Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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Mar 16, 2015
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I hope he doesn't retire at the end of the season :( he has shown he can still perform well in one-week races, he should focus on those. Giro and Vuelta.. I don't know, the competition is as fierce as with the Tour recently and the stages are usually harder, it's not going to change much aside maybe from the fact that he has a ton of fans in Italy and that he is a national hero in Spain.
 
Aug 5, 2009
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hrotha said:
bob.a.feet said:
It's so crazy that Sastre and Pereiro both won a Tour. A bit off topic I know but just considering that riders like Basso could never manage it, it still seems so strange.
I think it's crazy to compare Sastre to Pereiro. Sastre was one of the most consistent GC riders of the 2000s. Aside from his 2008 Tour victory, he podiumed another two times, and he also has one podium at the Giro and three at the Vuelta, plus plenty other top 10's in all three GTs. Sastre is criminally underrated.

It's also criminal the way Pereiro was treated. It wasn't his fault that he was gifted too much time in a break, a top 10 or 15 GC rider at the time. He rode very well. It was like some people had more sympathy for Landis. But of course Sastre was a level above.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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aphronesis said:
I've always been mystified (post 14) by the lack of attention to Riis. There's even an intervuew where confirms it.

Ferryman: don't knock the extrvagant languages: rhub has to deal in a super mongrel form day to day.
What is it people are referring to about what Riis said related to his training?
 
Jun 12, 2016
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movingtarget said:
hrotha said:
bob.a.feet said:
It's so crazy that Sastre and Pereiro both won a Tour. A bit off topic I know but just considering that riders like Basso could never manage it, it still seems so strange.
I think it's crazy to compare Sastre to Pereiro. Sastre was one of the most consistent GC riders of the 2000s. Aside from his 2008 Tour victory, he podiumed another two times, and he also has one podium at the Giro and three at the Vuelta, plus plenty other top 10's in all three GTs. Sastre is criminally underrated.

It's also criminal the way Pereiro was treated. It wasn't his fault that he was gifted too much time in a break, a top 10 or 15 GC rider at the time. He rode very well. It was like some people had more sympathy for Landis. But of course Sastre was a level above.
Ya I get that. I didn't mean to disrespect either rider (both great riders), but when you look at the list of winners, Pereiro and Sastre both stick out.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
aphronesis said:
I've always been mystified (post 14) by the lack of attention to Riis. There's even an intervuew where confirms it.

Ferryman: don't knock the extrvagant languages: rhub has to deal in a super mongrel form day to day.
What is it people are referring to about what Riis said related to his training?
That he could still reach top level but was training wrong. Working to much in the saddle/power.
 
Jun 10, 2017
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Pereira and Sastre are both unfortunate to be those "between-era"/"absent patron" winners, kind of like how people say "Roche and Delgado would never have won without Lemond's accident", or dismiss the likes of Walkowiak and Robic.
 
Feb 23, 2014
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Electress said:
The Hitch said:
If Contador had won his Tours towards the end of his career, they would be remembered more fondly.

The fact that he won them at the beginning, and then added only giros and vueltas in the second half, will make it for many people a - what could have been.

Maybe he could have made it top 3 of all time with Eddy and Hinault.
No one will ever make that argument now.

But he's still young and got his life set for him, a young family. Hopefully he'll be able to enjoy it, build on it and put cycling behind him.

Once its all over it doesn't even matter that much what you won back when you were young, but the family and the day to day. At the end of the day I doubt its neccesarily the Eddy's and the Bernard's and the Miguel's that live the most satisfying lives. Life is a very different game to cycling.

I think what people saw in Contador that made them like him, (certainly his fanbase seems to me the biggest of any cyclist since Pantani) was that he has traits of an alpha male. Armstrong was portrayed as that, but the ruthlessness about him created the aura of someone who was unable to remain calm under pressure - a form of weakness. Contador was calm, always. He never seemed to betray hate. He was diplomatic, and didn't speak or appear that much- creating mystery. His early dominance, combined with the way he was able to light up stages occasionally, taking risks gave him a reputation of someone who was always in with a chance and who would never give up. All traits people look for in their heroes. He in some ways run on this reputation way beyond its expiry date, visible by the fact that despite not coming close to even wearing a yellow jersey since 2010, somehow every year his fans think he could win.

