Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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Re: Re:

portugal11 said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
Last year, henao was dragging thomas all over the place. This thomas was the one who "only" lost 17 seconds to quintana in a mountain stage
:confused:
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
portugal11 said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
Last year, henao was dragging thomas all over the place. This thomas was the one who "only" lost 17 seconds to quintana in a mountain stage
:confused:
seemingly the talk is about today's T-A stage.
 
Re:

DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
No, to the bold, that's a bad reading of the situation. Porte was out of GC contention, could thus wait to place his attack right when there was a lull (which, if I remember correctly, was soon after a Contador accelleration) in the GC battle. Not being threatening to their interests, Porte had a longer leash. Now, it's true, Porte was very strong, but if he were racing for GC his task would have been much more difficult.

Porte is among the best climbers in the world, another super transformation to be sure, but he has a head issue that so far has prevented him from not cracking, or crashing to arrive at the very top.
 
Re: Re:

rhubroma said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
No, to the bold, that's a bad reading of the situation. Porte was out of GC contention, could thus wait to place his attack right when there was a lull (which, if I remember correctly, was soon after a Contador accelleration) in the GC battle. Not being threatening to their interests, Porte had a longer leash. Now, it's true, Porte was very strong, but if he were racing for GC his task would have been much more difficult.

Porte is among the best climbers in the world, another super transformation to be sure, but he has a head issue that so far has prevented him from not cracking, or crashing to arrive at the very top.
Please stop pretending Contador could follow Porte. Its guys like you who give the Contador-fans a bad rep at times.
 
Re: Re:

rhubroma said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
No, to the bold, that's a bad reading of the situation. Porte was out of GC contention, could thus wait to place his attack right when there was a lull (which, if I remember correctly, was soon after a Contador accelleration) in the GC battle. Not being threatening to their interests, Porte had a longer leash. Now, it's true, Porte was very strong, but if he were racing for GC his task would have been much more difficult.

Porte is among the best climbers in the world, another super transformation to be sure, but he has a head issue that so far has prevented him from not cracking, or crashing to arrive at the very top.
I think this is pure bollocks. We all know Alberto is only interested about winning. By following Porte's attack he would have a) increase his chances of winning the stage and b) increase his chances of winning the GC. Why not use rabbit like Porte to bolster your winning chances if you have it in your legs?
 
Re: Re:

bambino said:
rhubroma said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
No, to the bold, that's a bad reading of the situation. Porte was out of GC contention, could thus wait to place his attack right when there was a lull (which, if I remember correctly, was soon after a Contador accelleration) in the GC battle. Not being threatening to their interests, Porte had a longer leash. Now, it's true, Porte was very strong, but if he were racing for GC his task would have been much more difficult.

Porte is among the best climbers in the world, another super transformation to be sure, but he has a head issue that so far has prevented him from not cracking, or crashing to arrive at the very top.
I think this is pure bollocks. We all know Alberto is only interested about winning. By following Porte's attack he would have a) increase his chances of winning the stage and b) increase his chances of winning the GC. Why not use rabbit like Porte to bolster your winning chances if you have it in your legs?
Of course, its absolutely bullocks as is everything else he posts in this thread.
 
Re:

Cance > TheRest said:
That was pretty good. Perhaps he should have tried to drop Henao a little earlier, but it was good enough. Great to see that he could take back 10 seconds on Richie in the last k. Winning was always going to be hard, but now it does not look impossible. Pantano is a better domestique than the SKY-guys, but will it be enough to isolate Henao on the easier climbs around Nice?
I think it was a bit *meh*. Couldn't follow Porte's (very strong though) attack and got mere 10s for Dan Martin and Sky's #3-4 climber in climb that seemingly suited him well. But of course 2nd palce is very good and there is still time for TDF. But indeed without real monster peak I don't see currently him fighting anything more than lovest spot in TDF podium.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
rhubroma said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
No, to the bold, that's a bad reading of the situation. Porte was out of GC contention, could thus wait to place his attack right when there was a lull (which, if I remember correctly, was soon after a Contador accelleration) in the GC battle. Not being threatening to their interests, Porte had a longer leash. Now, it's true, Porte was very strong, but if he were racing for GC his task would have been much more difficult.

