Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[jmdirt]

I think AC's form is going to get better. He rested after the GdI, trained easy, and did a small camp. The first week of the TdF was still part of his build phase. We'l see...

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

lol, take a deep breath and count to 10 flo. End of the day its just a sport. As I told you once before in the long run you'll be better off experiencing heartbreak by watching sport, since it prepares you for the traumas that real life can bring, without offering any real consequences. You can take it out on me, and other posters, if you want, but what does it really get you? And anyway, what do you think was wrong with my post? I don't really see how my opinion on Contador's failure thus far and chances to take time, warrant Wiggins like insults.

Why the f would I be experiencing heartbreak? That's just nonsense. You're just making me depressed with your pessimistic bullcrap and I can't stand that.

Flo, all I said was what Ive always said. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. One can't expect Contador to have a guaranteed minute on the downhill because that's not how cycling works. ANd Froome does look like he will have the advantage, which is what every single person who saw the first week thinks.

Don't get where the accusation of bitterness comes from. What the hell is bitter about saying that.

The other post I made was criticising the team for not doing their job because if you go for a Giro Tour double you need to be squeezing every second out of every opportunity. This is common sense really, and I think everyone has said it at some point.

Don't see what you find so upsetting.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Is that really a robust association? Contador doing well when post stage sandbagging and not doing well when talking about good sensations? Seems spurious.

Contador is always a "liar" when he speaking of shapes , attack plans ecc.
Do you discover today?
Don't you remember when he talking of winning stages in Vuelta 2014 ? This is only an example

His statements aren't useful for predicting how he'll fare against his competitors. Seems a clear case of tea leaf reading.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Flo, all I said was what Ive always said. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. One can't expect Contador to have a guaranteed minute on the downhill because that's not how cycling works. ANd Froome does look like he will have the advantage, which is what every single person who saw the first week thinks.

Don't get where the accusation of bitterness comes from. What the hell is bitter about saying that.

The other post I made was criticising the team for not doing their job because if you go for a Giro Tour double you need to be squeezing every second out of every opportunity. This is common sense really, and I think everyone has said it at some point.

Don't see what you find so upsetting.

Do you think the team decided not to take any time on Froome?

 

[TI-Raleigh]

I find it interesting that many profess faith in Contador's non-physical attributes, i.e. his 'smarts' and 'toughness' and 'experience'. Obviously, these are all beneficial for Contador to have and help him to be the great rider he is. Nevertheless, it seems that these attributes would have the greatest value during the classics-style first week stages-- cobbles, wind, etc. Now, as the race reaches the mountains, and with several hard summit finishes, the most beneficial thing for a rider to have is the ability to put out consistent high wattage and fierce accelerations. Does Contador have that? Time will tell, but my gut feeling is no, he does not.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

If Froome goes full alien, and Alberto feels a little off, then he needs to hang onto Quintana's wheel for as long as possible

 

[Carols]

The 'spark' comment, that he doesn't have and others do doesn't bode well. We can all see that it is a valid assessment. He seems to be counting on being consistent, always a necessity during a GT, and others not having that consistency. Well If Froome wasn't showing this exceptional form that might work, but he is. Actually Froome is reminding me of Bjarne in 1996 riding around sizing up the others and then smashing it. Oh I'll talk on the radio here in the last km after dragging my team for 1km and Nico needs help so I'll just go see him, etc. However we have seen Froome going all out early and paying the price later so he may come back to earth and should Alberto find the 'spark' it's an entirely new ballgame. There is still two weeks so I'm trying to remain optimistic!!

 

[Ludwig's Olaf]

Pleased with Tinkoff's performance today, I thought Basso would be dropped at the start ramp and Contador five minutes down because the press predicted huuuuuge differences. Nibali should be in the lead by now, followed by AC; Froome and Quintana far distanced, but there's little between them after nine stages because little happened. I know the media talk of a 'vigorous opening round' and that 'this year’s Tour de France has been extremely hard', and every stage was 'highly dramatic', but I watched them and it was boring. Training runs with a small hill at the end on two occasions. I'm afraid it won't get better next week, Sky processions up and down the gentle climbs, and the one man who could spoil the travesty is not at his best because he overdid it.

 

[Squirbos_19]

I won't mind if Contador loses a bit of time to Froome, but he still has to be up there on Tuesday. If he really can peak in weeks 2-3 and I, like many others think Froome will fade as the race goes on then he can win the Tour. His team is looking super strong too, they may not do much on stage 10 with only 1 climb but I expect Tinkoff to unleash on the multi-mountain stages.