For me I will always look back on Contador as a case of what could have been. Its sad for me because I would have been happy for him to win one more in the last 7 years. But its a reminder that cycling really is amongst the most cold, brutal sports, and at the end of the day, as the likes of Marco and Michelle have shown us, there are worse ways for it to end.

This is a nice and thoughtful post to see amidst some of the gloating. I certainly would agree with a lot of it. Funny about the Alpha male thing, though. I wouldn't describe him as that - perhaps because I equate 'alphas' with more extrovert tendencies and desire to dominate others. A lot of the qualities of 'alphas' - confidence, single-mindedness, competitiveness etc. - can all too quickly overspill into some pretty unpleasant excesses - arrogance, conceit, vanity, bullying, ruthlessness, braggadoccio etc. etc. A need to be the centre of attention in all ways and all areas. To win everything. Even the game of tag with your kid; whatever.

Where Contador appears to be different is that he doesn't tend to exhibit these excesses much and certainly very little outside racing. Despite immense talent, he's seemed to keep his feet pretty well on the ground and retain a sense of dignity, humility and perspective even immediately after disappointment. He might not be the 'big extrovert personality', but there is a lot of appeal in someone who appears consistent and sincere in their behaviour;to have integrity.

Regarding traits one looks for in heroes - for me that is very much linked to the way Contador races: I have an intense dislike and mistrust of the 'system' and over-bearing, rigid, planned control; I like the people who can mix things up by being freakishly talented, unpredictable, having courage and instinct and being prepared to take chances and live with the consequences. So I guess Contador's way of racing helps to affirm my attitude to life - that's it's a hell of a lot more fun, more inspiring, more pretty much anything, to go for it than to live according to a calculated playbook. I guess maybe that way you don't always win what you could, but the chance to go up or down in glorious flames is about a million per cent higher. For all Contador is ageing, stuff like last year's Vuelta and this year's Paris-Nice show that this aspect at least is the same as ever.

I am sorry about today. I wish it were different, but not everything last's forever, and I'll take whatever throws of the dice he feels like giving for the rest of his career, because frankly, he's still the guy that whatever race he's in, makes the race just a little more interesting. We need more like that - cycling is most fun when it's predominantly about individual exploits and individual goals - whether that's a loan breakaway holding off the peloton against the odds, or a guy like Contador doing some long-range attack and shattering the predicted roadbook. It's better if they win in the end, but I still wouldn't trade. Those folks are the reason I watch cycling.

Good points from both of you.

I now know what he's capable of at this point in his career. I can accept it. I'll enjoy whatever glimpses of the past he shows off and on.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Well I'm not going to say he should retire, it's for him and him alone. If he still enjoys racing and he can secure a contract that suits him then great. I'm not really sure what's happened lately, yes he is 34 but he seems to have dropped off a cliff compared to his performances of a few years ago. I just don't think 34 is that old to see these differences but maybe I'm wrong.

He did start to reach the height of his powers very young so I guess 8-10 years at the very top in this game is quite rare. The more I think the more that's probably the reason. Most big GC riders of the last 25 years have come good around 27-28 years old and faded around 32-33. So in that respect Contador has had a great innings at the very top. 2014 will always gripe I reckon, I think with Froome out he was probably odds on to win that but hey-ho...you can't keep living in the past

He's been a great champ and provided us with some epic stage races, not only winning but in the way he won
 
Electress said:
The Hitch said:
If Contador had won his Tours towards the end of his career, they would be remembered more fondly.

The fact that he won them at the beginning, and then added only giros and vueltas in the second half, will make it for many people a - what could have been.

Maybe he could have made it top 3 of all time with Eddy and Hinault.
No one will ever make that argument now.

But he's still young and got his life set for him, a young family. Hopefully he'll be able to enjoy it, build on it and put cycling behind him.

Once its all over it doesn't even matter that much what you won back when you were young, but the family and the day to day. At the end of the day I doubt its neccesarily the Eddy's and the Bernard's and the Miguel's that live the most satisfying lives. Life is a very different game to cycling.

