Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Also, Contador was once very good descending but I am not sure if he's lost some descending confidence with his crashes in recent years?

Without a doubt. Recently we've seen him descend like an old lady. Maybe he'll be more confident at this race but not sure.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I expected Contador to lose 10-20 seconds to Froome and Porte today so not worried at all. 2015 Contador would probably have finished 20-30 seconds back here.

There's a strong chance of rain on the Mont du Chat, and we all know how much Contador improves in the rain, even when he's in poor form - In 2015 he went from losing nearly three minutes to Froome up Saint-Martin to looking almost as good as him on the rainy Plateau de Bielle a few days later.

you're not wrong about the rain but the descent might be an issue in that case - I expect Froome to push it

 

[lenric]

Re:

Some one up thread said:

No matter how much he wants to win and be on form, he's no longer a factor.

Right,
like he wasn't a factor in preventing Dawg take the Vuelta.
Even a diminished Alberto can be
an unforeseen factor.
Hurray for that.

Don't be emotional. Read it again and you'll figure that I said that Contador's no longer a factor when it comes to winning GTs (which doesn't mean he can't win one). Whether that means he can help others winning, or not, doesn't make him a factor, otherwise Froome was a factor in 2012 and so were 2 or 3 Sky riders over the last years.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Also, Contador was once very good descending but I am not sure if he's lost some descending confidence with his crashes in recent years?

He was also relatively good when it comes to positioning.
That's the effect of falling so many times. It's hard not to lose confidence and, to be fair, no one can blame in. I'd be scared like hell if I fell off my bike like he fell in 2014's Tour.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Also, Contador was once very good descending but I am not sure if he's lost some descending confidence with his crashes in recent years?

Without a doubt. Recently we've seen him descend like an old lady. Maybe he'll be more confident at this race but not sure.

I don't think it's a matter of ability. From my observations, as some riders mature they become less inclined to take the risks of their youth. That belief of invincibility is lost and they seemingly begin thinking about their future after the sport. Sammy Sanchez used to descend like an eagle zeroing in on a prey in the prairie when he was younger. As he matured he seemed to be lesser astute at it but likely just not willing to risk injuring or killing himself. Tom Boonen, after his serious crash, was never the sprinter he was before and admitted as much that he wasn't the daredevil that he was prior. The fear of God will do that to you.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Some one up thread said:

No matter how much he wants to win and be on form, he's no longer a factor.

Right,
like he wasn't a factor in preventing Dawg take the Vuelta.
Even a diminished Alberto can be
an unforeseen factor.
Hurray for that.

Don't be emotional. Read it again and you'll figure that I said that Contador's no longer a factor when it comes to winning GTs (which doesn't mean he can't win one).

Whether that means he can help others winning, or not, doesn't make him a factor, otherwise Froome was a factor in 2012 and so were 2 or 3 Sky riders over the last years.

factor
[fak-ter]
noun
one of the elements contributing to a particular result or situation

 

[Red Rick]

Playing chess with pidgeons again?

 

[lenric]

LF, I wasn't clear enough probably. When I wrote "factor" I was alluding to being capable of winning the GC.

 

[Leinster]

What happened with Pantano today? I would've expected Contador to be in his wheel for most of today, especially on the Planche.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

Playing chess with pidgeons again?

chess is for us simple minds. He plays 5 dimensional mahjong

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

He looked really strong, not sure why everyone is worried.

even he himself said he did not feel good, that is worrying

two positive notes - he limited his losses to just 6 seconds and he has seemingly learned how to pace himself

More worrying would be if he said that he felt great, that the Tour is long, that 10-20 sec is nothing, etc. I think he's fine, and I think he'll be even more fine

Your posts give me hope! I don't know if that is a good or bad thing.

This! Getting up my hopes to have them dashed wouldn't be desirable. However he did close a Big Gap in 30 seconds upon rewatching. The 'needing air' comment sure isn't encouraging though. I will try to remain calm .

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Some one up thread said:

No matter how much he wants to win and be on form, he's no longer a factor.

Right,
like he wasn't a factor in preventing Dawg take the Vuelta.
Even a diminished Alberto can be
an unforeseen factor.
Hurray for that.

Don't be emotional. Read it again and you'll figure that I said that Contador's no longer a factor when it comes to winning GTs (which doesn't mean he can't win one). Whether that means he can help others winning, or not, doesn't make him a factor, otherwise Froome was a factor in 2012 and so were 2 or 3 Sky riders over the last years.

