Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

1 MTF and a loss of half a dozen seconds and this thread goes nuclear

 

[gregrowlerson]

Not quite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMNDkoWjpc

now I'm sad. He wasn't even breathing

Alas those days are gone. No grimace, not even a deep breath, rides away.....

He is a Great Champion in decline, age brings all of them down. I am just happy to have seen the Legend that is Alberto Contador. You all can disagree but I've followed this sport for 50+ years and he is one of the Best to ever throw his leg over a bike in those 50 years.

Hopefully he has enough left to give us a show, if not his legacy is not diminished. His star has dimmed but the Glory of 2007-2015 will always be with us. I have it all on dvd .

Still epic viewing

I would also love to get a DVD of Paris-Nice 2016 and 2017, the final stages; such awesome racing there from Contador.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

Well, if anything, the way he closed the gap to the group ahead was impressive. He did lose a couple of seconds in the last ramp, which I expected. But the good thing is, that neither Froome nor Porte looked brilliant. I expected Porte to do what Aru did today. Porte seems to have kept the Dauphine shape. All the others have raised it... The Tour might be interesting after all!

I'm partly through today's comments and this so far is close to my thinking. I don't think either Porte or Froome will improve from here--I think Porte's peak form was the Dauphine and I think Froome is having an off year. If Contador's recovery is still as good as it has been in the past, there's still a chance for podium and possibly the win. Call me naive or a fanboy, but I took nothing but positives away from today

This and this.

If Alberto was struggling then he would have been looking for other wheels when he was dropped by Froome's attack. Instead he set about getting into his own strong rhythm and dragging himself and the other dropped riders back up to the front group, who were still racing hard (Martin and Porte pushing the pace after Froome stopped attacking). Well, they weren't exactly doing track stands.

He is building his form from further back than Froome and Porte from the Dauphne, and who knows if Aru can last the three weeks as he may not have been able to do sufficient mileage due to early season injury. This Tour is wide open.

And I am just excited that this is the first Tour since 2010 (maybe 2011) that Alberto has got through the first proper MTF with form that is close to that of his rivals, and he is only seconds away on GC.

 

[benzwire]

If today was a bad day for Contador, I'll take it. I do think he did a respectable ride, I was actually expecting worse. I don't think that climb favored his current riding style, but in the past I don't think it would have been a problem at all. I bet we'll see an improvement from him and Quintana. I would still put his chances above Dan Martin and even Quintana at this point. It will take something special, however, to knock off Froome, Porte, and Aru.

Personally, I'm a fan of Alberto. I don't think he has the strength he once had, but his desire and spirit are as strong as ever. If he totally flops in this Tour, I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't have any less respect for the man. He brings a fighting spirit and the courage to risk all for victory. He will be remembered for that long after he retires. That's why he has this huge thread and fans worldwide. I want him to do well and hopefully that means a stage victory or a podium spot. If neither happens, that's ok too. I just get a kick out of him riding in the race. Every great rider eventually has his downturn. That's life. That said, give them hell Alberto!

 

[Angliru]

If today was a bad day for Contador, I'll take it. I do think he did a respectable ride, I was actually expecting worse. I don't think that climb favored his current riding style, but in the past I don't think it would have been a problem at all. I bet we'll see an improvement from him and Quintana. I would still put his chances above Dan Martin and even Quintana at this point. It will take something special, however, to knock off Froome, Porte, and Aru.

Personally, I'm a fan of Alberto. I don't think he has the strength he once had, but his desire and spirit are as strong as ever. If he totally flops in this Tour, I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't have any less respect for the man. He brings a fighting spirit and the courage to risk all for victory. He will be remembered for that long after he retires. That's why he has this huge thread and fans worldwide. I want him to do well and hopefully that means a stage victory or a podium spot. If neither happens, that's ok too. I just get a kick out of him riding in the race. Every great rider eventually has his downturn. That's life. That said, give them hell Alberto!

My sentiments exactly.

 

[ad9898]

I was indifferent initially after Contador's display yesterday but now I'm a little more confident. His build up to the tour is markedly different than previous years and I think that was reflected yesterday, he didn't get dropped initially he paced (too conservatively in my opinion). If he was dropped he wouldn't have been able to surge back up a few hundred metres later.