I think what people saw in Contador that made them like him, (certainly his fanbase seems to me the biggest of any cyclist since Pantani) was that he has traits of an alpha male. Armstrong was portrayed as that, but the ruthlessness about him created the aura of someone who was unable to remain calm under pressure - a form of weakness. Contador was calm, always. He never seemed to betray hate. He was diplomatic, and didn't speak or appear that much- creating mystery. His early dominance, combined with the way he was able to light up stages occasionally, taking risks gave him a reputation of someone who was always in with a chance and who would never give up. All traits people look for in their heroes. He in some ways run on this reputation way beyond its expiry date, visible by the fact that despite not coming close to even wearing a yellow jersey since 2010, somehow every year his fans think he could win.

For me I will always look back on Contador as a case of what could have been. Its sad for me because I would have been happy for him to win one more in the last 7 years. But its a reminder that cycling really is amongst the most cold, brutal sports, and at the end of the day, as the likes of Marco and Michelle have shown us, there are worse ways for it to end.

This is a nice and thoughtful post to see amidst some of the gloating. I certainly would agree with a lot of it. Funny about the Alpha male thing, though. I wouldn't describe him as that - perhaps because I equate 'alphas' with more extrovert tendencies and desire to dominate others. A lot of the qualities of 'alphas' - confidence, single-mindedness, competitiveness etc. - can all too quickly overspill into some pretty unpleasant excesses - arrogance, conceit, vanity, bullying, ruthlessness, braggadoccio etc. etc. A need to be the centre of attention in all ways and all areas. To win everything. Even the game of tag with your kid; whatever

You are for the most part describing tryhards and wannabees that have nothing to do with Alphas. You've buyed into the myth and their perception of it.

Go watch The Godfather för a brutal experience of what defines alpha and what doesnt.
 
May 15, 2011
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I don't have much to say except what has already been said a few times. I agree with Hitch that it seems like more of a sad story for him now. On the other hand, I think the lack of big wins makes us appreciate even the small wins more. As Hitch said, we haven't been spoilt as fans. It would have been nicer if the hard times had been at the start of his career, with victories aplenty in the 2nd part. Happy ending.

I just wanted to see him battle it out on the biggest stage in cycling one last time. It's sad to think many will now always consider him less than Froome because he got absolutely butchered by not just him but also his domestiques in the 2nd half of his career. It hurts to think about all the years and potential Giro/Vuelta victories he threw away chasing that one elusive Tour victory after his ban. In hindsight 2014 was probably his best and maybe even last chance, but it is what it is.

I agree with others that he should not return to the Tour. It's no shame to admit it is maybe just not the right race for him. I think it's obvious the Tour and even French races in general haven't been very kind to him in recent years. Seems like they've all just given him heartbreak after heartbreak. He seems to thrive better in Italy and Spain so let's just go for one more year doing an all-Spanish-Italian season. No Paris-Nice, no Dauphiné, no TDF. I wish he can take one more big victory, whether it's a stage race or a GT stage, it doesn't matter much, but he deserves at least one more moment of glory. It would be beyond sad if he would have to end his career next year with no wins in his last 2 seasons as a pro. We would have to conclude that maybe his initial idea of retiring at the end of 2016 was the right one.

I don't think he saw this coming, we can discuss for hours why he didn't and why he should have, but on the photos I've seen of him after yesterday's stage he looks like a broken man and he sounds like one in the post-race interviews. I think he really believed he could be up there and reality hit him like a truck. I'm interested in his rest day interviews. I hope he gives us a bit more information and also tells us what he's going to do now. It seems obvious that his teammates will now get freedom to chase stages, but I wasn't happy to see a comment in the team's press release that "knowing Alberto, he'll still chase GC". I did like a reply to that, "stop whipping the poor guy, let him be realistic and have dignity and aim for a stage win". He's 5 minutes down on Froome and 4 minutes outside the top-5. Maybe it's selfish but I don't want to see him cling on and then fade away halfway up every final climb in the hopes of finishing somewhere in the lower regions of the top-10. He deserves better than that, if this is to be his last Tour he should get at least some satisfaction out of it. Whether that means chasing stages, dots or helping Aru overthrow Froome, that's up to him :)
 
Oct 16, 2012
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Shame he crashed yesterday, as we will never know his true level though I yhink he would have finished with Quintana group
 
Jul 1, 2013
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LaFlorecita said:
I don't have much to say except what has already been said a few times. I agree with Hitch that it seems like more of a sad story for him now. On the other hand, I think the lack of big wins makes us appreciate even the small wins more. As Hitch said, we haven't been spoilt as fans. It would have been nicer if the hard times had been at the start of his career, with victories aplenty in the 2nd part. Happy ending.