How can one no longer be a factor in grand tours but then you imply that he still could potentially win one? I don't think I'm understanding you either.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

He looked really strong, not sure why everyone is worried.

even he himself said he did not feel good, that is worrying

two positive notes - he limited his losses to just 6 seconds and he has seemingly learned how to pace himself

More worrying would be if he said that he felt great, that the Tour is long, that 10-20 sec is nothing, etc. I think he's fine, and I think he'll be even more fine

Your posts give me hope! I don't know if that is a good or bad thing.

This! Getting up my hopes to have them dashed wouldn't be desirable. However he did close a Big Gap in 30 seconds upon rewatching. The 'needing air' comment sure isn't encouraging though. I will try to remain calm .

To add to the giving of hope, the fact that he didn't push himself into the red, recognized that the possibility of that was near, and made the split-second adjustment, has to be a plus. He lost 6 seconds which is better than 20 or 30!

 

[rune1107]

Just watched an interview with Trek DS Kim Andersen. When asked about if AC could win the tour he hesitated and then responded: "When we look at the top 10 GC it's very tough competition. Of course we are hoping he will be up there with the best but we will have to wait and see. He had a tough day today, but it is the first MT stage of the Tour and those will always be difficult". Definitely not encouraging if his own DS lack confidence in him winning the Tour.

 

[Carols]

Re:

Just watched an interview with Trek DS Kim Andersen. When asked about if AC could win the tour he hesitated and then responded: "When we look at the top 10 GC it's very tough competition. Of course we are hoping he will be up there with the best but we will have to wait and see. He had a tough day today, but it is the first MT stage of the Tour and those will always be difficult". Definitely not encouraging if his own DS lack confidence in him winning the Tour.

Well that is sobering....I'll keep my expectations low.

 

[Red Rick]

Falsely downplaying expectations?

Dis gunna b good

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

Just watched an interview with Trek DS Kim Andersen. When asked about if AC could win the tour he hesitated and then responded: "When we look at the top 10 GC it's very tough competition. Of course we are hoping he will be up there with the best but we will have to wait and see. He had a tough day today, but it is the first MT stage of the Tour and those will always be difficult". Definitely not encouraging if his own DS lack confidence in him winning the Tour.

His words may also reflect the lack of confidence in the whole squads ability to keep it together over the whole Tour. Awful display from Trek today and i dare say even worse then Tinkoff last year.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Just watched an interview with Trek DS Kim Andersen. When asked about if AC could win the tour he hesitated and then responded: "When we look at the top 10 GC it's very tough competition. Of course we are hoping he will be up there with the best but we will have to wait and see. He had a tough day today, but it is the first MT stage of the Tour and those will always be difficult". Definitely not encouraging if his own DS lack confidence in him winning the Tour.

His words may also reflect the lack of confidence in the whole team abilities to keep it together over the whole Tour as well. Shockingly bad display from Trek today and i dare say even worse then Tinkoff last year.

Indeed, totally agree.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Just saw an interview with De Jongh.
Mollema and Pantano are supposed to get better during the race, he hopes they'll be up there on stage 9. For today, they only had to deliver Alberto to the foot of the climb.
With regards to Alberto, he says Alberto had a difficult day but because he knew the finish he decided to pace himself to catch some breath and then he closed the gap, but perhaps he was a bit too enthusiastic because he went straight to the front.
Overall I got the impression he was pleased with the performance although it could have been better. Obviously (also referring to Andersen interview) they knew Alberto wouldn't be the most likely winner, even Alberto said it himself. So I think they can be quite pleased.

 

[rune1107]

Re: Re:

Just watched an interview with Trek DS Kim Andersen. When asked about if AC could win the tour he hesitated and then responded: "When we look at the top 10 GC it's very tough competition. Of course we are hoping he will be up there with the best but we will have to wait and see. He had a tough day today, but it is the first MT stage of the Tour and those will always be difficult". Definitely not encouraging if his own DS lack confidence in him winning the Tour.

His words may also reflect the lack of confidence in the whole squads ability to keep it together over the whole Tour. Awful display from Trek today and i dare say even worse then Tinkoff last year.

