Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[jilbiker]

It is difficult to make a comparison of AC and Froome with this Super team Sky. i was thinking today that almost anyone can win with such a Team backing you. Not to take anything away from Froome but the team strength is ridiculous. I do not see anyway AC could have beaten that team this year, injury or not, even if he was 27, even if he trained with 1000hrs/100k ft of climbing. If Trek is not going to make a focused single approach to win the TDF next year, then AC should not waste his time and go to TDF. To beat Sky you have to have

1/ at least 3 A class climbers aside from your Leader
2/ a single leader, no co-leader
3/ 2 A class flat road riders whose job is to champion the leader in the flats
4/ 2 B class climbers/flat road riders
5/ At least 4 of them (2 climbers and 2 flat) need to train and perhaps live regularly with leader
6/ One single purpose in the TDF
7/ Have playbook moves that are practiced specifically for the Tour

Anything short of this will go no where with beating Sky. It costs money, lots. A pity that's what it comes down to wrt winning the Tour.

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

Re:

Its up for debate in 2011, but riding the Giro (especially so 'reckless' with the Tour in mind) made it very, very hard. Especially with no team. Yeah, he crashed, but I think he maximum could have achieved a podium behind Evans and Andy.
I don't think he ever could have won the Tour in 2012 on that horrific route, but could have but up a very good fight at least. Much better than Nibali obviously.

2014 is intriguing. Lets say Froome didn't crash and Alberto didn't either: 33%, 33%, 33%. Your choice, depending on who you support. I still say Nibali in a dream would where we got to see those 3 in peak shape due to the cobbles. He wrecked them (Froome possibly a little less) and proceeded to wreck a weak field on the MTFs, very impressive nonetheless.

Could have made Tour 2016 exciting. Chances are Froome still would have won.

The bolded, can you elavorate on it Seems I'm missing something here

 

[Valv.Piti]

All I mean is in hindsight, he could maybe have prepared to be on a slightly lower level and chilled a bit on some stages. Look how dominant he was in that Giro and how relatively weak he was 2 months afterwards. Its not far fetched to think he could have won that Giro on cruise control and proceeded to the Tour where he would have been on a bigger level

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

All I mean is in hindsight, he could maybe have prepared to be on a slightly lower level and chilled a bit on some stages. Look how dominant he was in that Giro and how relatively weak he was 2 months afterwards. Its not far fetched to think he could have won that Giro on cruise control and proceeded to the Tour where he would have been on a bigger level

Yeah, but I don't think he expected to ride the Tour

 

[Netserk]

Re:

All I mean is in hindsight, he could maybe have prepared to be on a slightly lower level and chilled a bit on some stages. Look how dominant he was in that Giro and how relatively weak he was 2 months afterwards. Its not far fetched to think he could have won that Giro on cruise control and proceeded to the Tour where he would have been on a bigger level

He wasn't really that weak. On the Mur he was excellent, the Pyrenees were down to his crashes. What did him in on Galibier was fatigue related bonk (I think), his form was fine the days before and after. I agree that it would have been better for his Tour chances, if he had taken it easier in the Giro, but the most crucial aspect was still the crashes in the Tour, imo.

 

[Bardamu]

Alberto would have spiced things up atleast, with the help of Sagan, Kreuziger and Majka. Difficult to say if he would have been able to win, but the Tour would have been much more exciting with Contador.

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

Re:

All I mean is in hindsight, he could maybe have prepared to be on a slightly lower level and chilled a bit on some stages. Look how dominant he was in that Giro and how relatively weak he was 2 months afterwards. Its not far fetched to think he could have won that Giro on cruise control and proceeded to the Tour where he would have been on a bigger level

As LaFlorecita says, he didn't expect to ride the Tour in 2011. I knew what you were trying to say, I was just amazed at your certainty in claiming he knew he was going to ride the Tour while riding the Giro.