I just wanted to see him battle it out on the biggest stage in cycling one last time. It's sad to think many will now always consider him less than Froome because he got absolutely butchered by not just him but also his domestiques in the 2nd half of his career. It hurts to think about all the years and potential Giro/Vuelta victories he threw away chasing that one elusive Tour victory after his ban. In hindsight 2014 was probably his best and maybe even last chance, but it is what it is.

I agree with others that he should not return to the Tour. It's no shame to admit it is maybe just not the right race for him. I think it's obvious the Tour and even French races in general haven't been very kind to him in recent years. Seems like they've all just given him heartbreak after heartbreak. He seems to thrive better in Italy and Spain so let's just go for one more year doing an all-Spanish-Italian season. No Paris-Nice, no Dauphiné, no TDF. I wish he can take one more big victory, whether it's a stage race or a GT stage, it doesn't matter much, but he deserves at least one more moment of glory. It would be beyond sad if he would have to end his career next year with no wins in his last 2 seasons as a pro. We would have to conclude that maybe his initial idea of retiring at the end of 2016 was the right one.

I don't think he saw this coming, we can discuss for hours why he didn't and why he should have, but on the photos I've seen of him after yesterday's stage he looks like a broken man and he sounds like one in the post-race interviews. I think he really believed he could be up there and reality hit him like a truck. I'm interested in his rest day interviews. I hope he gives us a bit more information and also tells us what he's going to do now. It seems obvious that his teammates will now get freedom to chase stages, but I wasn't happy to see a comment in the team's press release that "knowing Alberto, he'll still chase GC". I did like a reply to that, "stop whipping the poor guy, let him be realistic and have dignity and aim for a stage win". He's 5 minutes down on Froome and 4 minutes outside the top-5. Maybe it's selfish but I don't want to see him cling on and then fade away halfway up every final climb in the hopes of finishing somewhere in the lower regions of the top-10. He deserves better than that, if this is to be his last Tour he should get at least some satisfaction out of it. Whether that means chasing stages, dots or helping Aru overthrow Froome, that's up to him :)

Nice........ :)
 
Jul 1, 2013
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Whatever Contador decides to do it's all good, nobody else in the world is beating Froome in any GT he prioritises anyway.
 
Yesterday reminded me of watching a video of the 1996 Tour and Indurian being dropped....never rode a GT again

What I find hard to envisage is what goals Contador can realistically have going forward....He is so goal orientated and has been for years...what will he focus on now

And I think people are deluded to think there is a Giro or Viuelta win around the corner There are so many very good riders now in these races who appear to be a step above Contador . Of course he can he better than yesterday but will he beat Dumoulin or Aru, Pinot or Bardet not to mention Froome , etc

Its is so so hard for a rider to retire and even harder for a top rider to accept that they dont have it anymore.....its your whole life suddenly coming to a stop...well the life you have known....very hard....but lots of riders both the great, the good and the not so good accept this

I personally think the best way froward fro Alberto is to target a few specific races and one day classics if he rides on in 2018

Anyone thought he could get together with Riis again and have a WT team ??
 
Jun 12, 2016
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I think the main problem is the timeline of his results. Compare Contador's results with Evans'. Evans' has one TDF but it came at the end of his career, which makes it seem like a happy ending. Contador won way more TDFs at the start of his career, but now the race eludes him. But we really shouldn't be sad because he won 7 (9) Grand Tours over his career. It doesn't matter when he won them. And I know it feels like there's unfinished business with the Tour, like he could have won it more. It only feels like that because he won his Tours at the start. Winning 3 Tours sounds like finished business to me, but Contador is a competitor, a winner. He wanted more.

You could argue that Contador got more. Since 2010, he has won 4 Grand Tours (Giro 2011, 2015 + Vuelta 2012, 2014), the same amount of GT wins as Nibali. And perhaps he will win more next year ;) .

Maybe it will always feel like unfinished business with the Tour. But it shouldn't feel that way for a 3 time Tour winner, 9 time Grand Tour winner.

And maybe this year he could finish some of that business. Contador might go stage hunting, maybe even winning the KOM jersey (the only jersey,apart from green, he hasn't won).
 
