Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[contador_attacks]

I don't think he will retire after a disappointing Tour. He will try to win the Giro one last time.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

I think one of the biggest reasons for the delay could be how Contador will be supported in the 2018.
Trek have already made huge mistakes in not looking at training numbers and Dauphine Results and the build-up to the Tour.
Contador was so so far away from his best that a team like Trek should've been able to foresee such a scenario. Now they've got a 7 time GT winner who doesnt look good enough to even podium in a GT.
The higher ups definitely arent happy and obviously shouldnt be.
Now this friction IMO is causing the hold-up and even though Trek want him to do the Vuelta(Because they have nobody else), Contador wouldnt say yes until the contract is signed the way he wants it to be.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

I think one of the biggest reasons for the delay could be how Contador will be supported in the 2018.
Trek have already made huge mistakes in not looking at training numbers and Dauphine Results and the build-up to the Tour.
Contador was so so far away from his best that a team like Trek should've been able to foresee such a scenario. Now they've got a 7 time GT winner who doesnt look good enough to even podium in a GT.
The higher ups definitely arent happy and obviously shouldnt be.
Now this friction IMO is causing the hold-up and even though Trek want him to do the Vuelta(Because they have nobody else), Contador wouldnt say yes until the contract is signed the way he wants it to be.

Or Trek is still in the race for Uran and does not want to conclude Contador business before closing that door.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Actually Trek wanted him to do a North American end of the season for sponsor reasons and the Vuelta was supposed to be for their sprinter-y riders. Nizzolo, Theuns etc.
IMO this delay is bad, Vuelta is 2 weeks away

 

[cellardoor]

Yes, I suspect the issue is a differing view on what should be his targets. Contador probably wants to do the Vuelta this year and then Giro next year and then retire. Trek probably want him to do the North American races, then the Tour again next year as part of a full season. He might be willing to fall in line in terms of the end of season races this year but I think the Giro vs Tour issue is a deal breaker for Contador. On the other hand, I suspect Contador has settled in at Trek and doesn't fancy another move and the hassle that goes with it; while Trek probably like the idea that his legacy will be more connected to the Trek brand if he retires in a Trek jersey.

 

[bambino]

Re:

Yes, I suspect the issue is a differing view on what should be his targets. Contador probably wants to do the Vuelta this year and then Giro next year and then retire. Trek probably want him to do the North American races, then the Tour again next year as part of a full season. He might be willing to fall in line in terms of the end of season races this year but I think the Giro vs Tour issue is a deal breaker for Contador. On the other hand, I suspect Contador has settled in at Trek and doesn't fancy another move and the hassle that goes with it; while Trek probably like the idea that his legacy will be more connected to the Trek brand if he retires in a Trek jersey.

Confirmed news of Uran talking with Trek for next year confirms that Trek is looking for GC leader already for 2018. Probably for TDF so maybe they've given up of Berto going there at least as GC leader.

But where does that leave Mollema? He still has the best GT results of Trek this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he has one guaranteed GC leadership in his contract per year. And I don't think he really fancies Vuelta although his career best GC placing is from Spain. He hasn't been riding Vuelta since 2013...

 

[Gigs_98]

The thing with the Vuelta this year is that berto probably wants a team dedicated to him but trek doesn't want that after this years tour. And especially considering the usually weak sprinters field in the vuelta nizzolo should definitely be there. I hope Contador will ride the vuelta anyway and will then ride the giro next year.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

I think one of the biggest reasons for the delay could be how Contador will be supported in the 2018.
Trek have already made huge mistakes in not looking at training numbers and Dauphine Results and the build-up to the Tour.
Contador was so so far away from his best that a team like Trek should've been able to foresee such a scenario. Now they've got a 7 time GT winner who doesnt look good enough to even podium in a GT.
The higher ups definitely arent happy and obviously shouldnt be.
Now this friction IMO is causing the hold-up and even though Trek want him to do the Vuelta(Because they have nobody else), Contador wouldnt say yes until the contract is signed the way he wants it to be.

Is the elephant in the room that Trek aren't actually very good? At least in terms of getting the best out of their riders and peaking. Perhaps Cancellara's successes were covering up a pretty poor training programme in the last few years.

It's difficult to think of many riders who have improved since going there, apart from the odd youngster. Pantano looks a shadow of what he was last year, Degenkolb has hit nowhere near the heights of 2015, Stuyven and Theuns haven't really kicked on, Mollema has stayed pretty much the same, Nizzolo not really fulfilling potential. Even Felline is seriously inconsistent in peaking for the big races, and of course Contador got it horribly wrong at the Tour.

Seems like they have taken over Cannondale's mantle of managing to get the least out of your riders.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

I think one of the biggest reasons for the delay could be how Contador will be supported in the 2018.
Trek have already made huge mistakes in not looking at training numbers and Dauphine Results and the build-up to the Tour.
Contador was so so far away from his best that a team like Trek should've been able to foresee such a scenario. Now they've got a 7 time GT winner who doesnt look good enough to even podium in a GT.
The higher ups definitely arent happy and obviously shouldnt be.
Now this friction IMO is causing the hold-up and even though Trek want him to do the Vuelta(Because they have nobody else), Contador wouldnt say yes until the contract is signed the way he wants it to be.

