Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Taxus4a]

Re:

https://www.facebook.com/tinkoffsport/videos/844877332280907/

Just posted on FB.
Quick translation?

Conntador knnew his possibilities here were thing go well for him and nnot so well for the rest... and he is dissapoinnted becouse till now everything is againt him...2 crashes, one of them quite hard despite no injuries, and a day where hiss own team make him lose about 10 aditional seconds. so he is not happy.

But he looks quite confident anyway by saying the time pass helping him...and he smiled.

He said it will be good another quite stage for recover better.

It was a long time to get ready for le tour, sponsors, suporters who want I give here everything and later we will see what I can do.

The word in english to say what I unnderstad he is now is: resigned. Not optimistic, not depfressed, just resigned to his bad luck and hoping to be better day by day.

IMO if the race is not hard today, he could be close to his best level tomorrow

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think Hitch is being unfair on Alberto. We shouldn't take this "all or nothing" mantra too literally. When he says 2nd doesn't mean anything, 2nd or 10th it's the same to me, only the win counts, he doesn't mean he will "win or die trying". He means that he will continue to look up, he won't ride to defend his placing, he will look for opportunities to try to get higher in the rankings, preferably 1st.
Of course, this doesn't always work, and no, when it doesn't work, he doesn't always drop multiple places which "all or nothing", "win or die trying" would suggest.
Every time he isn't in the lead, he'll attack to try and gain time, both in GTs and in smaller races. At the TDF, he did it in 2011, 2013 and 2015. No, he wasn't successful, but he tried. We have to understand that successfully attacking and gaining time is much, much harder when you're out of shape or fatigued.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I think Hitch is being unfair on Alberto. We shouldn't take this "all or nothing" mantra too literally. When he says 2nd doesn't mean anything, 2nd or 10th it's the same to me, only the win counts, he doesn't mean he will "win or die trying". He means that he will continue to look up, he won't ride to defend his placing, he will look for opportunities to try to get higher in the rankings, preferably 1st.
Of course, this doesn't always work, and no, when it doesn't work, he doesn't always drop multiple places which "all or nothing", "win or die trying" would suggest.
Every time he isn't in the lead, he'll attack to try and gain time, both in GTs and in smaller races. At the TDF, he did it in 2011, 2013 and 2015. No, he wasn't successful, but he tried. We have to understand that successfully attacking and gaining time is much, much harder when you're out of shape or fatigued.

I don't remember this at all re 2013 and 2015. I remember it in 2011 and 2012 VUelta and 2014 Tirreno, but not at all in 2013 or 2015. Just Contador saying "I will attack" but with the exception of that one descent where he and Kreuziger attacked for about 2 minutes, nothing.
In 2013 I even remember a stage in the Pyranees where Froome was isolated and Saxo were content to let Movistar ride to the finish for him. I also remember another stage where Froome was almost isolated early and Saxo didn't try anything either.

Reaaaaly chearing for him to hold on until d'Aspin. Maybe 1 more minute until then. Sky+Movi+Astana will go 110% to eliminate him wednesday and he knows it. To me he'ld never go for stages. What i like a lot about him is exactly the attitude of "all-in" or go home. He doesnt defend a 3rd(!?). He'll go for broke and I'll be cheering for him doing it and if the gods of cycling give a little help..

Umm contador rode for 3rd both the last 2 tour de France's he finished.

Thing is he was in poor shape those 2 TdF's and his legs didn't give him any chance of winning the TdF so there was not much else to do.

The problem I have with that is, it was obvious from the very start he had no form. In 2013 some people reported it before the Tour had even began (and the results showed) that Contador had no form.

But he and a lot of the fans kept deluding themselves that it was magically going to come in the 3rd week.
2015 same thing. He did the Giro. A number of us said when he announced he would do the Giro that this was a mistake. Unless he had a plan.

He had no plan. Again it was - lets just ride and see what happens.

Does anyone believe Contador won any of the 9 gts he has by turning up and "seeing what happens". Maybe, maybe the 2008 Giro but that was against weaker competition. The others, no.

So for Contador to turn up to these races with no form but act like he felt he could actually win, was disapointing.

 

[movingtarget]

The unfortunate thing for Contador is that he seemed to have his best chance in the Tour for a few years going into the 2014 Tour but he crashed out. As many other riders have discovered, those opportunities come and go and when the form is really good you have to make the most of them but of course crashes and bad luck come into the equation. 2014 may have been the last really good chance for Contador to win the Tour but I was still looking forward to a battle between the favourites this year and that scenario already seems unlikely unless he recovers quickly. Motivation and toughness have never been a problem for Contador but injuries, illness or crashes can ruin anyone's race. Still the first week is only half done and other GC riders can also suffer bad luck. Geraint Thomas is struggling with injuries and he is usually important for Froome especially now that Porte has left Sky but the Sky squad has depth that others don't.

