Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Well, I'll be happy to admit that I was wrong if that indeed is the case

You would be the first person ever

Not everyone is like you fleur.

Btw have you finally admitted you were being ridiculous when you said froome should have lost time even though he crashed in the last 3km (tourstage martin crashed out).

Classic fleur

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

so reasonable and impartial bookmakers who take direct financial risks know cycling worse than biased like hell fans?

You can't use bookmakers to say that this or that is a better rider. Comprendes?

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

so reasonable and impartial bookmakers who take direct financial risks know cycling worse than biased like hell fans?

You can't use bookmakers to say that this or that is a better rider. Comprendes? Get the **** over it.

Hell, you cherrish your own point of view as the ultimate truth and at the same time call the guys with the different opinion delusional. There is no point in continuing the debate. Grow up.

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

You know, those who are not dumb, know that Contador can match and beat Froome on equal ground.

At the very least they should not dismiss the possibility so easily.

It's not just who the odds makers think is going to win. they shift the odds depending upon how much money is being wagered. If too much money is bet on rider "A" then they wll change the odds to lower their risk.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

so reasonable and impartial bookmakers who take direct financial risks know cycling worse than biased like hell fans?

You can't use bookmakers to say that this or that is a better rider. Comprendes? Get the **** over it.

Hell, you cherrish your own point of view as the ultimate truth and at the same time call the guys with the different opinion delusional. There is no point in continuing the debate. Grow up.

On the subject of bookmakers odds there really isn't a debate. Bookmakers hedge their risk by altering their odds according to the bets made. Bookmakers do not really intend to predict an outcome - they price their odds to ensure that sufficient action is taking place on both sides of a bet to minimise their risks no matter what happens. IN other words, their odds reflect the collective opinion of the biased like hell fans.

And online odds in particular reflect the opinions of Anglo gamblers. The UK online gambling market is more than that of Italy, France and Spain put together (£2Bn - note Pounds - versus 700 Mn, 750mn and 250 Mn euros).

With regard to the double, I don't disagree with this though

There is no point in continuing the debate.

Frankly, there wasn't much point in starting it, since Froome appears to have little or no intention to race the Giro, let alone try the double.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

so reasonable and impartial bookmakers who take direct financial risks know cycling worse than biased like hell fans?

You can't use bookmakers to say that this or that is a better rider. Comprendes? Get the **** over it.

Hell, you cherrish your own point of view as the ultimate truth and at the same time call the guys with the different opinion delusional. There is no point in continuing the debate. Grow up.

You do realise one of the top 5 favourites for the 2014 tour was Wiggo?

 

[cantpedal]

Their Palmares (CF & AC) since 2010 are very comparable with one or the other being a little better depending on how you view the voided results. Since 2012 It's not close. even more so if you consider Froome was a domestique for Wiggo for most of 2 of those years. UCI voided a season and a half for AC and Sky/Wiggo took 2 GT victories from CF

 

[Carols]

Well Froome was a pro in 2007 why not start there, they were both pros? Oh I see, Froome was crap while AC scored multiple GT and WT race wins. So Froome's record doesn't count for those years. What a crack up!

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

Well Froome was a pro in 2007 why not start there, they were both pros? Oh I see, Froome was crap while AC scored multiple GT and WT race wins. So Froome's record doesn't count for those years. What a crack up!

My point is that AC is clearly not the rider he once was Age, injuries, miles all taking their toll. Right now CF is clearly the better rider. career wise will need to wait until Froome is done. He still has a few "prime" years left.

 

[filipepc]

Hello.
I will give my opinion, based of what a believe and in facts.

I don´t understand those who defend Froome is better GT rider than Contador. In my opinion we should live by facts, and i think there are some diferences...

First They don´t have the some age, and that makes a diference. Second Contador has 9 grand tours ( or 7 ias you consider). Froome as 2!!!
I dont´know if Froome will ever get so many grande tours. Maybe he get more 2 or 3. Contador is by far the most talented GT Winner of his generation. If he hadn´t the stop in his carrer at that age ( those 2 years), he probably would have more than 10 GT wins. And he still can achieve de 10 GT wins. He´s by now the 3 ou 4 best GT WINNER of all time. Is a rider that impressionates me, because he loves to fight.