 

[leon993]

http://www.marca.com/2015/07/12/ciclismo/tour_francia/1436718672.html

Berto comments (hope my translation is correct):

- I believe everyone will have a bad day this Tour, the most consistent rider will win
- I am more unsure about my form than at the Giro, one thing I have noticed is that I miss the "spark" that others do have, I hope this will not have any effect in the long run
- [about Tuesday's stage] It is a hard climb, anything can happen, we will see how I feel after the rest day, if I feel good I will try to attack, because I believe I must take every opportunity
- Tejay is also a big rival not just N Q F

What have we seen so far? Contador got cooked on the Belgian Mur, but looked fine on the French Mur bridging from behind. It certainly looks like he is getting in shape.
Froome was fine (apart from style ) in the Belgian Mur. On French Mur he rode very hard but stopped. You could ask, why did Froome stop - was he cooked going into red? It seems like it anyhow, cause Willermoz and Martin rode away easily without any response from Froome. You could argue that this was because of tactics - his main rivals was with him. I don't think so, if he had the strenght to follow them, he would have done it.

Everything depends on how Tuesdays stage fall out. Froome has now said that he will ride defensively. Let me see that before I believe it. We also will see Tuesday which team is the best in the mountains. A lot depends on how late Froome get's isolated. Once isolated he will probably chase everything that moves. This is where he could be very vulnerable. I think that Contador will lose no time on Tuesday, but maybe that is wishful thinking

 

[jilbiker]

http://www.marca.com/2015/07/12/ciclismo/tour_francia/1436718672.html

Berto comments (hope my translation is correct):

- I believe everyone will have a bad day this Tour, the most consistent rider will win
- I am more unsure about my form than at the Giro, one thing I have noticed is that I miss the "spark" that others do have, I hope this will not have any effect in the long run
- [about Tuesday's stage] It is a hard climb, anything can happen, we will see how I feel after the rest day, if I feel good I will try to attack, because I believe I must take every opportunity
- Tejay is also a big rival not just N Q F

What have we seen so far? Contador got cooked on the Belgian Mur, but looked fine on the French Mur bridging from behind. It certainly looks like he is getting in shape.
Froome was fine (apart from style ) in the Belgian Mur. On French Mur he rode very hard but stopped. You could ask, why did Froome stop - was he cooked going into red? It seems like it anyhow, cause Willermoz and Martin rode away easily without any response from Froome. You could argue that this was because of tactics - his main rivals was with him. I don't think so, if he had the strenght to follow them, he would have done it.

Everything depends on how Tuesdays stage fall out. Froome has now said that he will ride defensively. Let me see that before I believe it. We also will see Tuesday which team is the best in the mountains. A lot depends on how late Froome get's isolated. Once isolated he will probably chase everything that moves. This is where he could be very vulnerable. I think that Contador will lose no time on Tuesday, but maybe that is wishful thinking

Defensive riding in not in the books of sky or Froome. He did not go for it (notice I did not say chase) on the french Mur because he couldn't. He really does not know how to ride defensively, he feels he will be defeated if he does that, so he just goes for it, best defense is offense. In soccer one strategy is if I score more goals than you, I win the game.

His strategy for tuesday to thursday MTFs is win all of them. If anyone goes and Froome does not respond it is most like because its not yet time according to his plan to go. He just goes with his own plan. Interesting strategy. I really can't believe that AC and go cannot or have not figured a way around of this one template plan.

 

[jilbiker]

Re:

I find it interesting that many profess faith in Contador's non-physical attributes, i.e. his 'smarts' and 'toughness' and 'experience'. Obviously, these are all beneficial for Contador to have and help him to be the great rider he is. Nevertheless, it seems that these attributes would have the greatest value during the classics-style first week stages-- cobbles, wind, etc. Now, as the race reaches the mountains, and with several hard summit finishes, the most beneficial thing for a rider to have is the ability to put out consistent high wattage and fierce accelerations. Does Contador have that? Time will tell, but my gut feeling is no, he does not.

Vuelta 2012, they were in mountains, AC defeated Purito not on wattage but on smarts. There is a reason not underestimate the value of smarts. Wattage is way overrated.