 

[Kwibus]

Last year he thought he could do it. In 2014 he felt amazing, going in tdf superstrong, but crashing out seriously. Recovering in time to win the Vuelta.

I think he felt superconfident and thought he could the double. Well that was obviously a mistake. If you don't try you will never fail.
It was kind of brave to try imo, maybe not smart though.

Ofcourse 2013 and 2015 were dissapointing TdF performances for a rider like Contador, but there were obvious reasons for it. Maybe 2013 less so, but he was just crap that year.

The never say die attitude he has is obvious though. When it's possible he tries it all, last 2 appearances in the TdF he simply didn't have anything to try. He maybe wanted, but his rivals were simply a lot stronger.
Also after these 2 crashes he's not giving up, he certainly could've done that imo since the only thing that's likely to happen is that he gets his ass spanked as he simply isn't recovered enough. Certainly not for the TdF when the lvl is at his highest.
He won't give up though.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

The unfortunate thing for Contador is that he seemed to have his best chance in the Tour for a few years going into the 2014 Tour but he crashed out. As many other riders have discovered, those opportunities come and go and when the form is really good you have to make the most of them but of course crashes and bad luck come into the equation. 2014 may have been the last really good chance for Contador to win the Tour but I was still looking forward to a battle between the favourites this year and that scenario already seems unlikely unless he recovers quickly. Motivation and toughness have never been a problem for Contador but injuries, illness or crashes can ruin anyone's race. Still the first week is only half done and other GC riders can also suffer bad luck. Geraint Thomas is struggling with injuries and he is usually important for Froome especially now that Porte has left Sky but the Sky squad has depth that others don't.

Yeh well, they still have Henao, Landa, Poels and Kirienka. Thomas not feeling great isn't really a big problem imo.

Bad luck...yes that possible, but I have to say that Froome has been great in avoiding trouble since last year.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I don't remember this at all re 2013 and 2015. I remember it in 2011 and 2012 VUelta and 2014 Tirreno, but not at all in 2013 or 2015. Just Contador saying "I will attack" but with the exception of that one descent where he and Kreuziger attacked for about 2 minutes, nothing.

Well you clearly didn't pay much attention or perhaps you are just ignorant on purpose, because ever since he didn't manage to live up to your insane hype in 2012 you've taken every opportunity to slag him off.
In 2013, he attacked with his team on stage 13, he attacked on the climb and the downhill on the stage to Gap and he also attacked on the descent of Alpe d'Huez. In 2015, he attacked on Plateau de Beille after getting his arse handed to him 2 days earlier, and he attacked early on two or three times: I remember him attacking on the first climb of the day, attacking with Rogers and bridging to Barguil and Bobby Gesink, but I am not sure if those were 3 seperate occasions or just 2.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps he didn't always manage attack uphill because he was simply in *** form and almost always at his limit? Probably not.
Can you name me one rider who finished 4th or 5th in a GT in recent years who attacked more and tried harder to gain time and climb on the GC?

The problem I have with that is, it was obvious from the very start he had no form. In 2013 some people reported it before the Tour had even began (and the results showed) that Contador had no form.

But he and a lot of the fans kept deluding themselves that it was magically going to come in the 3rd week.
2015 same thing. He did the Giro. A number of us said when he announced he would do the Giro that this was a mistake. Unless he had a plan.

He had no plan. Again it was - lets just ride and see what happens.

Does anyone believe Contador won any of the 9 gts he has by turning up and "seeing what happens". Maybe, maybe the 2008 Giro but that was against weaker competition. The others, no.

So for Contador to turn up to these races with no form but act like he felt he could actually win, was disapointing.

So what should he have done instead, in your opinion? Announce that he wouldn't have a chance to win so best not expect too much? Or should he just have flipped the finger to his sponsors and not started the Tour to save his fans from disappointment?
Do you think he has off-years on purpose?

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe he didn't anticipate almost crashing out of the Giro last year. That take a lot of energy. That's all a butterfly effect really.

 

[dacooley]

Chris Froome in the 2012 Vuelta.