Good point. Although today the team didn't matter that much, but it will be key in the next 2 weeks. I actually had a lot of confidence in Trek before the TDF, and was quite sure that it wouldn't be because of the team, if Alberto had a bad 3 weeks. But after today, i'm not so sure about that anymore. Still early so we can't say for sure. From the same segment, the host asked Kim Andersen how he viewed Bauke Mollema's performance so far, and he was confident that he will improve as we get deeper into the race.

 

[rune1107]

Re:

Just saw an interview with De Jongh.
Mollema and Pantano are supposed to get better during the race, he hopes they'll be up there on stage 9. For today, they only had to deliver Alberto to the foot of the climb.
With regards to Alberto, he says Alberto had a difficult day but because he knew the finish he decided to pace himself to catch some breath and then he closed the gap, but perhaps he was a bit too enthusiastic because he went straight to the front.
Overall I got the impression he was pleased with the performance although it could have been better. Obviously (also referring to Andersen interview) they knew Alberto wouldn't be the most likely winner, even Alberto said it himself. So I think they can be quite pleased.

Yeah okay. I like that he points out that Alberto went straight to the front after. I still think he could have been s.t. with Froome and co. if it wasn't for that.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

He looked really strong, not sure why everyone is worried.

even he himself said he did not feel good, that is worrying

two positive notes - he limited his losses to just 6 seconds and he has seemingly learned how to pace himself

More worrying would be if he said that he felt great, that the Tour is long, that 10-20 sec is nothing, etc. I think he's fine, and I think he'll be even more fine

Yeah if he didn't feel good then that suggests there is more to come.

Why do you think he will feel good, and get air, when Aru, Porte, and Froome next time put the hammer down?

Because bad days exist...

 

[Publicus]

Re:

Well, if anything, the way he closed the gap to the group ahead was impressive. He did lose a couple of seconds in the last ramp, which I expected. But the good thing is, that neither Froome nor Porte looked brilliant. I expected Porte to do what Aru did today. Porte seems to have kept the Dauphine shape. All the others have raised it... The Tour might be interesting after all!

I'm partly through today's comments and this so far is close to my thinking. I don't think either Porte or Froome will improve from here--I think Porte's peak form was the Dauphine and I think Froome is having an off year. If Contador's recovery is still as good as it has been in the past, there's still a chance for podium and possibly the win. Call me naive or a fanboy, but I took nothing but positives away from today

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

Also, Contador was once very good descending but I am not sure if he's lost some descending confidence with his crashes in recent years?

Without a doubt. Recently we've seen him descend like an old lady. Maybe he'll be more confident at this race but not sure.

I don't think it's a matter of ability. From my observations, as some riders mature they become less inclined to take the risks of their youth. That belief of invincibility is lost and they seemingly begin thinking about their future after the sport. Sammy Sanchez used to descend like an eagle zeroing in on a prey in the prairie when he was younger. As he matured he seemed to be lesser astute at it but likely just not willing to risk injuring or killing himself. Tom Boonen, after his serious crash, was never the sprinter he was before and admitted as much that he wasn't the daredevil that he was prior. The fear of God will do that to you.

This reminds of the Belly putter in golf. When golfers get the yips usually in their old age and then start using belly putters. Notice no one wins gold majors with the belly putter. AC has less confidence than in his youth. He has now began to operate like a diesel engine rather than a Porsche. He rides at his own gradual pace rather than the quick bursts which he used to do before like a Porsche and it would aggravate others. Now such bursts of speed aggravate him. He has to move slow and steady, like a diesel engine, like the use of the belly putter. The problem though is that Porsche engines like Froome, Porte, Aru, Martin will race away 1 minute ahead while the diesel engine fires up.

I think why some AC fans cry retire is that he used to be a Porsche, his putter was hot! now we have to watch him use a belly putter? the diesel steady engine approach...its painful

 

[Chomsky]

I am not sure why the doom and gloom. Contadors 8th place finish was his best finish on a mountain stage with a cat 2 mountain or higher at the Tour since his two seventh place finishes in 2013. If he finished 2 places higher it would have been his best mountain finish since 2009.

Who would have expected him to get 8th place and lose less than a minute to Froome. Losing only a few seconds was inconceivable.

This tour is made for Contador. There are only 3 stages that might make a difference left. Stages 9, 18, 20. Contador might not be normally be a competitive rider at the Tour but he is generally stronger the third week and he has gotten better at ITTs. So he has a chance which is much better than anyone would have expected before today.