Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Without Astana going full *** in the giro Contador would have easily podium'd the tour, he wouldn't have won it though, no way.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with Miburo, at least partially. An uncommon occurrence

I think thats unfair to Valverde. Yes, the chances would have increased, but lets not forget he also lost 2 minutes on Pra Loup after a mechanical or whatever, it would have been hard to get the podium spot regardless.

As much as I love Bala he Very Rarely finishes in front of Alberto in a GT.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Without Astana going full *** in the giro Contador would have easily podium'd the tour, he wouldn't have won it though, no way.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with Miburo, at least partially. An uncommon occurrence

I think thats unfair to Valverde. Yes, the chances would have increased, but lets not forget he also lost 2 minutes on Pra Loup after a mechanical or whatever, it would have been hard to get the podium spot regardless.

As much as I love Bala he Very Rarely finishes in front of Alberto in a GT.

So Astana not going full *** translates to + 5 minutes on Valverde? I simply don't buy that. Contador wasn't scary by any means last year, he was out climbed time and time again by Landa and was a shell of himself in the Tour - not only because of Astana, but because of the decision to ride the Giro as a whole. And it wasn't only Astana, TInkoff and Contador were also ready to up the pace when they didn't necessarily needed to.

I think its a ridiculous statement that Contador 'easily' would have podium'ed. No way.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Without Astana going full *** in the giro Contador would have easily podium'd the tour, he wouldn't have won it though, no way.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with Miburo, at least partially. An uncommon occurrence

I think thats unfair to Valverde. Yes, the chances would have increased, but lets not forget he also lost 2 minutes on Pra Loup after a mechanical or whatever, it would have been hard to get the podium spot regardless.

As much as I love Bala he Very Rarely finishes in front of Alberto in a GT.

So Astana not going full *** translates to + 5 minutes on Valverde? I simply don't buy that. Contador wasn't scary by any means last year, he was out climbed time and time again by Landa and was a shell of himself in the Tour - not only because of Astana, but because of the decision to ride the Giro as a whole. And it wasn't only Astana, TInkoff and Contador were also ready to up the pace when they didn't necessarily needed to.

I think its a ridiculous statement that Contador 'easily' would have podium'ed. No way.

Well I'm certainly not going to argue with you. Opinions differ, it is okay .

 

[Valv.Piti]

Some Contador-fans are incredible delusional..... at least just say there are better chances for him podiuming instead of making it sound like a cakewalk for King Conta to podium. Meh.

 

[Carols]

Re:

Some Contador-fans are incredible delusional.....

If you mean me you're barking up the wrong tree. I do not engage in forum squabbles, its just that simple.

Also I am one of Bala's biggest fans on this forum, so don't dish your allies .

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Some Contador-fans are incredible delusional..... at least just say there are better chances for him podiuming instead of making it sound like a cakewalk for King Conta to podium. Meh.

Don't take it personally and by the way Miburo has never heard of subtlety.
I also think Contador would have been on the podium but we will never know.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Some Contador-fans are incredible delusional.....

If you mean me you're barking up the wrong tree. I do not engage in forum squabbles, its just that simple.

Also I am one of Bala's biggest fans on this forum, so don't dish your allies .

I know you like Bala, had it been Nibali on the podium instead of Valverde my argument had been the same. Contador was nothing to be afraid compared to the year prior. Yes, had he not ridden the Giro, he would most probably had podiumed, but he did and payed for it. The argument basically becomes how many minutes in the Tour Astana's rampage in the Giro was worth. 5 minutes? Waaaaay too over the top.

 

[LaFlorecita]

If he had had an easy Giro, he would have been in better shape, he would not have lost as much time uphill, he would not have wasted energy with futile attacks, he might have been more focused which would have kept him upright and if he had been closer to Froome/the podium he may have fought harder to keep the time gaps as small as possible. It all adds up.

 

[Ataraxus]

Yeah... Had Tejay not gotten ill.....

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Yeah... Had Tejay not gotten ill.....

It's all hypothetical duh. If Contador had skipped the Giro and had a proper build up...

 

[dacooley]

someone said that would've been a real shame getting beaten by valverde or van garderen. well, that was fun...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

If he had had an easy Giro, he would have been in better shape, he would not have lost as much time uphill, he would not have wasted energy with futile attacks, he might have been more focused which would have kept him upright and if he had been closer to Froome/the podium he may have fought harder to keep the time gaps as small as possible. It all adds up.