Alberto Contador: "En 2011 fui al Tour por obligación después de haber ganado el Giro, en el que me dejé mucho. El sponsor me avisó 10 días antes de que tenía que ir al Tour."

Basically says he was forced to go to the Tour by the sponsor 10 days before the grand depart after giving it everything at the Giro


For what it's worth, he gave an interview were he analyzed his previous five participations at the Tour.

He analizado varias veces los últimos cinco Tours y las conclusiones que he extraído me dan bastante moral, porque siempre he encontrado una explicación. En 2011 fui al Tour por obligación después de haber ganado el Giro, en el que me dejé mucho. El sponsor me avisó 10 días antes de que tenía que ir al Tour. Y allí, pese a sufrir dos caídas importantes, estuve luchando por la victoria y rindiendo a gran nivel salvo el día malo que pasé en el Galibier, en el que perdí todo. En 2013 cambié de residencia a Lugano y estuve a contrapié todo el año. Entre unas cosas y otras, no llegué como debía. En 2014 volví a hacer la preparación de siempre y empecé a combinarlo con altitud en el Teide y llegué óptimo al Tour, con mucha seguridad. La caída en la etapa décima, cuando iba a empezar la montaña, me pilló con las mejores sensaciones de toda mi vida, pero me fui a casa. En 2015 me apetecía correr el Giro porque había ganado la Vuelta el año anterior y quería completar también tres Giros. Lo corrí y lo gané, y luego me preparé muy bien para el Tour en el mes entre medias, pero el cuerpo no respondió y no recuperé como había pensado. Analizándolo se ve que desde 2010 solo preparé a conciencia el de 2014, y me caí.

Basically what Vino attacks everyone says: "...
2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck
2013: was ****
2014: was back to his best but unfortunately fell
2015: did a giro at 90% to peak for tour, but failed [body didn't respond]
2016: was in good to great shape, but as we know fell."

You can take it or leave it. Treat is as cheap excuses or good reasons but the guys luck at the Tour has been sh*** and I'm not just talking about this^ just in general when it comes to ASO races.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Re: Re:

All I mean is in hindsight, he could maybe have prepared to be on a slightly lower level and chilled a bit on some stages. Look how dominant he was in that Giro and how relatively weak he was 2 months afterwards. Its not far fetched to think he could have won that Giro on cruise control and proceeded to the Tour where he would have been on a bigger level

As LaFlorecita says, he didn't expect to ride the Tour in 2011. I knew what you were trying to say, I was just amazed at your certainty in claiming he knew he was going to ride the Tour while riding the Giro.

Alberto Contador: "En 2011 fui al Tour por obligación después de haber ganado el Giro, en el que me dejé mucho. El sponsor me avisó 10 días antes de que tenía que ir al Tour."

Basically says he was forced to go to the Tour by the sponsor 10 days before the grand depart after giving it everything at the Giro


For what it's worth, he gave an interview were he analyzed his previous five participations at the Tour.

He analizado varias veces los últimos cinco Tours y las conclusiones que he extraído me dan bastante moral, porque siempre he encontrado una explicación. En 2011 fui al Tour por obligación después de haber ganado el Giro, en el que me dejé mucho. El sponsor me avisó 10 días antes de que tenía que ir al Tour. Y allí, pese a sufrir dos caídas importantes, estuve luchando por la victoria y rindiendo a gran nivel salvo el día malo que pasé en el Galibier, en el que perdí todo. En 2013 cambié de residencia a Lugano y estuve a contrapié todo el año. Entre unas cosas y otras, no llegué como debía. En 2014 volví a hacer la preparación de siempre y empecé a combinarlo con altitud en el Teide y llegué óptimo al Tour, con mucha seguridad. La caída en la etapa décima, cuando iba a empezar la montaña, me pilló con las mejores sensaciones de toda mi vida, pero me fui a casa. En 2015 me apetecía correr el Giro porque había ganado la Vuelta el año anterior y quería completar también tres Giros. Lo corrí y lo gané, y luego me preparé muy bien para el Tour en el mes entre medias, pero el cuerpo no respondió y no recuperé como había pensado. Analizándolo se ve que desde 2010 solo preparé a conciencia el de 2014, y me caí.

