Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[rick james]

Re:

Hard decisions for Contador today. Follow Porte or stay with a flagging Henao?

Everyone knows you're actually going slower when slipping in behind an attacking rider so clearly there was a balance to be met here. He eventually showed class and grace in letting Porte win and at a deficit of 20 seconds in the span of a km too, despite a coordinated TV appearance of an intense effort in dispatching the never-won-a-stage-race-once-Henao.

Did you type that with a straight face, crazy comment..

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGP3p5eda7k

Some words from Berto after the stage (in English). He says he wasn't sure whether to go for the stage or the GC and acknowledges it might have been better to go with Porte to battle for the stage win.

I think he feels a lot of pressure to win something and repay his teammates and the team management for their confidence

Of course it would have been better if he could respond to the attack and stay with Porte, that would improve his chances drastically of winning the overall GC. Its not one way or the other

Then he shouldn't have been at the front when Porte attacked. That's just cycling 101. Ergo he wasn't racing against Porte, as I have said. The point isn't even whether or not he could have followed, which really doesn't matter, because it's moot. The point to the contrary is what tactic would have gained him the most advantage. Evidently he now feels perhaps it would have been more fortuitous to mark Porte, in which case he would not have been forcing the pace the moment his attack came. Had that played out then no discussions about whether or not he could have followed would have been necessary. As it was, they were irrelevant. At any rate, Porte was certainly flying. Too bad he lost 14 plus minutes during a previous stage (sic!), which rather made his climbing prowess of too little too late consequence.

 

[buchanan]

Re: Re:

Hard decisions for Contador today. Follow Porte or stay with a flagging Henao?

Everyone knows you're actually going slower when slipping in behind an attacking rider so clearly there was a balance to be met here. He eventually showed class and grace in letting Porte win and at a deficit of 20 seconds in the span of a km too, despite a coordinated TV appearance of an intense effort in dispatching the never-won-a-stage-race-once-Henao.

Did you type that with a straight face, crazy comment..

I was also amazed by that comment. hazaran seems to think that Contador gifted Porte the win today?!?! Absoulutely amazing comment !

 

[buchanan]

Of course he would have gone for the stage win if he had the strength. The confidence boost of a win, the time bonus on offer, etc. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just clueless about pro cycling. Why on earth would he just decide to hang back and let Porte go?! I cringe sometimes when I read the amateur comments hear about how Alberto was thinking this or that... therefore held back... didn't really want the stage win - or whatever else excuse....

 

[Matteo.]

To me sound like excuses: Should i stay or should i go? Eehehhe .... but we are used also to this

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Hard decisions for Contador today. Follow Porte or stay with a flagging Henao?

Everyone knows you're actually going slower when slipping in behind an attacking rider so clearly there was a balance to be met here. He eventually showed class and grace in letting Porte win and at a deficit of 20 seconds in the span of a km too, despite a coordinated TV appearance of an intense effort in dispatching the never-won-a-stage-race-once-Henao.

Did you type that with a straight face, crazy comment..

The guy is a big Froome fan so he's probably just mocking the Contador fans. His entire post screams trolling to me.

 

[buchanan]

Ok I see hazaran's comment is actually a sarcastic dig...Makes a bit more sense now

 

[Climber123]

I am confused. To me his performances in the TT and queen stage of PN 2017 was significantly better than the respective ones on PN 2016. Alberto is doing really good and is a shoe-in for a Tour podium. Froome is still favourite of course but if something happens to him? Federer won his 18th slam against all odds this year, never write off a champion.

 

[Climber123]

If he was 28 and performed exactly the same everyone would have tipped him as a favourite for the Tour no questions asked.

 

[dacooley]

Rather we should forget 2015 and 2016 seasons to tip him as the biggest favorite for the tour. it's not about being 28 or 34. I don't get critics / dispreasure about his yesterday's perfomance. Did you expect him to fly away from Porte and Henao 'easily and effortlessly' as you like? Sadly, it doesn't seem possible. As of today, Bertie is more of a diesel type climber who aims one time big peak for the Tour. This year I'm not even sure he'll be bombing in Tour of Basque Country as he got used to as the whole season's laid out with the only goal - coming all guns blazing for the Tour.

 

[Climber123]

Re:

Rather we should forget 2015 and 2016 seasons to tip him as the biggest favorite for the tour. it's not about being 28 or 34. I don't get critics / dispreasure about his yesterday's perfomance. Did you expect him to fly away from Porte and Henao 'easily and effortlessly' as you like? Sadly, it doesn't seem possible. As of today, Bertie is more of a diesel type climber who aims one time big peak for the Tour.