Porte is among the best climbers in the world, another super transformation to be sure, but he has a head issue that so far has prevented him from not cracking, or crashing to arrive at the very top.
Please stop pretending Contador could follow Porte. Its guys like you who give the Contador-fans a bad rep at times.
Indeed, there is absolutely no reason why Contador would not have followed Porte if he was able to. It would have helped him to gain time on Henao and would have had chance at the stage win. No sense at all to let him go.

There is an argument that Porte should be doing better having thrown in the towel on tough stages earlier in the week. Contador was certainly the best of those fighting for GC - but he wasn't the strongest on the climb.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
rhubroma said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
No, to the bold, that's a bad reading of the situation. Porte was out of GC contention, could thus wait to place his attack right when there was a lull (which, if I remember correctly, was soon after a Contador accelleration) in the GC battle. Not being threatening to their interests, Porte had a longer leash. Now, it's true, Porte was very strong, but if he were racing for GC his task would have been much more difficult.

Porte is among the best climbers in the world, another super transformation to be sure, but he has a head issue that so far has prevented him from not cracking, or crashing to arrive at the very top.
Please stop pretending Contador could follow Porte. Its guys like you who give the Contador-fans a bad rep at times.
And please stop playing the race expert, when you obviously can't read a race. Porte needed to drop everyone like that while in GC contention to draw the conclusion that was made, which was consequently unverifiable. That's what was addressed, not that Contador could follow Porte. At any rate, had Porte been in GC he would have been the point guy (along with Contador), which changes everything.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Valv.Piti said:
rhubroma said:
DFA123 said:
Not bad today. It's difficult to read too much into it I guess. Dropping riders like Henao and Martin is kind of to be expected on a climb like this for someone with ambitions of winning a GT and he couldn't stay with Porte, who's probably the only other near-elite GC climber in the race.

On the other hand, towards the end of a tough race it was encouraging to see a bit more spring in the legs towards the end of a stage. And he kept the attack going rather than fading towards the line. And, moved himself onto the podium which is better than not being there. Another positive was Pantano who looked as good as his promise last year suggested.
No, to the bold, that's a bad reading of the situation. Porte was out of GC contention, could thus wait to place his attack right when there was a lull (which, if I remember correctly, was soon after a Contador accelleration) in the GC battle. Not being threatening to their interests, Porte had a longer leash. Now, it's true, Porte was very strong, but if he were racing for GC his task would have been much more difficult.

Porte is among the best climbers in the world, another super transformation to be sure, but he has a head issue that so far has prevented him from not cracking, or crashing to arrive at the very top.
Please stop pretending Contador could follow Porte. Its guys like you who give the Contador-fans a bad rep at times.
Indeed, there is absolutely no reason why Contador would not have followed Porte if he was able to. It would have helped him to gain time on Henao and would have had chance at the stage win. No sense at all to let him go.

There is an argument that Porte should be doing better having thrown in the towel on tough stages earlier in the week. Contador was certainly the best of those fighting for GC - but he wasn't the strongest on the climb.
Watch the video again. Contador went. Porte wasn't on his radar. Porte could wait and go with no one really trying to follow. At which point, the gap goes out as it did. The tactics from behind had other concerns. Point is with Porte in GC his team works differently, expends more energy and above all Porte has a different relationship to the others, who thus don't risk being too tired when he goes. The battle was between Henao, Contador and Martin, with Porte in the position of lethal spoiler.
 
I think its you who is unable to read a race situation. I can't see why Contador wouldn't follow Porte if he was able to, effectively using him as a leadout and maybe winning the stage, creating space between himself and Henao to WIN THE RACE instead trying to drop Henao from his wheel, grinding it out (which he succeeded with at 500 meters to go or so, but way too late obviously).

Porte was extremely impressive. No shame in not being able to follow, but it sickens me how people like you need to write uninformed and extremely biased posts like the one above to trick yourself into thinking that he hasn't missed a beat.
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
I think its you who is unable to read a race situation. I can't see why Contador wouldn't follow Porte if he was able to, effectively using him as a leadout and maybe winning the stage, creating space between himself and Henao to WIN THE RACE instead trying to drop Henao from his wheel, grinding it out (which he succeeded with at 500 meters to go or so, but way too late obviously).

Porte was extremely impressive. No shame in not being able to follow, but it sickens me how people like you need to write uninformed and extremely biased posts like the one above to trick yourself into thinking that he hasn't missed a beat.
What don't you understand? Contador wasn't racing against Porte and, after an accelleration (which by the way didn't drop Henao), he marked Henao while Porte pushed away.