My view is he's a little uncooked coming into this tour which is totally different to previous years and I'm sure he will improve as we go through the next week or so. Froome I feel won't get better from now and Porte I feel will start to drift more as his peak wanes. Aru is the dark horse here as I nor anyone else was probably expecting that yesterday. However Aru is famed for having really good days and awful ones (Mortirolo in the Giro 2015 !)....so I'm not backing him as an outright contender just yet. All in all I think Contador is up there with the others, six seconds yesterday is unlikely to indicative of the rest of his Tour....and that's not taking into account his tactical mind which is much better than the other favourites

Let's be optimistic, at least for now

 

[GJB123]

Re: Re:

Also, Contador was once very good descending but I am not sure if he's lost some descending confidence with his crashes in recent years?

Without a doubt. Recently we've seen him descend like an old lady. Maybe he'll be more confident at this race but not sure.

I don't think it's a matter of ability. From my observations, as some riders mature they become less inclined to take the risks of their youth. That belief of invincibility is lost and they seemingly begin thinking about their future after the sport. Sammy Sanchez used to descend like an eagle zeroing in on a prey in the prairie when he was younger. As he matured he seemed to be lesser astute at it but likely just not willing to risk injuring or killing himself. Tom Boonen, after his serious crash, was never the sprinter he was before and admitted as much that he wasn't the daredevil that he was prior. The fear of God will do that to you.

This reminds of the Belly putter in golf. When golfers get the yips usually in their old age and then start using belly putters. Notice no one wins gold majors with the belly putter. AC has less confidence than in his youth. He has now began to operate like a diesel engine rather than a Porsche. He rides at his own gradual pace rather than the quick bursts which he used to do before like a Porsche and it would aggravate others. Now such bursts of speed aggravate him. He has to move slow and steady, like a diesel engine, like the use of the belly putter. The problem though is that Porsche engines like Froome, Porte, Aru, Martin will race away 1 minute ahead while the diesel engine fires up.

I think why some AC fans cry retire is that he used to be a Porsche, his putter was hot! now we have to watch him use a belly putter? the diesel steady engine approach...its painful

Though I am not a big fan of diesels, one has to state the obvious that Audi managed to win more than the odd Le Mans 24h using ... diesels. So diesel isn't all bad, it just takes some adjusting and getting used to that AC is now more of diesel than a Porsche.

 

[markene2]

Why the pessimism? I expected him to lose at least 30 seconds, he actually paced himself really well. He will animate the race im sure of it!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Why the pessimism? I expected him to lose at least 30 seconds, he actually paced himself really well. He will animate the race im sure of it!

you know the diehard fans don't just want to see him 'animate the race'

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Well, if anything, the way he closed the gap to the group ahead was impressive. He did lose a couple of seconds in the last ramp, which I expected. But the good thing is, that neither Froome nor Porte looked brilliant. I expected Porte to do what Aru did today. Porte seems to have kept the Dauphine shape. All the others have raised it... The Tour might be interesting after all!

I'm partly through today's comments and this so far is close to my thinking. I don't think either Porte or Froome will improve from here--I think Porte's peak form was the Dauphine and I think Froome is having an off year. If Contador's recovery is still as good as it has been in the past, there's still a chance for podium and possibly the win. Call me naive or a fanboy, but I took nothing but positives away from today

Agree on Porte, but not really on Froome. I think Froome ia going to improve significantly during the race. He said himself he feels fresher than previous years (less competitions) though missing the absolute peak still which he hopes to come out in week 3.

Berto seems to have very good form for high tempo in lower (4-8%) gradients, but seems to still miss the absolute power when the road and competiton really kicks. Still trying to tackle all the way with huge gears?

6 sec to Froome/Porte is nothing, but I think the podium speed in this race is the performance Aru showed yesterday, to win the race one has to clearly beat that level in the next 2 weeks.

 

[dacooley]

the issue might be contador' recovery is still good but this recovery based on lower physical level than it used to be.

 

[markene2]

Re: Re:

Why the pessimism? I expected him to lose at least 30 seconds, he actually paced himself really well. He will animate the race im sure of it!

you know the diehard fans don't just want to see him 'animate the race'

Yeah, but i still think he has a chance to win it, the tour is open this year!

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Why the pessimism? I expected him to lose at least 30 seconds, he actually paced himself really well. He will animate the race im sure of it!

you know the diehard fans don't just want to see him 'animate the race'

Yeah, but i still think he has a chance to win it, the tour is open this year!

