Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

I don't see what was wrong with what Pantano did. Yes, in hindsight, maybe a 15s gain for Berto would have outweighed a 2nd place. But it could have been a first as well, and maybe with Pantano they would still have been caught. It was the right decision by the team IMO.

Me either! Pantano had a legitimate shot for the win and was very likely told to go for it!

Some people just want to start polemics maybe?

Yeah, if you say so.

The matter of fact is that Alberto is fighting for the GC and his teammates have barely helped him so far.

Do you remember what Scarponi did for Nibali in Risoul last year? That´s a teammate.

The difference is that last year Scarponi would have got caught by Nibali himself if he hadn't dropped back. This time there was less to gain for the gc rider but more to win for the helper, therefore the different decisions.

 

[Carols]

"Today was a really difficult finish to reach ahead of the bunch, but we had Jarlinson to go for the stage win, and Edward [Theuns] to help me," Contador said afterward.

"There was a really strong headwind, so I put on a 55 chainring for the drop down, when we saw they were pulling me back, we put Edward on the front to pull for as long as possible and I tried to conserve some energy for tomorrow."

"It was a pity," Theuns added, "but there was a lot of headwind in the final downhill, we still had to push a lot and that's where I think the guys behind had a bit of an advantage."
...
Asked if he thinks he can still win the Vuelta, Contador admitted that "my overall situation doesn't allow it, but I would like to take a stage victory if I can." His last chance will come on the Angliru, then, where he won back in 2008.

Sounds like Pantano was allowed to go for the stage win, and LaFlo can sleep better because Berto's only going for the stage tomorrow.

But if the legs are strong there will be a whisper in his mind "attack, attack, attack"!!!

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

If I haven’t missed any, these are all the stages on which Contador has attacked, and the result (relative to Froome):

Stage 8. Finished same time
Stage 11. Lost 23 seconds (including time bonus).
Stage 12. Gained 42 seconds.
Stage 14. Lost 6 seconds.
Stage 15: Lost 40 seconds.
Stage 17: Gained 1:24 (including time bonus).
Stage 18: Finished same time.
Stage 19: Finished same time.
Net: :57 gained

Also interesting to note the GC just since the second rest day:

Contador
Froome :25
Kelderman :31
Zakarin :46
Nibali :51
Poels 1:50
Lopez 2:50
Woods 3:32
Aru 3:34
Chaves 9:43

For that and many other things (difference potential equipment)
Alberto has been the best of this Vuelta and is very likely to finish tomorrow 1st or 2nd in the overall standings.
This race has been the Alberto Show.
The rest on another level with all respect towards Froome of course.

Alberto hasn't been the best rider of this Vuelta. I love his aggressive style but he gained time because Froome allowed him to. Why would he match Alberto when he already has a big lead?

Lol

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

Little boys will get on their bikes dreaming of being able to race like the Great Alberto Contador.

This. No one will grow up dreaming of racing like Froome (not being a hater, but it's like when a wise man once said "no one wants to grow up to be a Gary Neville"). I sometimes imagine myself being Contador on any sort of incline and try dance on the pedals. Then I remember I can't push 500 watts for extended periods of time and I die.

This is nonsense. Both Contador and Froome are both attacking and entertaining riders. They are both riders that that inspire people. Froome won on Mont Ventoux solo in the Yellow Jersey. Isn't that the stuff of kids' dreams? Whoever is your favourite, denigrating one to elevate the other is just ignorant.

Now here's a thing that you and others never mention about Contador. While people talk about his attacking riding, I don't think he was much different to many other GT riders. However, he was an exceptional defensive rider. The best I've seen. He lead nine Grand Tours and only once lost the lead (for a day) in one. He could personally follow any attack from any rider at any tempo. That's a harder skill than the attacks his fans love. Look particularly at 2014 and Froome really trying to work him over in the Vuelta (and failing) and in the Dauphine (and not gaining time). But most particularly on the Tourmalet in 2010 where Schleck used every trick he had, but Contador responded so effortlessly journalists asked Schleck why he hadn't attacked.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

I don't see what was wrong with what Pantano did. Yes, in hindsight, maybe a 15s gain for Berto would have outweighed a 2nd place. But it could have been a first as well, and maybe with Pantano they would still have been caught. It was the right decision by the team IMO.

Me either! Pantano had a legitimate shot for the win and was very likely told to go for it!

Some people just want to start polemics maybe?

In total agreement with you both. Of course Pantano deserved to go for the stage, and he very nearly won it.

Just a shame that it was quite a long run in to the line after the climb, and that AC had to contend with a headwind.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Sign me up for a Morzine style kamikaze attack!

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

Little boys will get on their bikes dreaming of being able to race like the Great Alberto Contador.