Basically what Vino attacks everyone says: "...
2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck
2013: was ****
2014: was back to his best but unfortunately fell
2015: did a giro at 90% to peak for tour, but failed [body didn't respond]
2016: was in good to great shape, but as we know fell."

You can take it or leave it. Treat is as cheap excuses or good reasons but the guys luck at the Tour has been sh*** and I'm not just talking about this^ just in general when it comes to ASO races.

I thought he wanted to go after the court date got pushed back for the 20th time.

I hope he wins all the classifications plus 4 stage wins at the Vuelta.

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

Alberto would have spiced things up atleast, with the help of Sagan, Kreuziger and Majka. Difficult to say if he would have been able to win, but the Tour would have been much more exciting with Contador.

Does Majka ride for Alberto?

 

[Jelantik]

well, the tour now is done and dusted. One thing that's prevented Contador to contest for next year TDF is how to not crash . He isn't targeting the Giro next year, so I expected his program will be the same as this year. I hope he got a better support with Trek. Mollema, Stetina, Arendodo.. hopefully Pantano.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry, I'm new here and trying to make sense of this forum.
I know very well the results for the last decade and so on, and if I come on as trolling it's not what I intend at all.
I don't know how to rephrase that question, because for me it seems there was some "hidden" meaning behind the post I was replying to.

For the record; I'm basically a fan of most road cyclists (Contador and Pantani above all). There is no vitriol to be found in here.

Cheers, and sorry again if I came about with the wrong side or something

The general consensus, at least in this thread, is that AC should have/ has done this over the last 9 years:
2007: Won the tour, even though Rasmussen probably should have. People disagree.
2008: was easily the strongest gt rider
2009: easily strongest gt rider
2010: was slightly weaker than 2009, but still stronget gt rider
2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck
2012: doping ban and a "bad" vuelta form wise
2013: was ****
2014: was back to his best but unfortunately fell
2015: did a giro at 90% to peak for tour, but failed
2016: was in good to great shape, but as we know fell.

So in theory he should/ could have won the tour in 2011, 2012 without ban, 2014 and this year.

Well, that makes me even more confused? Seems you guys are good at wouldashoulda type of argument, but what's the point of that?

Anyway, hoping he will be at Trek next year with a strong team and which GT(s) he will target will surely be livened from his presence (I hope!)

Edit: Don't know why I'm now the quotee, as I should be the quoter (or something).. Well, it's late... good night.

For me there's only one main point. Even though he hasn't won the Tour since 2009/10 - he still has reached great form. He's still capable of racing with the best of the best and beating them. It's not like 2009 was his last good year. But one might think this if they only went by his Tour performances.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry, I'm new here and trying to make sense of this forum.
I know very well the results for the last decade and so on, and if I come on as trolling it's not what I intend at all.
I don't know how to rephrase that question, because for me it seems there was some "hidden" meaning behind the post I was replying to.

For the record; I'm basically a fan of most road cyclists (Contador and Pantani above all). There is no vitriol to be found in here.

Cheers, and sorry again if I came about with the wrong side or something

The general consensus, at least in this thread, is that AC should have/ has done this over the last 9 years:
2007: Won the tour, even though Rasmussen probably should have. People disagree.
2008: was easily the strongest gt rider
2009: easily strongest gt rider
2010: was slightly weaker than 2009, but still stronget gt rider
2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck
2012: doping ban and a "bad" vuelta form wise
2013: was ****
2014: was back to his best but unfortunately fell
2015: did a giro at 90% to peak for tour, but failed
2016: was in good to great shape, but as we know fell.

So in theory he should/ could have won the tour in 2011, 2012 without ban, 2014 and this year.