Yes! He definitely does. And so does 6-7 others. And this might be the problem Berto has to face. He has to now drop all of the others fair and square in stages to come, especially in limited MTF's. He can't really afford to drag those others with him as he would lose the sprint and concede seconds in that case.

I feel this tour is not going to have huge time differences at the end, much like in Giro. I.e. Aru and Martin has currently almost the advantage they need to Berto in final TT, so dragging them along while dropping Froome/Porte is probably not going to win the race for Berto. Obvious the situation is worse compared to Froome/Porte as they are probably not going lose any seconds in TT to Berto.

This all makes the race really interesting, Froome is in pole and Richie 2nd atm. If the other has bad day the other can just follow wheels of the rest and win. Aru/Conrador/Martin/Barder needs to drop and take more than a minute compared every GC contender to win the race.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Why the pessimism? I expected him to lose at least 30 seconds, he actually paced himself really well. He will animate the race im sure of it!

you know the diehard fans don't just want to see him 'animate the race'

Yeah, but i still think he has a chance to win it, the tour is open this year!

Yes! He definitely does. And so does 6-7 others. And this might be the problem Berto has to face. He has to now drop all of the others fair and square in stages to come, especially in limited MTF's. He can't really afford to drag those others with him as he would lose the sprint and concede seconds in that case.

I feel this tour is not going to have huge time differences at the end, much like in Giro. I.e. Aru and Martin has currently almost the advantage they need to Berto in final TT, so dragging them along while dropping Froome/Porte is probably not going to win the race for Berto. Obvious the situation is worse compared to Froome/Porte as they are probably not going lose any seconds in TT to Berto.

This all makes the race really interesting, Froome is in pole and Richie 2nd atm. If the other has bad day the other can just follow wheels of the rest and win. Aru/Conrador/Martin/Barder needs to drop and take more than a minute compared every GC contender to win the race.

I think you can see how three of these could possibly make up time. Aru by outclimbing Porte/Froome like yesterday, Bardet by attacking on a descent and Martin by taking time in the last km and bonus seconds. Contador though, I'm not sure. It's difficult to see him outclimbing, outdescending or out-sprinting Froome; maybe he will have to try a surprise attack on a flatter stage.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Why the pessimism? I expected him to lose at least 30 seconds, he actually paced himself really well. He will animate the race im sure of it!

you know the diehard fans don't just want to see him 'animate the race'

Yeah, but i still think he has a chance to win it, the tour is open this year!

I think so as well but he has to improve a little

 

[LaFlorecita]

@bambino Berto doesn't have to drop everyone with an attack. If on one day he has say Bardet and Froome on his wheel, and on another Aru and Porte, he can still be the big winner that's why it's important to be consistent.

 

[King Boonen]

Short climb, steep ramps, start of the Tour. It's basically the formula for Froome to take the jersey and get an unassailable gap. I think the fact the gap is definitely not unassailable means Berto fans (and Aru, Porte and even Bardet fans) can take some heart from the current situation.

Beating Froome is never going to be easy, there is a lot of racing left and no-one knows what each riders form is going to be. But for me, watching Froome on that last climb, he looked more beatable than he has the last few years.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Short climb, steep ramps, start of the Tour. It's basically the formula for Froome to take the jersey and get an unassailable gap. I think the fact the gap is definitely not unassailable means Berto fans (and Aru, Porte and even Bardet fans) can take some heart from the current situation.

Beating Froome is never going to be easy, there is a lot of racing left and no-one knows what each riders form is going to be. But for me, watching Froome on that last climb, he looked more beatable than he has the last few years.

I think the problem for Contador is not so much the gap to Froome. But the fact that after a time trial and one MTF, he is also behind Bardet, Aru and Martin. He'd surely expect to be ahead of those by now, but that TT performance has cost him a bit. Froome may look beatable, but other riders are now better placed to beat him than Contador.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Short climb, steep ramps, start of the Tour. It's basically the formula for Froome to take the jersey and get an unassailable gap. I think the fact the gap is definitely not unassailable means Berto fans (and Aru, Porte and even Bardet fans) can take some heart from the current situation.

Beating Froome is never going to be easy, there is a lot of racing left and no-one knows what each riders form is going to be. But for me, watching Froome on that last climb, he looked more beatable than he has the last few years.