This. No one will grow up dreaming of racing like Froome (not being a hater, but it's like when a wise man once said "no one wants to grow up to be a Gary Neville"). I sometimes imagine myself being Contador on any sort of incline and try dance on the pedals. Then I remember I can't push 500 watts for extended periods of time and I die.

This is nonsense. Both Contador and Froome are both attacking and entertaining riders. They are both riders that that inspire people. Froome won on Mont Ventoux solo in the Yellow Jersey. Isn't that the stuff of kids' dreams? Whoever is your favourite, denigrating one to elevate the other is just ignorant.

Now here's a thing that you and others never mention about Contador. While people talk about his attacking riding, I don't think he was much different to many other GT riders. However, he was an exceptional defensive rider. The best I've seen. He lead nine Grand Tours and only once lost the lead (for a day) in one. He could personally follow any attack from any rider at any tempo. That's a harder skill than the attacks his fans love. Look particularly at 2014 and Froome really trying to work him over in the Vuelta (and failing) and in the Dauphine (and not gaining time). But most particularly on the Tourmalet in 2010 where Schleck used every trick he had, but Contador responded so effortlessly journalists asked Schleck why he hadn't attacked.

Some good points here. It is easy to forget that Alberto wouldn't go for long range raids when he was already wearing leader's jerseys. And for me, one of my proudest moments of Alberto was on Finestre on 2015. The calmness, the control, when cracking. Wonderful.

In relation too to Schleck, we can recall his long range raid on the Izoard stage of the Tour, and what that could mean for Contador on stage 20 today. Andy was brilliant, and climbed to a four minutes advantage. However, he cracked quite badly in the last few kms on Galibier and gave back half of that time. He cracked because of A) The long range effort, and B) The gradient. As he climbed on 4-6% sections he was still holding onto his advantage over Evans. But when that became 7-9 % he couldn't hold on anymore. Alberto may have this in mind for today. Going on the third last climb is probably suicide. He can hold on during the 6-7 % pitches of the first half of the Angliru, but he would probably give back more than just seconds on the 10-15% pitches of the second half of it.

Cordal is the climb to attack on.

 

[moonstation2000]

Re:

Sounds like Pantano was allowed to go for the stage win, and LaFlo can sleep better because Berto's only going for the stage tomorrow.

But if the legs are strong there will be a whisper in his mind "attack, attack, attack"!!![/quote]


Given that he's such a beautifully lying sandbagger (which I truly admire), I hope he goes all out for the race (not stage) win tomorrow.

What's a stage win to him anyway? Yeah it's a long shot butut even to strike fear into the hearts of the top 3 gets the blood pumping with excitement. Imagine their fear when he shoots off up the road and they have to try to hold on wondering how strong he might be....

I'll be cheering him on and wishing him the best of luck on his last real day of riding. Even if he fails tragically he's given us one last show for the ages with this race. The old Alberto is riding one last time for us...

 

[Sciocco]

It's so sad it's about to be over, yet I'll be screaming at my computer tomorrow for sure. Happy to do it.

 

[dusty red roads]

In the latest CN article on Contador - in the comments someone wrote:

"I've always observed good relations between Contador and Froome. To highlight that, today Contador said, 'I had a nice chat with Froome. I told him in three days’ time, I won’t be attacking him anymore.' ”

Made me laugh! Though bittersweet of course.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

This is nonsense. Both Contador and Froome are both attacking and entertaining riders. They are both riders that that inspire people. Froome won on Mont Ventoux solo in the Yellow Jersey. Isn't that the stuff of kids' dreams? Whoever is your favourite, denigrating one to elevate the other is just ignorant.

If you cannot see the difference between the two, well, I'm not sure how to point it out. Let's just say on one side we have the underdog, on the other side the dominator.
On one side, a rider who is mostly alone when it matters, on the other side one who is mostly accompanied by 4 or 5 of the strongest riders in the world.
On one side, a rider who will try anything to break the race, whenever, wherever, on the other side, one who is in 99% of the cases content to follow his train either to the line or to the point he attacks, which is almost always within the final 5k.
On one side, a rider with a distinctive style in a good way, on the other side a rider with a distinctive style in a bad way.
On one side, we have a rider who rides by heart, one the other side, a rider who rides by his power meter.

Can you see already why more people admire Contador?
Sure Froome attacks as well (though not nearly as much and as far out as Contador) but it's not just about accelerating and putting daylight between you and your competitors. It's about balls and bravery, skills and style, class and courage.

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re: Re:

It's about balls and bravery, skills and style, class and courage.

Sure but it's also about brains. What's the point of breaking climbing records and then be dropped like a stone. In the very same stage. He often acts like a brainless rookie, or the black knight, so that one only can feel shared sense of shame. No offense, while beeing the complete opposite of the sharp Shark he's however an expectional athelete with excellent palmares.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

It's about balls and bravery, skills and style, class and courage.