Well, that makes me even more confused? Seems you guys are good at wouldashoulda type of argument, but what's the point of that?

Anyway, hoping he will be at Trek next year with a strong team and which GT(s) he will target will surely be livened from his presence (I hope!)

Edit: Don't know why I'm now the quotee, as I should be the quoter (or something).. Well, it's late... good night.

For me there's only one main point. Even though he hasn't won the Tour since 2009/10 - he still has reached great form. He's still capable of racing with the best of the best and beating them. It's not like 2009 was his last good year. But one might think this if they only went by his Tour performances.

Even so no podium at the Tour since 2010 is a big gap on his record especially when the Tour is usually the hardest race to win with the best field. 2014 is probably the one he will regret the most as he seemed to be on great form that year when he crashed out. But with Froome's crash a few days ago it just highlights how fine a line there is between fortune and disaster as he could have quite easily broken a collarbone. Dumoulin falls in what seemed to be a gentle crash and he went out while Rolland is crashing all over the place and is still able to continue. To ride a bike for three weeks in all weather, the elements of luck with injuries and falls can't be denied. Contador would be hoping to finish the Tour at least next year as well as getting a good result. I think he will bounce back in the Vuelta and without Sky controlling things it might be an entertaining race. Over that last five years or so the Vuelta probably has been the most entertaining GT with some really good battles even if sometimes the field is a bit depleted compared to the Tour.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry, I'm new here and trying to make sense of this forum.
I know very well the results for the last decade and so on, and if I come on as trolling it's not what I intend at all.
I don't know how to rephrase that question, because for me it seems there was some "hidden" meaning behind the post I was replying to.

For the record; I'm basically a fan of most road cyclists (Contador and Pantani above all). There is no vitriol to be found in here.

Cheers, and sorry again if I came about with the wrong side or something

The general consensus, at least in this thread, is that AC should have/ has done this over the last 9 years:
2007: Won the tour, even though Rasmussen probably should have. People disagree.
2008: was easily the strongest gt rider
2009: easily strongest gt rider
2010: was slightly weaker than 2009, but still stronget gt rider
2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck
2012: doping ban and a "bad" vuelta form wise
2013: was ****
2014: was back to his best but unfortunately fell
2015: did a giro at 90% to peak for tour, but failed
2016: was in good to great shape, but as we know fell.

So in theory he should/ could have won the tour in 2011, 2012 without ban, 2014 and this year.

Well, that makes me even more confused? Seems you guys are good at wouldashoulda type of argument, but what's the point of that?

Anyway, hoping he will be at Trek next year with a strong team and which GT(s) he will target will surely be livened from his presence (I hope!)

Edit: Don't know why I'm now the quotee, as I should be the quoter (or something).. Well, it's late... good night.

For me there's only one main point. Even though he hasn't won the Tour since 2009/10 - he still has reached great form. He's still capable of racing with the best of the best and beating them. It's not like 2009 was his last good year. But one might think this if they only went by his Tour performances.

Even so no podium at the Tour since 2010 is a big gap on his record especially when the Tour is usually the hardest race to win with the best field. 2014 is probably the one he will regret the most as he seemed to be on great form that year when he crashed out. But with Froome's crash a few days ago it just highlights how fine a line there is between fortune and disaster as he could have quite easily broken a collarbone. Dumoulin falls in what seemed to be a gentle crash and he went out while Rolland is crashing all over the place and is still able to continue. To ride a bike for three weeks in all weather, the elements of luck with injuries and falls can't be denied. Contador would be hoping to finish the Tour at least next year as well as getting a good result. I think he will bounce back in the Vuelta and without Sky controlling things it might be an entertaining race. Over that last five years or so the Vuelta probably has been the most entertaining GT with some really good battles even if sometimes the field is a bit depleted compared to the Tour.

I agree it's definitely a big gap. It would look much better with another Tour win in there somewhere....or next year (fingers crossed).