 

[SeriousSam]

Is it? The strongest rider almost always wins the Grand Tour. Especially the Tour. On the rare occasions he doesn't, the weaker rider is only marginally weaker.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Is it? The strongest rider almost always wins the Grand Tour. Especially the Tour. On the rare occasions he doesn't, the weaker rider is only marginally weaker.

Wow really? That's some mindblowing stuff man

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Is that really a robust association? Contador doing well when post stage sandbagging and not doing well when talking about good sensations? Seems spurious.

Contador is always a "liar" when he speaking of shapes , attack plans ecc.
Do you discover today?
Don't you remember when he talking of winning stages in Vuelta 2014 ? This is only an example

His statements aren't useful for predicting how he'll fare against his competitors. Seems a clear case of tea leaf reading.

Look who's talking: the bookie.

Surely it seems pretty unwise, for a intelligent rider like Contador, to broadcast the world that you lack "spark" doesnt it?

 

[SeriousSam]

So you're saying if I'm wrong and his statements are actually useful for predicting his form, making them would be unwise? Why yes.

 

[Taxus4a]

http://www.marca.com/2015/07/12/ciclismo/tour_francia/1436718672.html

Berto comments (hope my translation is correct):

- I believe everyone will have a bad day this Tour, the most consistent rider will win
- I am more unsure about my form than at the Giro, one thing I have noticed is that I miss the "spark" that others do have, I hope this will not have any effect in the long run
- [about Tuesday's stage] It is a hard climb, anything can happen, we will see how I feel after the rest day, if I feel good I will try to attack, because I believe I must take every opportunity
- Tejay is also a big rival not just N Q F

What have we seen so far? Contador got cooked on the Belgian Mur, but looked fine on the French Mur bridging from behind. It certainly looks like he is getting in shape.
Froome was fine (apart from style ) in the Belgian Mur. On French Mur he rode very hard but stopped. You could ask, why did Froome stop - was he cooked going into red? It seems like it anyhow, cause Willermoz and Martin rode away easily without any response from Froome. You could argue that this was because of tactics - his main rivals was with him. I don't think so, if he had the strenght to follow them, he would have done it.

Everything depends on how Tuesdays stage fall out. Froome has now said that he will ride defensively. Let me see that before I believe it. We also will see Tuesday which team is the best in the mountains. A lot depends on how late Froome get's isolated. Once isolated he will probably chase everything that moves. This is where he could be very vulnerable. I think that Contador will lose no time on Tuesday, but maybe that is wishful thinking

Your tranlation is Ok, Florecilla.

I dont want to disturb anybody, I am just going to give my point of view from your comments.

You say Contador was better in Bretagne than in Huy.,. I think he was the same or similar: He was 12 in Huy, and 14 in Bretagne, so acording to that even better in Huy.

The difference, in Huy losed an important time with Froome and in Bretagne no, that way you say that. Why?? Huy and Bretagne are similar in desnivel but Huy is stepest in one part and that part is close to the end. That way is easier to break the race and difficult to follow wheels. In Huy he tried to follow Froome (did he think he had that spark?) so he explode a little, but I saw the same Contador that in Bretagne, a Contador that could be at the wheel of Froome and other riders, and he almost win in Bretagne some years later, so the climb wanst bad for him...

Contador had an impresive team to an TTT, not as Urán without Tony Martin, but they are close in GC, If Rigo is close to Contador or even better in the mountains, I think it is no so difficult to be with the best after to be at maximum and giving maximun in Il Giro. Caruso did a very good TTT for BMC as well, better than strong riders that didnt ride il Giro.

Contador was one more in his team today, Froome was better than his team mates...That was the difference, he has not a weaker team...they are all very strong riders, in SKy as well.

if he think he is not as strong than in the Giro, where he won just for 2 minutes to a rider as Aru, giving always the maxiumum, even attacking for far with a rival crash (it is ok), a rider that showed he is not very strong nor in ITT nor in the mountains in 3 weaks, so he has 2 bad days, and he wanst never the stronger of the team in the mountains, he will have serious problems here...

I think he is at the same level and similar to la Vuelta, his level.

In la Vuelta he managed to win with this level, despite similar rivals (but in a weaker shape, and Quintana crashed) in il Giro as well, but now this is le Tour, with the best at his best level. he has his options, but he is not the stronger and that is not a question of il Giro , IMO, although it has a big merit.

I hope you enjoy with him next days.
We all love cycling.
Cheers.

