantani, who got tricked and to most people (including Gotti) somehow still feels like the legit winner of the 99 Giro.

Anyway, backdated bans are big dull ***. Contador was allowed to race and he won. So he's the winner. Any statistic which says different is a stupid joke. As was Scarponi with his champions behavior.

Edit: lol that break was everything, but not lucky. Ultimately Rasmussen was the best climber in that Tour. Pretty clear.

 

[Andro]

Re: Re:

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

So do you count Rasmussen as the real winner of the 2007 Tour?

If he had actually finished the Tour in yellow yes.

Alright, so it's not winning the Tour on the road and proving yourself the best that matters, it's the parade ride into Paris that decides whether you're the real winner?

 

[Jelantik]

Looks like he was dehydrated today. He can't underestimate the symptom again in the Tour.

"I was dehydrated. It sounds unlikely because it wasn't excessively hot, but this morning when I got up, I was underweight as a result of such a demanding stage yesterday. I didn't give it much thought, and I drank throughout the stage, but perhaps not as much as I should have, and I think it was a question of dehydration, not of hunger or food.

http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/contador_it_was_a_case_of_dehydration/

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Alright people, we don't count paper victories

We count the real ones

9

So do you count Rasmussen as the real winner of the 2007 Tour?

If he had actually finished the Tour in yellow yes.

Alright, so it's not winning the Tour on the road and proving yourself the best that matters, it's the parade ride into Paris that decides whether you're the real winner?

You missed the point. Rasmussen missed more than just the Champs Elysees...he missed multiple days of racing. He didn't finish the Tour. You only win a gt by finishing it in 1st place; that's what AC did.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

What is being contested here is precisely what the "real" history is. Of course you would characterise your position as the one that understands what "actually happened". So does the other side.

In addition, the other side will read l'Equipe, the Sun, Die Bild and Gazzetta dello Sport tomorrow, and find story that corroborates their version. You won't.

Yeah, and then these people on the other side will proceed to search for archieves and footage of Scarponi's flying Giro 11' only to find that it doesn't corroborate with their version

 

[Jancouver]

Kudos to Alberto. Considering he was mostly riding alone against a very strong Astana team with basically no support, his win is even more spectacular.

As per the double, it will be hard, but if he can get any support (not sure from who) there is a chance ...

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

What is being contested here is precisely what the "real" history is. Of course you would characterise your position as the one that understands what "actually happened". So does the other side.

In addition, the other side will read l'Equipe, the Sun, Die Bild and Gazzetta dello Sport tomorrow, and find story that corroborates their version. You won't.

Yeah, and then these people on the other side will proceed to search for archieves and footage of Scarponi's flying Giro 11' only to find that it doesn't corroborate with their version

I love the modern world of HD TV! You don't have to take some journalist word for it. You can find the truth all on your own!

 

[Electress]

Oh the hilarity of the BBC Sport

Sunday's final stage from Turin to Milan is a flat 185km race that is expected to end in a bunch sprint which Contador - to avoid any crashes - will not contest as he still needs to finish the race.

Ah, but on any normal day, he'd be up there with Cav. and Kittel, eh? Gees.

 

[Andro]

Re: Re:

You missed the point. Rasmussen missed more than just the Champs Elysees...he missed multiple days of racing. He didn't finish the Tour. You only win a gt by finishing it in 1st place; that's what AC did.

When he got pulled out there were no mountian stages left. There was only a time trial and a lead that he was never gonna lose. He was only formalities away from winning.

Anyway, I do think Alberto is the only real winner of the 2011 Giro and 2010 Tour, but then I also think it's a bit hypocritical to say he was the only real winner of the 2007 Tour. The situations aren't really that different. Contador wasn't the best in 2007 and had lost the Tour when his opponent got pulled out of the race.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

You missed the point. Rasmussen missed more than just the Champs Elysees...he missed multiple days of racing. He didn't finish the Tour. You only win a gt by finishing it in 1st place; that's what AC did.

When he got pulled out there were no mountian stages left. There was only a time trial and a lead that he was never gonna lose. He was only formalities away from winning.

Anyway, I do think Alberto is the only real winner of the 2011 Giro and 2010 Tour, but then I also think it's a bit hypocritical to say he was the only real winner of the 2007 Tour. The situations aren't really that different. Contador wasn't the best in 2007 and had lost the Tour when his opponent got pulled out of the race.

Rasmussen would have never been in Yellow if he had been considered a favourite from the start. Things just boded well for him and then took advantage of his leadership thanks to his breakaway to only wait for AC to tire himself up on Aubisque and counter him.

All the other mountains stages, they were either on par, or AC was better. On peyresourde and Galibier, AC was stronger, on Plateau de Beille, they were on par.

Now this situation is absolutely not comparable to Giro 11' and Tour 10' since Rasmu didn't reach Paris in Yellow and there were still a few stages to go.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

You missed the point. Rasmussen missed more than just the Champs Elysees...he missed multiple days of racing. He didn't finish the Tour. You only win a gt by finishing it in 1st place; that's what AC did.

When he got pulled out there were no mountian stages left. There was only a time trial and a lead that he was never gonna lose. He was only formalities away from winning.

Anyway, I do think Alberto is the only real winner of the 2011 Giro and 2010 Tour, but then I also think it's a bit hypocritical to say he was the only real winner of the 2007 Tour. The situations aren't really that different. Contador wasn't the best in 2007 and had lost the Tour when his opponent got pulled out of the race.

I see it a little differently. I don't think you have to "be the best" to be considered a winner of a certain gt. I think you have to finish the gt. If Rasmussen had finished, of course he would have been the winner regardless of what officials found out later. But he didn't finish hence it can only be said that AC is the winner. In the same way I only attribute the 2010 Tour and 2011 Giro to AC because he finished those races in 1st place.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

You missed the point. Rasmussen missed more than just the Champs Elysees...he missed multiple days of racing. He didn't finish the Tour. You only win a gt by finishing it in 1st place; that's what AC did.

When he got pulled out there were no mountian stages left. There was only a time trial and a lead that he was never gonna lose. He was only formalities away from winning.

Anyway, I do think Alberto is the only real winner of the 2011 Giro and 2010 Tour, but then I also think it's a bit hypocritical to say he was the only real winner of the 2007 Tour. The situations aren't really that different. Contador wasn't the best in 2007 and had lost the Tour when his opponent got pulled out of the race.

Contador always mentions the Giro 2008 as his first big victory, if my memory is correct.

So he is able to classify 2007 with enough realism.

 

[ggusta]

here ya go, Flo

 

[Andro]

Re: Re:

I see it a little differently. I don't think you have to "be the best" to be considered a winner of a certain gt. I think you have to finish the gt. If Rasmussen had finished, of course he would have been the winner regardless of what officials found out later. But he didn't finish hence it can only be said that AC is the winner. In the same way I only attribute the 2010 Tour and 2011 Giro to AC because he finished those races in 1st place.

So in other words:

Alright, so it's not winning the Tour on the road and proving yourself the best that matters, it's the parade ride into Paris that decides whether you're the real winner?