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Don't get blaming bad luck for Contador fail - he himself said that the first crash was his fault. When someone says it was his fault, it is no longer bad luck.

You do realise that those serious injuries (all on the left side) were from the 2nd crash?

You do realise that this is not even true? And even if it was, you can't know what injuries came of each crash. You would need much more detailed medical report.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Don't get blaming bad luck for Contador fail - he himself said that the first crash was his fault. When someone says it was his fault, it is no longer bad luck.

You do realise that those serious injuries (all on the left side) were from the 2nd crash?

You do realise that this is not even true? And even if it was, you can't know what injuries came of each crash. You would need much more detailed medical report.

uhhh?
all of those serious injuries were on the left side.he fell on the right side (right shoulder issue) in his 1st fall and on the left during 2 fall,its not really difficult to understand that.

Your posts are more and more ridiculous, as once were on that czech forum(site), so Im going for the ignore choice here.you dont bring any added value to my reading experience as oppose to many other trolls/haters here...

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

uhhh?
all of those serious injuries were on the left side.he fell on the right side (right shoulder issue) in his 1st fall and on the left during 2 fall,its not really difficult to understand that.

As for what I remember the medical report mentioned injuries on both sides. And, when you fall and are rolling after that, injuries can come from the rolling.Neither you nor me can really know what injuries come from which fall, medical report didn't mention that. Most serious injuries can be where where wasn't direct hit. His most serious injury is probably left harmstring injury which is likely to result from not direct hit but excessive strain and that could happen anywhere in that falls.
Edir: like - unless you know mechanism of injury you can't know cause of it.

 

[Kokoso]

well, the tour now is done and dusted. One thing that's prevented Contador to contest for next year TDF is how to not crash . He isn't targeting the Giro next year, so I expected his program will be the same as this year. I hope he got a better support with Trek. Mollema, Stetina, Arendodo.. hopefully Pantano.

I can understand hope for better support but don't think support was problem at Tour. He would have decent support in Majka and Kreuziger, maybe even Kiserlovski would do someting then. And mostly he had decent support in Rogers, Kreuziger, even Majka, and lots of others pulling on flat etc.

 

[perico]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry, I'm new here and trying to make sense of this forum.
I know very well the results for the last decade and so on, and if I come on as trolling it's not what I intend at all.
I don't know how to rephrase that question, because for me it seems there was some "hidden" meaning behind the post I was replying to.

For the record; I'm basically a fan of most road cyclists (Contador and Pantani above all). There is no vitriol to be found in here.

Cheers, and sorry again if I came about with the wrong side or something

The general consensus, at least in this thread, is that AC should have/ has done this over the last 9 years:
2007: Won the tour, even though Rasmussen probably should have. People disagree.
2008: was easily the strongest gt rider
2009: easily strongest gt rider
2010: was slightly weaker than 2009, but still stronget gt rider
2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck
2012: doping ban and a "bad" vuelta form wise
2013: was ****
2014: was back to his best but unfortunately fell
2015: did a giro at 90% to peak for tour, but failed
2016: was in good to great shape, but as we know fell.

So in theory he should/ could have won the tour in 2011, 2012 without ban, 2014 and this year.

Well, that makes me even more confused? Seems you guys are good at wouldashoulda type of argument, but what's the point of that?

Anyway, hoping he will be at Trek next year with a strong team and which GT(s) he will target will surely be livened from his presence (I hope!)

Didn''t say I necessarily believe this
Persoanlly I think he was lucky in 07 was the best gc rider from 08-11 and then has been tier 1 gc rider, but not dominant (with the exception of 13, where he was awful). I do however believe he can win a tour again, which I guess makes me more of a fan than most people on this forum.

Totally agree with your last sentence, he can definitely win a tour again (a young man still, if the power meter means f### all, why should his age?), so let's look forward instead of towards our behinds.
The rest seems a bit conditional, let's not get into what could have been. He's a great rider and an attacking fighter. That is enough for me, regardless of any situation or time.