It does, but does that equate easily podium? I have always been recognising it would be a possibility (albeit slight), the problem for me is the way its framed. Like, Contador just woulda snapped his finger and he woulda been on the final step in Paris.

We will never know for sure. What we know, on the other hand, is that Valverde was in his best ever mountain shape (atleast in the Tour, I don't count 2005) and that Contador a) overall didn't was a force in 2015 and b) had ridden a Giro prior to the Tour. I don't care how hard it was ridden, no matter what it reduces the chances drastically of doing well in France.

 

[Carols]

Re:

If he had had an easy Giro, he would have been in better shape, he would not have lost as much time uphill, he would not have wasted energy with futile attacks, he might have been more focused which would have kept him upright and if he had been closer to Froome/the podium he may have fought harder to keep the time gaps as small as possible. It all adds up.

Let's not forget the dislocated shoulder, before that he looked Super. All in all an extremely rigorous Giro which totally sapped him despite his brilliance in the TT and on the Mortirola. He was wasted by the end and obviously hadn't come close to being recovered by the Tour.

He would have raced the entire race differently had he not been on empty from the start.

I Love Bala but in what other GT has he finished in front of Alberto? This was the only time it has ever happened; when Contador was a shell of himself. They just aren't in the same class when it comes to GTs. Just as Contador isn't anywhere near the class of Bala as a classics rider. They both excel in the sport but in different ways.

No we'll never know if Bertie would have podiumed but based on their head to head history in GTs if the Giro had been an easier race it is much more likely that Contador would have podiumed then Bala.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

If he had had an easy Giro, he would have been in better shape, he would not have lost as much time uphill, he would not have wasted energy with futile attacks, he might have been more focused which would have kept him upright and if he had been closer to Froome/the podium he may have fought harder to keep the time gaps as small as possible. It all adds up.

It does, but does that equate easily podium? I have always been recognising it would be a possibility (albeit slight), the problem for me is the way its framed. Like, Contador just woulda snapped his finger and he woulda been on the final step in Paris.

We will never know for sure. What we know, on the other hand, is that Valverde was in his best ever mountain shape (atleast in the Tour, I don't count 2005) and that Contador a) overall didn't was a force in 2015 and b) had ridden a Giro prior to the Tour. I don't care how hard it was ridden, no matter what it reduces the chances drastically of doing well in France.

I take back the 'ease' that was part of my post. So I guess I can't even 'partially' agree with Miburo even when I try.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Without Astana going full *** in the giro Contador would have easily podium'd the tour, he wouldn't have won it though, no way.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with Miburo, at least partially. An uncommon occurrence

EDIT: Upon further discussion and reflection I must mitigate my assessment. It might not have been an 'easy' podium.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

The best Contador can definitely match Froome, i don't think he can create as big gaps as Froome going full ***.

But he can hold on and in the last week of a GT, it's been shown Froome drops in shape. The tour of last year has proven that theory.

lets keep repeating this as if its true. in about half of his GTs (since becoming a contender) froome has weakened in the last week, but still probably been top 3. in the other half he has been very strong.

It's absolutely true.

The vuelta of 2014 can't be uses as a reference since he was still getting better and better, just came from an injury. In the tour he'll be 100% directly, like always

It happened in tour 2013 and 2015 where he was the leader and crushed the field in the beginning.

In the tour of 2012, it didn't happen. True and why not? Cause he didn't have to do anything the first weeks, he was containing himself for wiggins.

So yea it always happen when Froome is in that position.

Look it up before commenting, makes you look like a tool

forget about the vuelta 2011, where he was also very strong? so basically slightly weaker in final week in tour 13 and 15, strong in final week vuelta 11 and tour 12, and getting stronger in final week of vuelta 14, getting weaker in final week of vuelta 12 (after the tour). no evidence either way that froome definitively is strong or weak in final week of grand tours. i know that quintana is the only person who has ever been stronger than froome in the final week of a grand tour (well Jrod was as well but was far enough behind that who knows if froome could have chased him down if he had to). contador 14 doesn't count as he could just take the free ride until the last km or so.
why so personal, why so pathetic?

p.s. i don't even particular like froome.