Now, i´m not an anti-Froome. He is a superb rider. I love watch him ride, is magnificent acelarations, and he is a superb GT RIDER. He is younger than Contador, so that´s a point of advantage for him. He can do more 3 or 4 years at high level, and maybe Contador can´t.

To me, they are funtastic riders, but the facts by now give Contador a BIG advantage over Froome. But this advantage is just about palmares, it´s not about present ok? I prefer Contador, i think we will over his carreer with 10 or 11 GT Wins( to me he as 9). But, if he don´t get any more GT win, he will continue by far getting more GT WINS than Froome when both over their careers.

I love to see both riding and i will wait with so many expectations for the Tour. I hope with no injuries or problems.

Besides all this, if i just consider the present, maybe i would say Froome is the favorite, not Contador, but as i say always in cycling discussions with my friends: " Guys, Contador is Contador... Don´t understimate him..."

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Let's just say he must be confusing Contador with Quintana. That's only explanation I can find to his nonsense right now.

I'll admit that it's probably not right to say that Contador can't keep his form for two weeks, and I think you're right, he is one of the most consistent GT riders.

It's just that his level isn't high enough anymore. Not to win the double, not to beat Froome.

Want to do an avatar bet for the Tour? You're saying Froome will beat AC, I'm saying AC will beat Froome. As long as they both finish the race (no crashes) the bet stands?

Sure. Let's talk terms when the Tour is getting closer

Cool. Bookmarked for later.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

so reasonable and impartial bookmakers who take direct financial risks know cycling worse than biased like hell fans?

You can't use bookmakers to say that this or that is a better rider. Comprendes? Get the **** over it.

Hell, you cherrish your own point of view as the ultimate truth and at the same time call the guys with the different opinion delusional. There is no point in continuing the debate. Grow up.

You do realise one of the top 5 favourites for the 2014 tour was Wiggo?

I wasn't saying that bookmakers' odds is a key point to find out the strongest or froome is stronger than contador by palmares which is laughable. all i was suggesting is there's nothing criminal in giving froome the edge in this year's tour based on the previous 3-4 seasons like bookies do and that's quite shortsighted to consider their opinion 100% wrong. I don't mind bertie winning the 2015 tour and stomping his authority as one of the greats ever one more time for good and all. However, the only tour winner blurry with his expressly disrespectful attitude to the opponents deserves is probably froome as when debates turns into 'contador should win, all the others should suck because for me cycling is the kingdom of the one', it becomes meaningless.

And online odds in particular reflect the opinions of Anglo gamblers. The UK online gambling market is more than that of Italy, France and Spain put together (£2Bn - note Pounds - versus 700 Mn, 750mn and 250 Mn euros).

i concur but do you accept the idea of some anglo gamblers being way more objective than blind pro sky supporters or leaning to the opposite camp like you do?

 

[Red Rick]

Alright ya idjits, here it is. Go nuts

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7738&start=1640

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Hello.
I will give my opinion, based of what a believe and in facts.

I don´t understand those who defend Froome is better GT rider than Contador. In my opinion we should live by facts, and i think there are some diferences...

First They don´t have the some age, and that makes a diference. Second Contador has 9 grand tours ( or 7 ias you consider). Froome as 2!!!
I dont´know if Froome will ever get so many grande tours. Maybe he get more 2 or 3. Contador is by far the most talented GT Winner of his generation. If he hadn´t the stop in his carrer at that age ( those 2 years), he probably would have more than 10 GT wins. And he still can achieve de 10 GT wins. He´s by now the 3 ou 4 best GT WINNER of all time. Is a rider that impressionates me, because he loves to fight.