It was a measured effort which I quite liked. He should race like this on big mountain stages and attack on the medium mountain stages with his superior tactical acumen. And I suspect he will not lose much to Froome in the TT if he is in July shape.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Hard decisions for Contador today. Follow Porte or stay with a flagging Henao?

Everyone knows you're actually going slower when slipping in behind an attacking rider so clearly there was a balance to be met here. He eventually showed class and grace in letting Porte win and at a deficit of 20 seconds in the span of a km too, despite a coordinated TV appearance of an intense effort in dispatching the never-won-a-stage-race-once-Henao.

Did you type that with a straight face, crazy comment..

The guy is a big Froome fan so he's probably just mocking the Contador fans. His entire post screams trolling to me.

I think he knows exactly what he's saying !

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Hard decisions for Contador today. Follow Porte or stay with a flagging Henao?

Everyone knows you're actually going slower when slipping in behind an attacking rider so clearly there was a balance to be met here. He eventually showed class and grace in letting Porte win and at a deficit of 20 seconds in the span of a km too, despite a coordinated TV appearance of an intense effort in dispatching the never-won-a-stage-race-once-Henao.

Did you type that with a straight face, crazy comment..

Actually he writes better than most of the journalists on this website. Let him do his race satires.

 

[Red Rick]

Contador has always been a rider that typically doesn't drop to limit time losses, rather he goes all out till he bonks. It was also the way he'd ride agressively, big accelerations over and over again until the opponents either bonk or drop. Back in the glory days, this would work because he recovered from changes in pace super quickly and because it took less toll on him than on his opponents. Now he's at the point where he's often riding against climbers who are better at the whole stop starting thing, and he himself doesn't recover from changes in pace as well.

I think Contador's habit of attacking and stopping and following until breaking has reached the point of frequent self-sabotage. We can see in the MTT's of last year that he can still do amazing climbs of 12 to 15 minutes if rides a constant pace, but he breaks himself down trying to hang on to people or trying to drop people. The 10 minute power is still there mostly there, the 20s power isn't.

Considering tactics yesterday, it's very hard to guess how much Contador held back when he and Henao were alone. I don't think it's much. Porte was the strongest man yesterday.

I don't think this performance is comparable to the MTF of PN last year, because this climb is so much harder. That was a sh!t climb, and most of the attacks were at gradients of about 5%. Obviously you don't drop everyone there and obviously you don't win the sprint after attacking a million times.

 

[Climber123]

Re:

Contador has always been a rider that typically doesn't drop to limit time losses, rather he goes all out till he bonks. It was also the way he'd ride agressively, big accelerations over and over again until the opponents either bonk or drop. Back in the glory days, this would work because he recovered from changes in pace super quickly and because it took less toll on him than on his opponents. Now he's at the point where he's often riding against climbers who are better at the whole stop starting thing, and he himself doesn't recover from changes in pace as well.

I think Contador's habit of attacking and stopping and following until breaking has reached the point of frequent self-sabotage. We can see in the MTT's of last year that he can still do amazing climbs of 12 to 15 minutes if rides a constant pace, but he breaks himself down trying to hang on to people or trying to drop people. The 10 minute power is still there mostly there, the 20s power isn't.

Considering tactics yesterday, it's very hard to guess how much Contador held back when he and Henao were alone. I don't think it's much. Porte was the strongest man yesterday.

I don't think this performance is comparable to the MTF of PN last year, because this climb is so much harder. That was a **** climb, and most of the attacks were at gradients of about 5%. Obviously you don't drop everyone there and obviously you don't win the sprint after attacking a million times.

Top post. Alberto is still the best MTT rider in the world but he cannot break a peloton with repeated attacks anymore. If he uses a measured approach he may find himself pretty close anyway at the end.

 

[dacooley]

i woudn't count on the best tactical acumen too much if I were him. in recent years ac started making a lot of tactical mistakes, going too deep and eventually exploding himself after trying to go with quintana and froome. he clearly needs more composure. there's no shame in dropping and going tempo earlier.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Contador's relentless agression is often mistaken for tactical accumen. But then sometimes he finds the spot where nobody expects it, and he decides the outcome of a Grand Tour.

 

[LaFlorecita]

It's been obvious to me for a while that Berto needs things to go his way to win the Tour. Quintana racing the Giro prior to the Tour is a start. Berto needs to be lucky with Froome slightly off his best form or crashing (not saying I want him to crash). Berto has to avoid crashing and stupid time loss and stay as close to Froome as possible, waiting for a moment of weakness. If he can somehow work over Froome anything is possible. I wouldn't immediately rate Berto below Porte, Bardet, Chaves and a tired Quintana. He could definitely beat all of them if he encounters no issues.