 

[Jakub]

What a discussion

the last year's TdF was tragic, Bertie was too week and Piti and Quintana should be considered total losers, I hope Piti is not proud he finally podiumed in Tour, because they totally ***-up the Tour. Maybe they should play chess as a part of preparation, but I am afraid they would be hopeless anyway, who once play a coward game will always play a coward game. My God, whe I rememeber that they chased down Bertie and Roman in TdF '13 to secure Quitana's podium spot....

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Without Astana going full *** in the giro Contador would have easily podium'd the tour, he wouldn't have won it though, no way.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with Miburo, at least partially. An uncommon occurrence

EDIT: Upon further discussion and reflection I must mitigate my assessment. It might not have been an 'easy' podium.

You said partially which was clearly a reference to the "easily" part if you ask me. As that was the usual not so subtle part of Miburo. Unless you referred to the "he wouldn't have won it" part, which would suggest you think he would've won. I doubt you referred to that though

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Without Astana going full *** in the giro Contador would have easily podium'd the tour, he wouldn't have won it though, no way.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with Miburo, at least partially. An uncommon occurrence

EDIT: Upon further discussion and reflection I must mitigate my assessment. It might not have been an 'easy' podium.

You said partially which was clearly a reference to the "easily" part if you ask me. As that was the usual not so subtle part of Miburo. Unless you referred to the "he wouldn't have won it" part, which would suggest you think he would've won. I doubt you referred to that though

It was originally all meant as a joke for me to 'agree' with Miburo [it never happens] but somehow it got totally out of hand as it was taken seriously, so I had to actually consider what I thought might have happened.

In for a penny in for a pound. Since I'm accused of being delusional I might as well go all the way and say I disagree with the second part and think with an Easy Giro Alberto might have Won the Tour and done the double!

 

[rhubroma]

Alberto made the mistake of coming into the Giro under form, thinking he would have the margin to win it anyway and then peak for the Tour.

All that happened, though, was that such a hard Giro taxed him too excessively and he was never able to recover for the Tour.

IMO the Giro -Tour doubble is still possible, extremely risky and difficult, but possible. But you have to treat the Giro as if it were the only objective and come in top shape, to not overly-burn the system to win it, to then rest between and start the Tour a notch off, but race back into top shape by the first MTF.

It's what the bigs who won both in the same year did before. People could thus be in for a surprise with Nibali, if he wins the Giro and then starts the Tour.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Alberto made the mistake of coming into the Giro under form, thinking he would have the margin to win it anyway and then peak for the Tour.

All that happened, though, was that such a hard Giro taxed him too excessively and he was never able to recover for the Tour.

IMO the Giro -Tour doubble is still possible, extremely risky and difficult, but possible. But you have to treat the Giro as if it were the only objective and come in top shape, to not overly-burn the system to win it, to then rest between and start the Tour a notch off, but race back into top shape by the first MTF.

It's what the bigs who won both in the same year did before. People could thus be in for a surprise with Nibali, if he wins the Giro and then starts the Tour.

I doubt it, but I'd love it if Nibali was able to smash the Tour after winning the Giro. Ofcourse preferably 2nd behind Contador because I really hope Contador can take the TdF home once more.
Allthough a double by Nibbs would be epic as well

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I think the only one capable of doing the double is Froome.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

I think the only one capable of doing the double is Froome.

Barf, barf. Nada, chap. Sky, like US Postal, is programed for one race. The Giro with a great Contador is probably the only one who could do it, even with Froome at the Giro, which isn't likely for the first observation. An excellent AC though would crush it, like he did at the 2014 Vuelta, the challenge is to keep it rolling through the Tour. Challenging, yes, but impossible, no. It all depends on how one wins and digests the Giro.

I'm not saying Nibali could achieve it, but I'm not ruling it out entirely either. He's willing enough to take risks to put even Froome and Contador in difficulty, as he has previously demonstrated. And if he had killer form after the Giro...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Froome wouldn't even win the Giro IMO.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Froome wouldn't even win the Giro IMO.

Well he has to try to be able to win. And this is where he is to be less admired than those that have, and I'm not even just referring to Contador last year. The Cobra also comes to mind and, hopefully, Nibali now.

I sincerly hope Nibali rides the Tour and does well. I also think Contador without his career problems, would have had one double, perhaps two. At this stage it's more difficult.

If he wins the Tour this year and decides to race in 2017, he should try the double one more time and, in that case, Froome should second the challenge (and Nibali, Quintana and Aru). Of course, this means setting goals that contemplate the Tour and the Giro.