 

[Carols]

Alberto posted on FB this AM.
Google translated:
"when everything seems to go against you remember that an airplane takes off against the wind"

He's not giving up

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Alberto posted on FB this AM.
Google translated:
"when everything seems to go against you remember that an airplane takes off against the wind"

He's not giving up

Yes thats great! We have to hope he will lose minimum tomorrow and also will try to limit his losses on friday. Although Im a bit worried about that shoulder because off saddle climbing is really important for him, ...damn crashes

 

[lenric]

I'm sure he'll do just fine. Tomorrow's not that decisive anyway. And if he really has the form/legs, he will win the ITTs.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Alberto posted on FB this AM.
Google translated:
"when everything seems to go against you remember that an airplane takes off against the wind"

He's not giving up

Yes thats great! We have to hope he will lose minimum tomorrow and also will try to limit his losses on friday. Although Im a bit worried about that shoulder because off saddle climbing is really important for him, ...damn crashes

Fingers crossed, tomorrow is Very Important. I guess we'll find out how he is feeling, there will be no hiding. They will ride to eliminate him.....

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Alberto posted on FB this AM.
Google translated:
"when everything seems to go against you remember that an airplane takes off against the wind"

He's not giving up

Yes thats great! We have to hope he will lose minimum tomorrow and also will try to limit his losses on friday. Although Im a bit worried about that shoulder because off saddle climbing is really important for him, ...damn crashes

Fingers crossed, tomorrow is Very Important. I guess we'll find out how he is feeling, there will be no hiding. They will ride to eliminate him.....

with the premise that for me it is already over, but for those who still believe, tomorrow Alberto has to lose to at most a few seconds and absolutely nothing on Friday !

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

In 2015, he attacked on Plateau de Beille after getting his **** handed to him 2 days earlier, and he attacked early on two or three times: I remember him attacking on the first climb of the day, attacking with Rogers and bridging to Barguil and Bobby Gesink, but I am not sure if those were 3 seperate occasions or just 2.

[/quote]
He attacked on Plateau de Beille.
He briefly attacked during the 16th stage to Gap but couldn't distance anybody.
He attacked again on the 17th stage (I think it's the one you mention with Rodgers). That was the moment TJVG cracked.
He attacked on the 18th stage (Glandon) with Gesink and Barguil, they got a 40 seconds gap but they were caught on the following descent.
Finally, he attacked on the 19th stage (Col de Fer) and made a huge selection before Nibali attacked (chaingate 2.0).

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

The unfortunate thing for Contador is that he seemed to have his best chance in the Tour for a few years going into the 2014 Tour but he crashed out. As many other riders have discovered, those opportunities come and go and when the form is really good you have to make the most of them but of course crashes and bad luck come into the equation. 2014 may have been the last really good chance for Contador to win the Tour but I was still looking forward to a battle between the favourites this year and that scenario already seems unlikely unless he recovers quickly. Motivation and toughness have never been a problem for Contador but injuries, illness or crashes can ruin anyone's race. Still the first week is only half done and other GC riders can also suffer bad luck. Geraint Thomas is struggling with injuries and he is usually important for Froome especially now that Porte has left Sky but the Sky squad has depth that others don't.

Yes, Contador lost a good oportunnity, but Froome losed a bigger one.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Alberto posted on FB this AM.
Google translated:
"when everything seems to go against you remember that an airplane takes off against the wind"

He's not giving up

Yes thats great! We have to hope he will lose minimum tomorrow and also will try to limit his losses on friday. Although Im a bit worried about that shoulder because off saddle climbing is really important for him, ...damn crashes

Fingers crossed, tomorrow is Very Important. I guess we'll find out how he is feeling, there will be no hiding. They will ride to eliminate him.....

with the premise that for me it is already over, but for those who still believe, tomorrow Alberto has to lose to at most a few seconds and absolutely nothing on Friday !

In the Giro just a month or so back that old premise 'it's not over until it's over' was proven yet again. Sure it's a Long Shot but that doesn't mean he can't heal and win a stage or even podium if he is doing better soon. But yes the time loss must be Minimal.

 

[Miburo]

Tomorrow we'll know it all, sky will definitely go hard. If Contador recovered, he'll be able to follow easily and then he has until sunday to be in peak shape.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Alberto posted on FB this AM.
Google translated:
"when everything seems to go against you remember that an airplane takes off against the wind"

He's not giving up

Yes thats great! We have to hope he will lose minimum tomorrow and also will try to limit his losses on friday. Although Im a bit worried about that shoulder because off saddle climbing is really important for him, ...damn crashes

Fingers crossed, tomorrow is Very Important. I guess we'll find out how he is feeling, there will be no hiding. They will ride to eliminate him.....

with the premise that for me it is already over, but for those who still believe, tomorrow Alberto has to lose to at most a few seconds and absolutely nothing on Friday !

In the Giro just a month or so back that old premise 'it's not over until it's over' was proven yet again. Sure it's a Long Shot but that doesn't mean he can't heal and win a stage or even podium if he is doing better soon. But yes the time loss must be Minimal.

yeah, but I was referring to the victory. for me (but I think for him) podium or stage win are rubbish
winning is the only thing that matters, especially for a guy who has already won everything :razz:

 

[Poursuivant]

Re:

Tomorrow we'll know it all, sky will definitely go hard. If Contador recovered, he'll be able to follow easily and then he has until sunday to be in peak shape.