Is the elephant in the room that Trek aren't actually very good? At least in terms of getting the best out of their riders and peaking. Perhaps Cancellara's successes were covering up a pretty poor training programme in the last few years.

It's difficult to think of many riders who have improved since going there, apart from the odd youngster. Pantano looks a shadow of what he was last year, Degenkolb has hit nowhere near the heights of 2015, Stuyven and Theuns haven't really kicked on, Mollema has stayed pretty much the same, Nizzolo not really fulfilling potential. Even Felline is seriously inconsistent in peaking for the big races, and of course Contador got it horribly wrong at the Tour.

Seems like they have taken over Cannondale's mantle of managing to get the least out of your riders.

I disagree with you about Felline and Mollema. Felline was sick in the tour, but he has progressed since last year and was very impressivein the spring. Mollema is arguably a better rider on Trek than he ever was on Belkin/Rabobank.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

I think one of the biggest reasons for the delay could be how Contador will be supported in the 2018.
Trek have already made huge mistakes in not looking at training numbers and Dauphine Results and the build-up to the Tour.
Contador was so so far away from his best that a team like Trek should've been able to foresee such a scenario. Now they've got a 7 time GT winner who doesnt look good enough to even podium in a GT.
The higher ups definitely arent happy and obviously shouldnt be.
Now this friction IMO is causing the hold-up and even though Trek want him to do the Vuelta(Because they have nobody else), Contador wouldnt say yes until the contract is signed the way he wants it to be.

Is the elephant in the room that Trek aren't actually very good? At least in terms of getting the best out of their riders and peaking. Perhaps Cancellara's successes were covering up a pretty poor training programme in the last few years.

It's difficult to think of many riders who have improved since going there, apart from the odd youngster. Pantano looks a shadow of what he was last year, Degenkolb has hit nowhere near the heights of 2015, Stuyven and Theuns haven't really kicked on, Mollema has stayed pretty much the same, Nizzolo not really fulfilling potential. Even Felline is seriously inconsistent in peaking for the big races, and of course Contador got it horribly wrong at the Tour.

Seems like they have taken over Cannondale's mantle of managing to get the least out of your riders.

I disagree with you about Felline and Mollema. Felline was sick in the tour, but he has progressed since last year and was very impressivein the spring. Mollema is arguably a better rider on Trek than he ever was on Belkin/Rabobank.

I think Felline's season is fairly typical of Trek. A very talented rider peaking too early, and then being on the downward curve by the time the big races for him come around. Very similar to what happened with Contador and Pantano, who both looked much stronger in the early season than when it really mattered.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

I think one of the biggest reasons for the delay could be how Contador will be supported in the 2018.
Trek have already made huge mistakes in not looking at training numbers and Dauphine Results and the build-up to the Tour.
Contador was so so far away from his best that a team like Trek should've been able to foresee such a scenario. Now they've got a 7 time GT winner who doesnt look good enough to even podium in a GT.
The higher ups definitely arent happy and obviously shouldnt be.
Now this friction IMO is causing the hold-up and even though Trek want him to do the Vuelta(Because they have nobody else), Contador wouldnt say yes until the contract is signed the way he wants it to be.

Is the elephant in the room that Trek aren't actually very good? At least in terms of getting the best out of their riders and peaking. Perhaps Cancellara's successes were covering up a pretty poor training programme in the last few years.

It's difficult to think of many riders who have improved since going there, apart from the odd youngster. Pantano looks a shadow of what he was last year, Degenkolb has hit nowhere near the heights of 2015, Stuyven and Theuns haven't really kicked on, Mollema has stayed pretty much the same, Nizzolo not really fulfilling potential. Even Felline is seriously inconsistent in peaking for the big races, and of course Contador got it horribly wrong at the Tour.

Seems like they have taken over Cannondale's mantle of managing to get the least out of your riders.

Perhaps...
And Olegs words ring large; These are words which have proven to be so true though he's exaggerated a bit:
"I think Trek manager Luca Guercilena has to be careful. He signed them as a group but I think this group will create a lot of mess at Trek. I want to warn Guercilena about that. It was difficult for anyone to do that to me because I'm strong and have big balls but I'm sure they'll do a mess at Trek.

Personally I think Alberto should stop riding because he's not as strong anymore. I stopped owning the team at the right moment, at the top. He's a great champion and so should stop now. I think he's going to be like a limping duck. He's going to look stupid. At the Vuelta he was dropped by the best four or five riders, next year it will be by the best 20 riders. I don't think he's ever going to win another Grand Tour. He should forget about it and quit."

 

[Gigs_98]

Tinkoff was right that Berto is declining although, as you wrote, he exaggerated a bit. But I do not think that Berto has created a lot of mess at Trek. If there is a problem in the trek training program, that problem had already existed before Berto went to the team

 

[contador_attacks]

He has the legs to win another grand tour. Obviously, he has to be fresh. He is in this 30s. The 2018 Giro should be his main goal.