Now, i´m not an anti-Froome. He is a superb rider. I love watch him ride, is magnificent acelarations, and he is a superb GT RIDER. He is younger than Contador, so that´s a point of advantage for him. He can do more 3 or 4 years at high level, and maybe Contador can´t.

To me, they are funtastic riders, but the facts by now give Contador a BIG advantage over Froome. But this advantage is just about palmares, it´s not about present ok? I prefer Contador, i think we will over his carreer with 10 or 11 GT Wins( to me he as 9). But, if he don´t get any more GT win, he will continue by far getting more GT WINS than Froome when both over their careers.

I love to see both riding and i will wait with so many expectations for the Tour. I hope with no injuries or problems.

Besides all this, if i just consider the present, maybe i would say Froome is the favorite, not Contador, but as i say always in cycling discussions with my friends: " Guys, Contador is Contador... Don´t understimate him..."

Good first post

 

[Red Rick]

Good ol' "You're dumb/stupid/retarted/insane just because you don't agree with me". Do you have more arguments like that?

 

[filipepc]

Re:

i'm going to put a bet on michael schumacher to win the formula 1 WC next year, after all he has more world titles than anyone else so he must still be the favourite right! idiots.

how about this, if you are all so sure that contador hasn't declined so far that froome isn't the clear favourite based on 'recent and relevant' results we have a bet. if both finish without crashing and contador wins i'll leave the board, if froome wins you leave the board. anybody on here arguing that a declining contador, who hasn't won the tour in half a decade is remotely as likely to win the tour as froome is borderline insane.

Oh My god, what a negative opinion for a fourm. I don´t know how the administration let this go...

Talk about a guy that as his live in risk ( shumacher) to try to make a point? Call idiots to people that have another opinion?

That kind of hate makes you bad guy. You should try to easy on...

In my point of view Froome is the favorite, but, Contador is by far better rider and is almist certain that he will end his career with more GT wins than Froome. I don´t know why another opinions borrow you so much, but i know that you shouldn´t behave like this in a forum. You can´t love cycling acting like this. Have a good day.

 

[filipepc]

Re: Re:

Hello.
I will give my opinion, based of what a believe and in facts.

I don´t understand those who defend Froome is better GT rider than Contador. In my opinion we should live by facts, and i think there are some diferences...

First They don´t have the some age, and that makes a diference. Second Contador has 9 grand tours ( or 7 ias you consider). Froome as 2!!!
I dont´know if Froome will ever get so many grande tours. Maybe he get more 2 or 3. Contador is by far the most talented GT Winner of his generation. If he hadn´t the stop in his carrer at that age ( those 2 years), he probably would have more than 10 GT wins. And he still can achieve de 10 GT wins. He´s by now the 3 ou 4 best GT WINNER of all time. Is a rider that impressionates me, because he loves to fight.

Now, i´m not an anti-Froome. He is a superb rider. I love watch him ride, is magnificent acelarations, and he is a superb GT RIDER. He is younger than Contador, so that´s a point of advantage for him. He can do more 3 or 4 years at high level, and maybe Contador can´t.

To me, they are funtastic riders, but the facts by now give Contador a BIG advantage over Froome. But this advantage is just about palmares, it´s not about present ok? I prefer Contador, i think we will over his carreer with 10 or 11 GT Wins( to me he as 9). But, if he don´t get any more GT win, he will continue by far getting more GT WINS than Froome when both over their careers.

I love to see both riding and i will wait with so many expectations for the Tour. I hope with no injuries or problems.

Besides all this, if i just consider the present, maybe i would say Froome is the favorite, not Contador, but as i say always in cycling discussions with my friends: " Guys, Contador is Contador... Don´t understimate him..."

Good first post

Thank´s. It´s just one opinion. I always read this forum, but i have few time, and i´m administrator of other foruns ( in other sports) so i don´t have time to follow all and write. But i love cycling and i follow it, since i was 15 ou 16 years ( i´m 35), and i don´t miss any race. I remeber the first time i saw Pantani and since that day, i start watching cycling everyday.