You think they will go hard though? It's really early in the race with a backloaded TDF, and the first climb tomorrow is 40km out, I am not convinced they will drill it, I think Sagan has a good chance to win the stage.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He attacked on Plateau de Beille.
He briefly attacked during the 16th stage to Gap but couldn't distance anybody.
He attacked again on the 17th stage (I think it's the one you mention with Rodgers). That was the moment TJVG cracked.
He attacked on the 18th stage (Glandon) with Gesink and Barguil, they got a 40 seconds gap but they were caught on the following descent.
Finally, he attacked on the 19th stage (Col de Fer) and made a huge selection before Nibali attacked (chaingate 2.0).

Thanks!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Tomorrow we'll know it all, sky will definitely go hard. If Contador recovered, he'll be able to follow easily and then he has until sunday to be in peak shape.

You think they will go hard though? It's really early in the race with a backloaded TDF, and the first climb tomorrow is 40km out, I am not convinced they will drill it, I think Sagan has a good chance to win the stage.

If Sky and Movistar don't make it hard for Alberto tomorrow, they are really stupid. Sure, he may only have an outside chance right now but you never know. They should try to dispose of him for good while they can.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Tomorrow we'll know it all, sky will definitely go hard. If Contador recovered, he'll be able to follow easily and then he has until sunday to be in peak shape.

You think they will go hard though? It's really early in the race with a backloaded TDF, and the first climb tomorrow is 40km out, I am not convinced they will drill it, I think Sagan has a good chance to win the stage.

If Sky and Movistar don't make it hard for Alberto tomorrow, they are really stupid. Sure, he may only have an outside chance right now but you never know. They should try to dispose of him for good while they can.

They will put him to the sword unless their DSs are total idiots. He is to dangerous not to eliminate while he is hurting. It will be a real test for him.....

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

Tomorrow we'll know it all, sky will definitely go hard. If Contador recovered, he'll be able to follow easily and then he has until sunday to be in peak shape.

You think they will go hard though? It's really early in the race with a backloaded TDF, and the first climb tomorrow is 40km out, I am not convinced they will drill it, I think Sagan has a good chance to win the stage.

If Sky and Movistar don't make it hard for Alberto tomorrow, they are really stupid. Sure, he may only have an outside chance right now but you never know. They should try to dispose of him for good while they can.

I agree that they should try to lift the pace particularly on that climb with 3km of 9%, but they might be put off by the long distance to the finish and the fact the finishing climb is relatively straightforward. We shall see, let's hope there are no crashes today, and today and tomorrow isn't as coma inducing as yesterday.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I don't remember this at all re 2013 and 2015. I remember it in 2011 and 2012 VUelta and 2014 Tirreno, but not at all in 2013 or 2015. Just Contador saying "I will attack" but with the exception of that one descent where he and Kreuziger attacked for about 2 minutes, nothing.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps he didn't always manage attack uphill because he was simply in **** form and almost always at his limit? Probably not.

Clearly yes, because it was the second part of my post, which ironically, you responded to below

Can you name me one rider who finished 4th or 5th in a GT in recent years who attacked more and tried harder to gain time and climb on the GC?

The problem I have with that is, it was obvious from the very start he had no form. In 2013 some people reported it before the Tour had even began (and the results showed) that Contador had no form.

But he and a lot of the fans kept deluding themselves that it was magically going to come in the 3rd week.
2015 same thing. He did the Giro. A number of us said when he announced he would do the Giro that this was a mistake. Unless he had a plan.

He had no plan. Again it was - lets just ride and see what happens.

Does anyone believe Contador won any of the 9 gts he has by turning up and "seeing what happens". Maybe, maybe the 2008 Giro but that was against weaker competition. The others, no.

So for Contador to turn up to these races with no form but act like he felt he could actually win, was disapointing.

So what should he have done instead, in your opinion? Announce that he wouldn't have a chance to win so best not expect too much? Or should he just have flipped the finger to his sponsors and not started the Tour to save his fans from disappointment?
Do you think he has off-years on purpose?

Well there was a lot of rhetoric about how Contador "doesn't care if he comes 2nd or 10th" (which he clearly did because he rode for 3rd place in both Tours) and how he was going to light up the final week trying to win the race.

And it wasn't true. I think its legitimate to criticise Contador for that. I know that some of you live still live in a binary world where everyone either despises Contador or loves him, and others live in the even greater delusion that the man can do no wrong.

I've always occupied the middle ground belief that no human is perfect, praise them when they deserve it and criticize them when they deserve that