 

[Angliru]

lol at posters who said the mountains are yet to come....as it is contador will never gain time on froome..froome will beat contadors candy ass everytime when they are both healthy.

Yep that's what we saw at the Vuelta 2014 .

Plus this year, Contador is at a disadvantage.

Considering Contador targetted that race once he crashed out compared to Froome who merely used it to get some racing in his legs...

Yep, that's a valid excuse for losing. What b.s..

 

[TI-Raleigh]

Re: Re:

I find it interesting that many profess faith in Contador's non-physical attributes, i.e. his 'smarts' and 'toughness' and 'experience'. Obviously, these are all beneficial for Contador to have and help him to be the great rider he is. Nevertheless, it seems that these attributes would have the greatest value during the classics-style first week stages-- cobbles, wind, etc. Now, as the race reaches the mountains, and with several hard summit finishes, the most beneficial thing for a rider to have is the ability to put out consistent high wattage and fierce accelerations. Does Contador have that? Time will tell, but my gut feeling is no, he does not.

Vuelta 2012, they were in mountains, AC defeated Purito not on wattage but on smarts. There is a reason not underestimate the value of smarts. Wattage is way overrated.

Wattage isn't overrated, it is a prerequisite. If you do not have a high W/Kg at threshold, you stand zero chance of winning. Smarts help, but the number one thing to have is wattage. You can have all the heart and smarts in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't have the legs.

 

[Taxus4a]

What we show at the Vuelta was that Contador got a very good preparation as he rode 8 days in le Tour, rest 2 weeks and train for one month previous la Vuelta.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that he lied about his participation and his injuries and his shape, with the help of the media.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that Froome said he was there just thinking in this Tour, becouse he needed a complete GT in his legs in 2015.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that Froome did a mistake in the ITT and he started too strong, exploded, losed time an later he did better in the last Km that Contador. Uran was better than Contador and clearly better than Froome (in time) so it was not a super performance from Contador, but not the normal one by Froome.

Whay we show in la Vuelta is that he needed to attack and put time, and Contador was in a similar strengh, and he has a better aceleration, so difficult to drop Contador.

What we saw is that, that way Froome dopred Contador just in the steppest climbs, as Camperona, where to follow wheels is no so important.

IMO SKY didnt ride well the 2 harder mountains stages. When you are similarto Contador in strenth becouse he had a better preparation you cant just put an strong pace, even in a hard climb as Ancares, Contador need to have a previous big effort, not just final climb.

What we saw is that Contador was in aa great shape, but Valverde came from le Tour, to win San Sebastian, and he was close even when in the first days he was just working for Quintana and doing stupid attacks like in Cordoba and didnt take any bonus...

It has his merit to start training in Lugano and with that determination to go to the Vuelta to win after to have a fissure in his bone, and he was at a hiogh level, he won, congrats, but if you want to believe all that stuff that Froome prepare la Vuelta at the same level that contador did, you can do it, but consider that there is another point of view of all that story...

The story is not that Contador did the amazing thing to win la Vuelta to froome after to have an important injury just training hard a week... and for that he believe he can get the double..and he failed is becouse it very difficult.

I respect you think like that, but I like this sport, and I am going to answer to that world of lies that Contador create about his acts. He is like a wizard that know how to put people at his side...(with all the respect is what I think, and well based)

If you are the best, go to the Tour and show you are the best. if he do, he will have my congrats and all my consideration. To be close to Froome after to win il Giro could even be enough for me. But close is not 5 minutes at the end of the Tour, close is maybe not a question of time, but of performance. He wanst close to Froome (or that is not close for me) in Huy, but the Tour is long.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I find it interesting that many profess faith in Contador's non-physical attributes, i.e. his 'smarts' and 'toughness' and 'experience'. Obviously, these are all beneficial for Contador to have and help him to be the great rider he is. Nevertheless, it seems that these attributes would have the greatest value during the classics-style first week stages-- cobbles, wind, etc. Now, as the race reaches the mountains, and with several hard summit finishes, the most beneficial thing for a rider to have is the ability to put out consistent high wattage and fierce accelerations. Does Contador have that? Time will tell, but my gut feeling is no, he does not.

Vuelta 2012, they were in mountains, AC defeated Purito not on wattage but on smarts. There is a reason not underestimate the value of smarts. Wattage is way overrated.

Wattage isn't overrated, it is a prerequisite. If you do not have a high W/Kg at threshold, you stand zero chance of winning. Smarts help, but the number one thing to have is wattage. You can have all the heart and smarts in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't have the legs.