I hope this discussion about contador and froome don´t blind people. Enjoy, it´s maybe the last time they will ride against each other.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Well Froome was a pro in 2007 why not start there, they were both pros? Oh I see, Froome was crap while AC scored multiple GT and WT race wins. So Froome's record doesn't count for those years. What a crack up!

My point is that AC is clearly not the rider he once was Age, injuries, miles all taking their toll. Right now CF is clearly the better rider. career wise will need to wait until Froome is done. He still has a few "prime" years left.

In your opinion. Other opinions may vary, so it isn't so 'clear'. After all, the count in GTs since Froome's miraculous transformation head to head is 2 - 2 and Alberto has a total of 3 GT wins in that time period while Froome has a total of 2. So it just isn't 'clear' to me yet .

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

i'm going to put a bet on michael schumacher to win the formula 1 WC next year, after all he has more world titles than anyone else so he must still be the favourite right! idiots.

how about this, if you are all so sure that contador hasn't declined so far that froome isn't the clear favourite based on 'recent and relevant' results we have a bet. if both finish without crashing and contador wins i'll leave the board, if froome wins you leave the board. anybody on here arguing that a declining contador, who hasn't won the tour in half a decade is remotely as likely to win the tour as froome is borderline insane.

Oh My god, what a negative opinion for a fourm. I don´t know how the administration let this go...

Talk about a guy that as his live in risk ( shumacher) to try to make a point? Call idiots to people that have another opinion?

That kind of hate makes you bad guy. You should try to easy on...

In my point of view Froome is the favorite, but, Contador is by far better rider and is almist certain that he will end his career with more GT wins than Froome. I don´t know why another opinions borrow you so much, but i know that you shouldn´t behave like this in a forum. You can´t love cycling acting like this. Have a good day.

They have a marvelous feature where you can 'block' posters who choose to post like this. No need for him to leave the forum you can just ignore whatever he says. Also please don't quote the post because then people who already have him Blocked see it .

Nice to meet you and keep posting

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

i'm going to put a bet on michael schumacher to win the formula 1 WC next year, after all he has more world titles than anyone else so he must still be the favourite right! idiots.

how about this, if you are all so sure that contador hasn't declined so far that froome isn't the clear favourite based on 'recent and relevant' results we have a bet. if both finish without crashing and contador wins i'll leave the board, if froome wins you leave the board. anybody on here arguing that a declining contador, who hasn't won the tour in half a decade is remotely as likely to win the tour as froome is borderline insane.

Oh My god, what a negative opinion for a fourm. I don´t know how the administration let this go...

Talk about a guy that as his live in risk ( shumacher) to try to make a point? Call idiots to people that have another opinion?

That kind of hate makes you bad guy. You should try to easy on...

In my point of view Froome is the favorite, but, Contador is by far better rider and is almist certain that he will end his career with more GT wins than Froome. I don´t know why another opinions borrow you so much, but i know that you shouldn´t behave like this in a forum. You can´t love cycling acting like this. Have a good day.

They have a marvelous feature where you can 'block' posters who choose to post like this. No need for him to leave the forum you can just ignore whatever he says. Also please don't quote the post because then people who already have him Blocked see it .

Nice to meet you and keep posting

It always amazes me that when In these or any forums people react the way they do. Maybe it is because we can hide our selves behind a screen name? I try to think of the posters here as acquaintances I have met up with in a bar or café with a mutual love of cycling but fans of different riders. I might question their opinions but try to treat them as I would in person. I try to take their responses as I would those from a friend giving me a hard time.
I know when I first started lurking on these boards Flo drove me crazy with what I considered an over the top fandom for AC. Now I see her as a passionate supporter who loves cycling (and Alberto) and eagerly await her next post no matter how much I may or may not disagree.

 

[Carols]

Yes cantpedal if we could all just treat each other as acquaintances that love cycling my ignore list would be a lot shorter! It is the anonymity granted by the internet that allows people to show their unpleasant side so easily. Still to be able to communicate with others that love cycling whether they agree with me or not is something I Enjoy .