Good night, and good luck! (He will win San Seb from late breakaway with 23 seconds, I see predictions are the game on this site, surely I must participate!).[/quote]

If I remember correctly, you could also make the case that Rasmussen was lucky to be in a position to win regardless. He was a less terrible version of Oscar Pereiro in 2007 before his expulsion. Contador entered the race as an outsider but there's no way the other GC favorites would've let him up the road the way they did Chicken. Even a rider of Contador's limited reputation would've been marked by that point. It was a massive blunder by Cuddles, Valverde, Leipheimer squads to let the Chicken up the road. Contador wasn't team leader that early and Astana were in limbo with Vinos injuries.

Rasmussen was gifted a massive lead. It certainly would've been a win had he not been withdrawn, but it was still a bit of a fluke.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Re: Re:

2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck

Are you serious? The double is simply not possible when riding clean. If it ever happens it will be because every other major rider has been knocked out by crashes or sickness.

Had Contador received the same treatment Froome did on Ventoux this year in 2011 he would have podiumed already. And Contador looked truly awful for most of that Tour. Had he not crashed and perhaps not destroyed the f*ck out of the Giro the double was easily within range. For example if it was the 2015 Giro he raced that year where he bossed it but still left some in the tank I think he would have won. The 2011 Giro was the most dominant GT showing in a long long time. I know could have, should have but that year was made for it. FFS Cadel bloody Evans won it that year, that tells you how much of a missed chance it was.

 

[Red Rick]

Steven de Jongh joins Contador in going to Trek

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

2011: was in immense shape, and could have challenged for the double wasn't it for a few crashes and bad luck

Are you serious? The double is simply not possible when riding clean. If it ever happens it will be because every other major rider has been knocked out by crashes or sickness.

Had Contador received the same treatment Froome did on Ventoux this year in 2011 he would have podiumed already. And Contador looked truly awful for most of that Tour. Had he not crashed and perhaps not destroyed the f*ck out of the Giro the double was easily within range. For example if it was the 2015 Giro he raced that year where he bossed it but still left some in the tank I think he would have won. The 2011 Giro was the most dominant GT showing in a long long time. I know could have, should have but that year was made for it. FFS Cadel bloody Evans won it that year, that tells you how much of a missed chance it was.

The double is a dream these days and when you have a rider like Evans who prepared for the Tour and had two previous podiums one of them to Contador, defeated by 25 seconds or so it shows you how hard it is to achieve after Contador competed a hard Giro, easy win but on a hard course. You need some luck to win one GT but two in one year is never easy especially with little recovery time. Contador was the most obvious one to do the double but it never happened. Such is life. He also had the misfortune to meet Evans that year who was strong for the entire three weeks unlike in the past. But Contador finished fourth not second so he was a long way from winning it anyway.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Had he not crashed and perhaps not destroyed the f*ck out of the Giro the double was easily within range.

The double is always within range... on paper.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Even tours are bad for him with reasons getting duplicated
2006 - unable to participate
2008 - unable to participate
2010 - banned
2012 - banned
2014 - crash
2016 - crash
2018 - ?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Even tours are bad for him with reasons getting duplicated
2006 - unable to participate
2008 - unable to participate
2010 - banned
2012 - banned
2014 - crash
2016 - crash
2018 - retired
2020 - retired

I fear it will be like this.

 

[Red Rick]

I still think the double is very possible if you're the dominant GT rider with the right qualities at the right time. 2011 and 2009 were perfect years. It's very hard to be good in both, Contador in 2011, and Valverde this year have shown you can be good in both, but your Tour level is gonna be lower than when you don't do the Giro. You can't peak twice, so it's highly determined by base level as well.

Right now it's impossible. There's 3 or 4 riders who can hit the Tour in absolute great shape if they peak correctly, then there's Sky, who will always have Froome ride the Tour. In a weaker field, I'm pretty sure Contador or Quintana could do it.