Sure but it's also about brains. What's the point of breaking climbing records and then be dropped like a stone. In the very same stage. He often acts like a brainless rookie, or the black knight, so that one only can feel shared sense of shame. No offense, while beeing the complete opposite of the sharp Shark he's however an expectional athelete with excellent palmares.

When necessary, he has raced smartly so it's hash to say he doesn't have the brains. It is just not the way he likes it.

 

[Red Rick]

https://twitter.com/marioruiz24/status/906228255451209728

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

https://twitter.com/marioruiz24/status/906228255451209728

Beautiful <3

 

[hrotha]

It's silly to compare Froome to Contador when it comes to attacking. We saw what Froome did at last year's Vuelta when he needed to try something special to win but he couldn't be bothered and said they weren't going to try any "crazy tactics" (by which he meant anything beyond the usual no-risk stuff that works for him when he's the strongest).

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

It's silly to compare Froome to Contador when it comes to attacking. We saw what Froome did at last year's Vuelta when he needed to try something special to win but he couldn't be bothered and said they weren't going to try any "crazy tactics" (by which he meant anything beyond the usual no-risk stuff that works for him when he's the strongest).

Exactly. I've seen people write, "when Froome is losing he will try crazy stuff as well", but in 2014 and 2016 Vuelta he was losing and still waited until the final mountain of the final stage to try something.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

It's silly to compare Froome to Contador when it comes to attacking. We saw what Froome did at last year's Vuelta when he needed to try something special to win but he couldn't be bothered and said they weren't going to try any "crazy tactics" (by which he meant anything beyond the usual no-risk stuff that works for him when he's the strongest).

Exactly. I've seen people write, "when Froome is losing he will try crazy stuff as well", but in 2014 and 2016 Vuelta he was losing and still waited until the final mountain of the final stage to try something.

Attack on last climb isn't all the creative or high risk. Especially when you're the 2nd best climber in the race and you need to beat the best climber

The only funny thing Sky did last year was send men in the breakaway, which confused Movistar and Valverde got super angry at his teammates and had to yell a lot of stuff to restore order.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

It's silly to compare Froome to Contador when it comes to attacking. We saw what Froome did at last year's Vuelta when he needed to try something special to win but he couldn't be bothered and said they weren't going to try any "crazy tactics" (by which he meant anything beyond the usual no-risk stuff that works for him when he's the strongest).

Exactly. I've seen people write, "when Froome is losing he will try crazy stuff as well", but in 2014 and 2016 Vuelta he was losing and still waited until the final mountain of the final stage to try something.

Froome can be a great rider but only when he is either the clearly strongest and tries to completely destroy everyone (ax3, ventoux, lpsm) or in smaller races where not too much is at stake. What he did in this years dauphine to beat porte in the last stage was glorious. At the end he wasn't strong enough but the way he raced that day was superb. Too bad sky doesn't have the guts to do something like that in gt's

 

[Ariane]

[quote="IMA"

And what Pantano did today was a lack of respect towards Alberto. I don´t care wheter Contador gave his permission or not. That was ridiculous.

I actually rather agree. To me, Pantano has been an immense disappointment in this Vuelta; every time I have seen him he has disappeared or been hanging off the back of, albeit a group of reduced riders, but for actually helping Alberto? OK, he pulled for all of 4 secs the other day before magically evaporating once again, then suddenly he has the energy to get in the breakaway and sprint for the finish? Is he going to be of any help today one wonders.

 

[ruby]

i hope it is a great final racing stage, no crashes, just thrills

 

[LaFlorecita]

And what Pantano did today was a lack of respect towards Alberto. I don´t care wheter Contador gave his permission or not. That was ridiculous.

I actually rather agree. To me, Pantano has been an immense disappointment in this Vuelta; every time I have seen him he has disappeared or been hanging off the back of, albeit a group of reduced riders, but for actually helping Alberto? OK, he pulled for all of 4 secs the other day before magically evaporating once again, then suddenly he has the energy to get in the breakaway and sprint for the finish? Is he going to be of any help today one wonders.

well, obviously even yesterday Pantano wasn't among the 5 or 6 best climbers in the break, so I'm not surprised he wasn't of much help uphill. He just hasn't been able to deliver after his brilliant performance in Paris-Nice.

 

[Puccini]

The three final ports concentrated in 1 hour and 20 minutes ...
The climb to Angliru is 20 minutes ...
According to the road book.

 

[DNP-Old]

https://twitter.com/albertocontador/status/906477160055144448

This hit me right in the gut.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

https://twitter.com/albertocontador/status/906477160055144448

This hit me right in the gut.

Same for me. ***.

Also, 800 retweets in 5 minutes. What the hell.