My thoughts were Contador should have marked Porte and taken advantage of his superior climbing ability to let Porte drop Henao, Martin. But that wasn't his tactic. Instead of feeling sick over me, why don't you learn how to read a race?
 
it's the thread dedicated the greatest bike racer of the last decade. for sure he has pampered the fans so much for years that they prefer sticking to the level of excuses and explanations instead of being reasonable. nothing criminal here.
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.
How can you tell if he let him go or wasn't able to follow? If he did let him go, then it looks like a major tactical blunder. Cost him the chance of an elusive stage win and lost him the opportunity to put Henao under pressure at a distance from the finish where it could have actually made a difference for the GC.

I don't believe Contador would have made such a tactical error - he must have been on the limit and was either afraid that if he followed Porte he would have blown up, or just couldn't respond to the attack at that moment.
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.
I did, and I can't tell whether he tried as much as he was able or not.

Pretty darn stupid tactic from Berto not following though if he had it given the one who took off was in paper the other of 2 climbers in the field that in paper could make real difference against secondary folks.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
LaFlorecita said:
None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.
How can you tell if he let him go or wasn't able to follow? If he did let him go, then it looks like a major tactical blunder. Cost him the chance of an elusive stage win and lost him the opportunity to put Henao under pressure at a distance from the finish where it could have actually made a difference for the GC.

I don't believe Contador would have made such a tactical error - he must have been on the limit and was either afraid that if he followed Porte he would have blown up, or just couldn't respond to the attack at that moment.
We know Contador always tries to follow attacks, in fact he often blows up in the end because of that attitude. If he indeed decided Porte's attack was too tough to follow, then I welcome this change in tactics, but I doubt it. Most likely, he knew he was racing others and didn't want to possibly blow up trying to chase down Porte. Maybe he wanted to see if Henao would close the gap. Either way, these situations are never straightforward, there's always some tactical poker play involved. You don't chase down a non-threat while several of your close rivals are on your wheel, unless you're sure you won't crack and will drop your rivals. Otherwise there's no point bothering.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
DFA123 said:
LaFlorecita said:
None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.
How can you tell if he let him go or wasn't able to follow? If he did let him go, then it looks like a major tactical blunder. Cost him the chance of an elusive stage win and lost him the opportunity to put Henao under pressure at a distance from the finish where it could have actually made a difference for the GC.

I don't believe Contador would have made such a tactical error - he must have been on the limit and was either afraid that if he followed Porte he would have blown up, or just couldn't respond to the attack at that moment.
We know Contador always tries to follow attacks, in fact he often blows up in the end because of that attitude. If he indeed decided Porte's attack was too tough to follow, then I welcome this change in tactics, but I doubt it. Most likely, he knew he was racing others and didn't want to possibly blow up trying to chase down Porte. Maybe he wanted to see if Henao would close the gap. Either way, these situations are never straightforward, there's always some tactical poker play involved. You don't chase down a non-threat while several of your close rivals are on your wheel, unless you're sure you won't crack and will drop your rivals. Otherwise there's no point bothering.
I don't think we are debating whether he was able to respond to Porte's attack in a vacuum per se, but whether he could keep up with Porte - in other words, who was the strongest climber. Thats the thing Im debating, at least.

Because, whether you want to admit it or not, Porte WAS the best climber today. It was pretty obvious he had one more gear than everyone else.
 
Re: Re:

bambino said:
Cance > TheRest said:
That was pretty good. Perhaps he should have tried to drop Henao a little earlier, but it was good enough. Great to see that he could take back 10 seconds on Richie in the last k. Winning was always going to be hard, but now it does not look impossible. Pantano is a better domestique than the SKY-guys, but will it be enough to isolate Henao on the easier climbs around Nice?
I think it was a bit *meh*. Couldn't follow Porte's (very strong though) attack and got mere 10s for Dan Martin and Sky's #3-4 climber in climb that seemingly suited him well. But of course 2nd palce is very good and there is still time for TDF. But indeed without real monster peak I don't see currently him fighting anything more than lovest spot in TDF podium.
Well he didn't follow Porte. Ofcourse he would have conceded time to him even if he'd tried to go with him instantly. Afterall he and Henao were both unable to close down the gap he opened up. Anyway, I don't think it's completely bullocks to say that Porte had a greater degree of freedom today. He had. But I agree, that he was also the strongest today, so in the end he would probably have won one way or another.
 

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