Obligatory Alberto comment: I hope his prep for P-N is coming along nicely!

 

[lenric]

Contador, in his prime (which is clearly past him. However, that doesn't mean he's still not the best, nor the opposite), was the best rider of his generation and could arguably be better than Froome (any version of him).

Truth is, we're in 2016, and whenever they both faced each other under the same conditions in GTs, Contador has only won one time. Whenever they weren't under the same conditions, Froome lost one time and Contador another time.

We can argue wether Froome is better than the actual Contador or not. However, I believe it is quite clear that Contador has declined since 2009/2010, which is normal, since he is already 33 and fast twitch muscle fibers at that age are worst than they were at our twenties.

Comparing how many GTs one or the other have is a good discussion when their careers are over. Today's ability of each other can be measured in the field and nothing else.

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

Contador solid in the 2011 Tour? What race did you watch? He was way below his usual level. And in 2015 he was bad as well. Contador has shown that he can't do the double. No shame in that.

Froome is the best GT rider and is the rider capable of peaking over the longest period of time. If he set his mind to it, I would definitely rate him higher than Contador for a double attempt.

Also, could you point me to a few results where Froome has been affected by the bad weather? Honest question, because I don't really remember any.

This really doesn't have any sense
Of course he was below his usual level in TdF2011, he was attempting a non-planed Giro-Tour double, what would you expect? He lost time because of a crash and if I rememeber correctly he himself crashed then also. Then of course hhe made crazy attacks and tried to find his luck, which is adorable IMHO. His performace was good and I still believe he would be on the podium without the stage 1 stupid crash.
Why do you want me to point out Froome's results affected by the bad weather. Froome? The guy who is hiding his ass in South Africa because it's too cold in Europe? This Froome should win on Passo dello Stelvio? Mate, I climbed it once in August and it was -5 and snow there ;-) I rememeber Froome being 100+th in some spring races, once it was Tirreno I believe? But it's obvious he chooses races with good weather conditions. and nothing against it, I would do the same, but still it's very questionable how would he deal with weather in Giro - see Rafal Majka for example.

and once more again:
from the group Contador, Froome, Quintana and Nibali.

Who won two GTs in one year?
Contador

Who at least tried G-T double and was at least top 5 in Tour?
Contador

Who has won Giro so far?
Contador, Nibali, Quintana

Who won Vuelta 2014 after participating half Tour?
Contador

Who admit himself that dislikes bad weather?
Froome

Which GT has the more demanding weather conditions?
Giro

Who was not a all good in Vuelta after riding Tour as a domestique?
Froome

and yet you consider Froome the best for double, this is beyond me. I don't say that Bertie would have a better than very small chance to win the double, but that's because with the others riding only Tour it's almost impossible. Still I believe that he's the best choice. Froome hasn't showed anything so far which would make him a favourite for giro-tour double. LaFlo has a point with Froome not able to win Giro - so far he didn't even try to and the theory is against him.

I want you to point to Froome's bad results in bad weather because you were the one bringing them up. I can't remember any, so I expect you to do so when you state that he's bad in bad weather. You bring up a Tirreno result. Which exactly? I remember one stage. He lost a few seconds to Contador.

I'm not saying that Froome is likely to do the Giro-Tour double. In fact, I find it highly unlikely. He's just more likely than anyone else.

The question really comes down to this: Who would you back to win the Giro-Tour double?

a) The world's best GT rider who might not even have reached his peak level yet?
b) The world's second or third best GT rider who is declining and has two failed double attempts in the last five years against questional competition in the Giro?

Considering your later posts you were discussing double-possibilities for upcoming years - that's a surprise for me - I wasn't. No way Bertie is gonna make a Giro-Tour double sometime in 2018, no way Froome's gonna do it, there's a zero chance for him. I was under impression we are discussing theoretical chances for a succesful Giro-Tour double during their careers.
To cover your points: Froome is not the world's best GT rider. He is not about to peak: he has peaked in 2013, he will never have such a succesful season IMHO.