It is important, but cycling is not just wattage, luckily, it is a mixture of power, mind and determination. You must know how to adapt to knew circunstances, to know you rivals, and to know the route, and know where to take risk.

I think that Contador and Nibali are better in that to Froome, but, Froome was a in a difficult situation in Dauohine, and he kewn how to handle the stage of Nibali..and later to win the race, not just wattage, so I have my doubs, he sometimes is just an uncontrolled and nosense strengh, but sometimes he looks like thinking globaly.

 

[cantpedal]

Taxus4a - A couple of the most well reasoned arguments to be seen in the last few days. Put forth in a respectful manner that I wish we had more of here. I don't agree with all of it but most. Definitely made me look at things from a different angle.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

What we show at the Vuelta was that Contador got a very good preparation as he rode 8 days in le Tour, rest 2 weeks and train for one month previous la Vuelta.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that he lied about his participation and his injuries and his shape, with the help of the media.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that Froome said he was there just thinking in this Tour, becouse he needed a complete GT in his legs in 2015.

He was trying to win last years Vuelta. If he hadn't been trying, he wouldn't have been 2nd.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that Froome did a mistake in the ITT and he started too strong, exploded, losed time an later he did better in the last Km that Contador. Uran was better than Contador and clearly better than Froome (in time) so it was not a super performance from Contador, but not the normal one by Froome.

Knowing how to time your effort in a itt is part of racing. It doesn't change the fact that Contador beat Froome. Just except that. Also losing to Uran isn't something to be ashamed of. His itt was pretty good in 2014.

Whay we show in la Vuelta is that he needed to attack and put time, and Contador was in a similar strengh, and he has a better aceleration, so difficult to drop Contador.

What we saw is that, that way Froome dopred Contador just in the steppest climbs, as Camperona, where to follow wheels is no so important.

IMO SKY didnt ride well the 2 harder mountains stages. When you are similarto Contador in strenth becouse he had a better preparation you cant just put an strong pace, even in a hard climb as Ancares, Contador need to have a previous big effort, not just final climb.

What point are you trying to make here? What we saw is that Contador (for the most part) was stronger than Froome. Froome can be beaten you know.

What we saw is that Contador was in aa great shape, but Valverde came from le Tour, to win San Sebastian, and he was close even when in the first days he was just working for Quintana and doing stupid attacks like in Cordoba and didnt take any bonus...

What are you trying to say here? Do you think Valverde could have beaten AC if he had tried harder?

It has his merit to start training in Lugano and with that determination to go to the Vuelta to win after to have a fissure in his bone, and he was at a hiogh level, he won, congrats, but if you want to believe all that stuff that Froome prepare la Vuelta at the same level that contador did, you can do it, but consider that there is another point of view of all that story...

Do you have some sort of special insight into this "story?" Why don't you share it with links to prove your point....Froome had more time to prepare for the Vuelta. He has no one but himself to blame if he didn't use that time wisely.

The story is not that Contador did the amazing thing to win la Vuelta to froome after to have an important injury just training hard a week... and for that he believe he can get the double..and he failed is becouse it very difficult.

What Contador did was pretty impressive whether you admit it or not. He came back from a pretty bad leg injury to win the Vuelta beating Froome. Sorry, I don't fully understand your wording....are you saying AC failed the double? Has the Tour finished yet?

I respect you think like that, but I like this sport, and I am going to answer to that world of lies that Contador create about his acts. He is like a wizard that know how to put people at his side...(with all the respect is what I think, and well based)

If you are the best, go to the Tour and show you are the best. if he do, he will have my congrats and all my consideration. To be close to Froome after to win il Giro could even be enough for me. But close is not 5 minutes at the end of the Tour, close is maybe not a question of time, but of performance. He wanst close to Froome (or that is not close for me) in Huy, but the Tour is long.

Yes he has duped all these people into liking him with his magic wand. Get real dude. Do you really believe that Froome is a more honest chap?

AC has done the Tour and proved that he is the best. He is at the point in his career where winning just another Tour won't do it for him. His palmares are so impressive (compared to someone like Froome for example) that he wants to go for the Giro-Tour double to motivate himself.

 

[Malmeren]

Anyone know how the decent from Tourmalet is on Wednesday?

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Anyone know how the decent from Tourmalet is on Wednesday?

only a bit technical, you cant make a difference on that imo.