 

[arvc40]

Re: Re:

Daniel Benson spoke to Alberto's brother & agent and he said Alberto is definitely not retiring but hasn't signed a contract with Trek yet and his participation at the Vuelta hasn't been decided yet.

I think one of the biggest reasons for the delay could be how Contador will be supported in the 2018.
Trek have already made huge mistakes in not looking at training numbers and Dauphine Results and the build-up to the Tour.
Contador was so so far away from his best that a team like Trek should've been able to foresee such a scenario. Now they've got a 7 time GT winner who doesnt look good enough to even podium in a GT.
The higher ups definitely arent happy and obviously shouldnt be.
Now this friction IMO is causing the hold-up and even though Trek want him to do the Vuelta(Because they have nobody else), Contador wouldnt say yes until the contract is signed the way he wants it to be.

Is the elephant in the room that Trek aren't actually very good? At least in terms of getting the best out of their riders and peaking. Perhaps Cancellara's successes were covering up a pretty poor training programme in the last few years.

It's difficult to think of many riders who have improved since going there, apart from the odd youngster. Pantano looks a shadow of what he was last year, Degenkolb has hit nowhere near the heights of 2015, Stuyven and Theuns haven't really kicked on, Mollema has stayed pretty much the same, Nizzolo not really fulfilling potential. Even Felline is seriously inconsistent in peaking for the big races, and of course Contador got it horribly wrong at the Tour.

Seems like they have taken over Cannondale's mantle of managing to get the least out of your riders.

Contador has got it wrong at the Tour since 2011!.

 

[dastott]

Had a great spring this year. Could probably podium the Giro and/or Vuelta next year. Expecting a win is too much, let's be realistic. Hope he sticks around for 2018.

 

[silvergrenade]

Tinkoff was right that Berto is declining although, as you wrote, he exaggerated a bit. But I do not think that Berto has created a lot of mess at Trek. If there is a problem in the trek training program, that problem had already existed before Berto went to the team

About the Training Program, I believe Trek got Contadors whole team including his DS, mechanic, coach etc from Tinkoff and gave him enough independence to not question his poor performances to the build-up of the Tour and take him at face value that he was trying to come in fresh to the Tour....
Plus I cant imagine a bigger mess at Trek than right now but yeah, the mess Oleg points to is a different kind of mess but "a lot of mess" nonetheless.

@contador_attacks : I dont know what youre trying to imply...How do you know he has a GT in his legs? Are you his coach? His DS? What fresh? Wasn't he fresh this year? We've seen how that went down..

 

[Red Rick]

If both want Contador to ride another year, I don't know what the problem could be with the negotiations. I can't imagine Trek want him to do the Tour again next year.

While it's true that Contador underperformed to an extent, it's quite clear that he was affected by crashes in the Tour and that he can do a lot better than that. What's also clear that he's not gonna win a Tour with a 35km TTT and his window of opportunity for a Giro and or Vuelta is closing rapidly.

Only problem I can see are either about support (especially if they want to bring in Uran or someone like that), or issues with what to do now. I'd assume the former.

I don't know if Contado has alternatives besides Trek for next year. I doubt he could get a deal that's better than what he has now.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I could definitely see why the team would want him at the Tour. It's the biggest race.
And I thought it was quite telling that after De Jongh said this TDF would be Alberto's last, Guercilena immediately said nothing has been decided yet.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Trek would be downright stupid to really press on for another Tour. That ship has sailed. He could win the Giro however, with luck and such, so why not go for that instead? Trek also has a fair amount of interest in doing well in Italy...

 

[Roku]

Contador winning the Giro is as probable as JC Peraud finished second on Tour 2014. If the stars align, it could happen, but he currently lacks the phisical ability to do so. If the three/four main contenders fall apart, then he may have a shot at the victory.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Contador winning the Giro is as probable as JC Peraud finished second on Tour 2014. If the stars align, it could happen, but he currently lacks the phisical ability to do so. If the three/four main contenders fall apart, then he may have a shot at the victory.

But he has a shot at winning, he has none in France.

 

[contador_attacks]

The crashes are killing him in the Tour... It's unbelieavable.

 

[Red Rick]

The difference in chances aren't for because of climbing times, it's almost completely how it's raced and how likely he is to reach the mountains in good health. I think the only top contender who's very likely to do the Giro right now is Landa.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

The crashes are killing him in the Tour... It's unbelieavable.

There's something else other than the crashes though.

In Paris-Nice this year, Dan Martin couldn't follow Contador's attack on the final 2 stages. He tried to bridge across and couldn't hold on. Fast forward to July, and Martin with 2 broken vertebrae was able to sit in the GC group at whatever pace Kwiatkowski or Landa could throw down, with enough in reserve to sprint away for a few extra seconds at the finish. But Contador after his couple of crashes couldn't keep up on most of the big stages.

Of the 2, clearly somebody did something right in the months between March and June, and somebody got something wrong.