As has been said above he needs to measure his efforts more. Of course we'd all like him to stick to Froome and Porte's wheel on the first MTF but it's not realistic. He can't afford to lose minutes on the first MTF again. Pacing himself he can limit his losses but I'm not sure he'll be able to change his attitude, he's a true racer. So I guess we'll see one or two spectacular implosions from him in July hopefully they'll happen with the finish inside so the damage will be minimal

What I'm trying to say is, he isn't without chance. Only Froome is without a doubt stronger than him, so he needs to race smartly, bide his time and hope for the best.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I think Contador's relentless agression is often mistaken for tactical accumen. But then sometimes he finds the spot where nobody expects it, and he decides the outcome of a Grand Tour.

As you say, I don't think he's a tactical mastermind. He just has big balls and tries tactics that others don't dare to try.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

It's been obvious to me for a while that Berto needs things to go his way to win the Tour. Quintana racing the Giro prior to the Tour is a start. Berto needs to be lucky with Froome slightly off his best form or crashing (not saying I want him to crash). Berto has to avoid crashing and stupid time loss and stay as close to Froome as possible, waiting for a moment of weakness. If he can somehow work over Froome anything is possible. I wouldn't immediately rate Berto below Porte, Bardet, Chaves and a tired Quintana. He could definitely beat all of them if he encounters no issues.

As has been said above he needs to measure his efforts more. Of course we'd all like him to stick to Froome and Porte's wheel on the first MTF but it's not realistic. He can't afford to lose minutes on the first MTF again. Pacing himself he can limit his losses but I'm not sure he'll be able to change his attitude, he's a true racer. So I guess we'll see one or two spectacular implosions from him in July hopefully they'll happen with the finish inside so the damage will be minimal

What I'm trying to say is, he isn't without chance. Only Froome is without a doubt stronger than him, so he needs to race smartly, bide his time and hope for the best.

In my opinion a good contador is capable of handling a fresh nairo, only because contador is a better time trialist and nairo doesn't have the kick to drop contador like froome has. In my opinion, contador doesn't have a chance against a fresh froome/sky unless a crash or a puncture in a critical moment ruin froome's chances

 

[Red Rick]

Quintana packs quite some kick. He has for a while.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Quintana packs quite some kick. He has for a while.

Nothing compared to froome's kick. He can't drop contador with his kick but he can mantain a high pace that is deadly to almost everyone (contador included)

 

[dacooley]

all down to watts in the legs and ability to work uphill as long as possible at uttermost effort, having a kick is secondary imo. porte has no spark at all but it often doesn't prevent him from catching froome. valverde spurts like no one else, but is still no match of contador, quintana or froome in the mountains.

 

[Red Rick]

True, kick is more important as margins get smaller

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I think Alberto Contador is the best rider of his generation and wonderful to have in any race as he lights it up ...His 2009 Tour was the time I came back to cycling ...a definite super star

But people on here got to start accepting that he is not the rider he used to be ...but he can light a race up but I cannot now see him outclimbing Froome or Quintana. There are even a few other riders he will not out climb in every race

For a while now ...maybe since 2015 he has looked tired and drawn . He looks always too thin and also like he is putting himself under too much pressure to be that thin to compete against Froome ,. Also under pressure to win at any cost and also even more pressure to entertain and attack as his supporters demand

I would prefer to have him racing than not . I don't expect him to win nor do I slag him off if he doesn;t (as some on here do) I dont get angry or upset if he doesn't beat his rivals ...nor attack or name call those rivals if they are better

There is no dishonour in losing ...it happens to everyone
And none in getting old

Stop with the over the top emotional roller coaster in relation to Contador . Just let it be and watch him race
I think this will be his last year

This is the best post I've seen for a while. I'm not a fan of Contador but I quite like his riding. It's some of his fans on here who believe he is the only rider who is allowed to win and come up with all sorts of excuses if he doesn't, which put people off liking him. Yesterdays race I believe he did the right thing in going for GC, I don't think he could have kept up with Porte so let him go. There's always PV for his first win in Trek colours and I also believe he needs to impress there to give his Tour rivals something to think about in July.

I believe there was a moment of indecision on Contador's part in following Porte's second attack. He had responded to Porte's first attack and maybe waited to see if anyone else would immediately respond as Porte was clever enough to wait till Contador was on the front of the group for a time when he launched his pivotal move. It's speculation as to if he could or couldn't stick with Porte had he jumped on his wheel.