I think the problem for Contador is not so much the gap to Froome. But the fact that after a time trial and one MTF, he is also behind Bardet, Aru and Martin. He'd surely expect to be ahead of those by now, but that TT performance has cost him a bit. Froome may look beatable, but other riders are now better placed to beat him than Contador.

Everyone looks beatable at the moment. Aru wins round two after Froome delivered in the first TT.

 

[bambino]

Re:

@bambino Berto doesn't have to drop everyone with an attack. If on one day he has say Bardet and Froome on his wheel, and on another Aru and Porte, he can still be the big winner that's why it's important to be consistent.

Indeed, that is why I said he has a chance of winning. It though indeed requires almost all other contenders having one bad day among the 3-4 stages you really can make difference. It is a very slim chance I think, but chance regardless.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Short climb, steep ramps, start of the Tour. It's basically the formula for Froome to take the jersey and get an unassailable gap. I think the fact the gap is definitely not unassailable means Berto fans (and Aru, Porte and even Bardet fans) can take some heart from the current situation.

Beating Froome is never going to be easy, there is a lot of racing left and no-one knows what each riders form is going to be. But for me, watching Froome on that last climb, he looked more beatable than he has the last few years.

I think the problem for Contador is not so much the gap to Froome. But the fact that after a time trial and one MTF, he is also behind Bardet, Aru and Martin. He'd surely expect to be ahead of those by now, but that TT performance has cost him a bit. Froome may look beatable, but other riders are now better placed to beat him than Contador.

Definitely yes, my post was more pointing out that Froome looks beatable and Berto is still there in the group who could. I agree with your assessment of the full situation.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

Well, if anything, the way he closed the gap to the group ahead was impressive. He did lose a couple of seconds in the last ramp, which I expected. But the good thing is, that neither Froome nor Porte looked brilliant. I expected Porte to do what Aru did today. Porte seems to have kept the Dauphine shape. All the others have raised it... The Tour might be interesting after all!

I'm partly through today's comments and this so far is close to my thinking. I don't think either Porte or Froome will improve from here--I think Porte's peak form was the Dauphine and I think Froome is having an off year. If Contador's recovery is still as good as it has been in the past, there's still a chance for podium and possibly the win. Call me naive or a fanboy, but I took nothing but positives away from today

Agree on Porte, but not really on Froome. I think Froome ia going to improve significantly during the race. He said himself he feels fresher than previous years (less competitions) though missing the absolute peak still which he hopes to come out in week 3.

Berto seems to have very good form for high tempo in lower (4-8%) gradients, but seems to still miss the absolute power when the road and competiton really kicks. Still trying to tackle all the way with huge gears?

6 sec to Froome/Porte is nothing, but I think the podium speed in this race is the performance Aru showed yesterday, to win the race one has to clearly beat that level in the next 2 weeks.

I definitely recall what he says about feeling fresher. He just didn't look that great yesterday. Certainly not like 2012 Froome. This weekend will tell whether he's getting better. Assuming no one crashes from boredom over the next two days.

 

[bob.a.feet]

So far Contador has been on the defensive, which he has done a good job of limiting his losses. But pretty soon he has to start going on the offensive and start regaining time. Towards the end of the stage when Contador led a group back to the Froome group was very encouraging to say the least, and if he didn't get too carried away once he bridged the gap he might have not lost any time.

 

[bambino]

Re:

So far Contador has been on the defensive, which he has done a good job of limiting his losses. But pretty soon he has to start going on the offensive and start regaining time. Towards the end of the stage when Contador led a group back to the Froome group was very encouraging to say the least, and if he didn't get too carried away once he bridged the gap he might have not lost any time.

It certainly looked really impressive, but I can't help suspecting Froome/Porte were not going full gas and focusing themselves. Berto's tempo wasn't mindblowing, otherwise the 5 riders could've not followed him seemingly easily.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re:

Short climb, steep ramps, start of the Tour. It's basically the formula for Froome to take the jersey and get an unassailable gap. I think the fact the gap is definitely not unassailable means Berto fans (and Aru, Porte and even Bardet fans) can take some heart from the current situation.

Beating Froome is never going to be easy, there is a lot of racing left and no-one knows what each riders form is going to be. But for me, watching Froome on that last climb, he looked more beatable than he has the last few years.

One of the reasons for Froome's dominance is exactly that. The jersey just seems to fall to him every year in the first week and then he and his team just have to defend it.