The weather: Keine Ahnung which race it was last year, Bertie was there, finished in top 10 or 5, Froome was in grupetto. It's no secret that he has problems with cold and wet weather and that he was sick last spring, therefore he is hiding his ass in SA right now. I am happy with you thiking something else, I am happy to share opinion of Froome himself. Flo had a point that Froome wouldn't be able to win Giro, by far is Giro the most difficult GT for him.

Since you accused someone later that he didn't read your post and reposted it, I am gonna do the same - you seem to ignore a large part of what I pointed out, here you go:

from the group Contador, Froome, Quintana and Nibali.

Who won two GTs in one year?
Contador

Who at least tried G-T double and was at least top 5 in Tour?
Contador

Who has won Giro so far?
Contador, Nibali, Quintana

Who won Vuelta 2014 after participating half Tour?
Contador

Who admit himself that dislikes bad weather?
Froome

Which GT has the more demanding weather conditions?
Giro

Who was not a all good in Vuelta after riding Tour as a domestique?
Froome (do you rememeber Roberto Heras?)


Froome hasn't so far showed anything that would prove him a better or at least a comparable Giro-Tour double contender to Bertie, whereas Bertie would have had at least a chance during his best years, hadn't he coordinated his preparation and racing better and had had more luck. If you instist on discussing possibility for Giro-Tour double sometime in 2020, then I think Petr Vakoč has more chances than Contador and Froome together ;-)

Bertie has finished the healing of his Badzilla, see you in Paris ;-)

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

i'm going to put a bet on michael schumacher to win the formula 1 WC next year, after all he has more world titles than anyone else so he must still be the favourite right! idiots.

how about this, if you are all so sure that contador hasn't declined so far that froome isn't the clear favourite based on 'recent and relevant' results we have a bet. if both finish without crashing and contador wins i'll leave the board, if froome wins you leave the board. anybody on here arguing that a declining contador, who hasn't won the tour in half a decade is remotely as likely to win the tour as froome is borderline insane.

Oh My god, what a negative opinion for a fourm. I don´t know how the administration let this go...

Talk about a guy that as his live in risk ( shumacher) to try to make a point? Call idiots to people that have another opinion?

That kind of hate makes you bad guy. You should try to easy on...

In my point of view Froome is the favorite, but, Contador is by far better rider and is almist certain that he will end his career with more GT wins than Froome. I don´t know why another opinions borrow you so much, but i know that you shouldn´t behave like this in a forum. You can´t love cycling acting like this. Have a good day.

They have a marvelous feature where you can 'block' posters who choose to post like this. No need for him to leave the forum you can just ignore whatever he says. Also please don't quote the post because then people who already have him Blocked see it .

Nice to meet you and keep posting

It always amazes me that when In these or any forums people react the way they do. Maybe it is because we can hide our selves behind a screen name? I try to think of the posters here as acquaintances I have met up with in a bar or café with a mutual love of cycling but fans of different riders. I might question their opinions but try to treat them as I would in person. I try to take their responses as I would those from a friend giving me a hard time.
I know when I first started lurking on these boards Flo drove me crazy with what I considered an over the top fandom for AC. Now I see her as a passionate supporter who loves cycling (and Alberto) and eagerly await her next post no matter how much I may or may not disagree.

I have a better story: in 2013 LaFlo has said that Bertie should simply retire to prevent more akward losing. I insisted she should keep the high hopes Anyway she is the reason why I check this forum frequently. I can be sure I'm 100% up to date with info about Berto.

 

[filipepc]

.

I will post more now. Everyday i visit cycling news and this forum so i hope i can participate more.

And let´s talk about cyclism, that´s what matters.

If there is no injuries, this year we will have the most strong field in the last years to the tour, with froome, contador, quintana, aru ( i want to see how he is going to be in the tour) and another good riders.

As a sport lover i just hope all get in top form to the race, then we will see.

About my favorite rider, Contador, o hope he can achieve his top form and get another GT. If he can´t, i hope he continue one more year to finish the career with a vuelta victory .