Apr 5, 2015
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It's difficult to see what he can do in the remainder of the race and his career. Switching to stage hunting is a viable option if you have good form but lost time due to a mechanical, bad day etc. If you haven't got the form then there's no reason to think he'll be able to win a stage. Aside from that, he just doesn't seem that interested in winning stages and hasn't shown much of an aptitude for it, even in his better days. I think he'll probably continue riding for GC in the hope that he can rebuild his confidence a bit by managing to stick with the GC group on one or more days. He'll probably try to animate a stage, but as with the Vuelta '16, it will likely benefit someone else and he won't be able to follow through with the stage win.

With the benefit of hindsight, it seems like he was probably pretty near his current top level at the Vuelta '16 and that level isn't good enough to win any of the GTs. A week long stage race is still a possibility, but even then he has come up short this year and is likely to be slightly worse next year. The most logical thing would be to switch to mentoring an up and coming rider, but there isn't really an obvious candidate for that at Trek and helping someone like Mollema, who's already pretty long in the tooth himself, doesn't seem very compelling.
 
Jul 1, 2013
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bob.a.feet said:
I think the main problem is the timeline of his results. Compare Contador's results with Evans'. Evans' has one TDF but it came at the end of his career, which makes it seem like a happy ending. Contador won way more TDFs at the start of his career, but now the race eludes him. But we really shouldn't be sad because he won 7 (9) Grand Tours over his career. It doesn't matter when he won them. And I know it feels like there's unfinished business with the Tour, like he could have won it more. It only feels like that because he won his Tours at the start. Winning 3 Tours sounds like finished business to me, but Contador is a competitor, a winner. He wanted more.

You could argue that Contador got more. Since 2010, he has won 4 Grand Tours (Giro 2011, 2015 + Vuelta 2012, 2014), the same amount of GT wins as Nibali. And perhaps he will win more next year ;) .

Maybe it will always feel like unfinished business with the Tour. But it shouldn't feel that way for a 3 time Tour winner, 9 time Grand Tour winner.

And maybe this year he could finish some of that business. Contador might go stage hunting, maybe even winning the KOM jersey (the only jersey,apart from green, he hasn't won).

I feel it does matter a little when he won them. These past few years are a better test of true Athletic ability. We got the answer, he is not on Froomes level, always someone better out there.
 
Sep 11, 2016
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Think I saw somewhere that he was gonna be signing a new contract on the first rest day. It will be interesting to see what becomes of that seeing things haven't turned out quite right up to now. Wonder if he goes/they give him a full season or until the end of the Giro if he's gonna target that as one last swansong. It was sad watching him struggle yesterday and just wish him the best in whatever he decides.
 
Aug 26, 2014
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No_Balls said:
You are for the most part describing tryhards and wannabees that have nothing to do with Alphas. You've buyed into the myth and their perception of it.

Go watch The Godfather för a brutal experience of what defines alpha and what doesnt.

Alpha male

"a man tending to assume a dominant or domineering role in social or professional situations."

The rest is open to interpretation.
 
May 15, 2011
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Electress said:
No_Balls said:
You are for the most part describing tryhards and wannabees that have nothing to do with Alphas. You've buyed into the myth and their perception of it.

Go watch The Godfather för a brutal experience of what defines alpha and what doesnt.

Alpha male

"a man tending to assume a dominant or domineering role in social or professional situations."

The rest is open to interpretation.
That doesn't scream Berto to me :)
 
Mar 11, 2013
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I'll be surprised if he doesn't retire at the end of this season. I think we will find he or Trek delay signing this contract renewal that's apparently supposed to be signed today.
 
Jun 20, 2015
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LaFlorecita said:
5 pages of intelligent discussion -

yaco said:
He should retire at the end of the season.

:eek:

I don't need to write a dissertation to give àn opinion. I don't say things lightly. It's obvious that Contador is struggling to be competitive in this TDF which is a theme likely to be repeated in 2018 in any GT.
 
Mar 20, 2010
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HelloDolly said:
Yesterday reminded me of watching a video of the 1996 Tour and Indurian being dropped....never rode a GT again

Yes he did,he started the the 1996 Vuelta after being forcefully 'encouraged' to by his team management. He abandoned on stage 13 after being dropped by all the race favorites and never rode a bike again in a professional race.

It is the normal end for the Legends in this sport. Cruel and sadly broken like LeMond being picked up by the broom wagon when he couldn't keep up.

I really don't want to see Alberto have to endure this :(. I've seen it to many times.....