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Allen Lim

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dbrower said:
So, there's nothing to gain by suing him, even supposing the suit was a winner. This goes for slander/libel by Team Lance, or by someone trying to get money for those who feel defrauded by the FFF.

Lawsuit can be a deterrent against future slander/libel. FL future wages can be garnished (I think). Sure FL can declare bankruptcy but that's more stress for FL (see point 1). Lawsuit can be a huge headache for FL -- stress, time, attorney fees. And when LA wins, maybe FL will even be forced to offer a public apology.

It cost LA very little to sue (relative to his wealth) and the non-monetary payoff is huge. If FL slandered you or me, then of course we're not going to shell out say $1M on a lawsuit. For LA, $1M is one day's work. So why not? He can then say he sued FL for slander and won.
 
La Vie Claire said:
Lawsuit can be a deterrent against future slander/libel. FL future wages can be garnished (I think). Sure FL can declare bankruptcy but that's more stress for FL (see point 1). Lawsuit can be a huge headache for FL -- stress, time, attorney fees. And when LA wins, maybe FL will even be forced to offer a public apology.

It cost LA very little to sue (relative to his wealth) and the non-monetary payoff is huge. If FL slandered you or me, then of course we're not going to shell out say $1M on a lawsuit. For LA, $1M is one day's work. So why not? He can then say he sued FL for slander and won.

In his e-mails FLands is basically begging Armstrong to sue him. He wants to be able to question former Postal riders and staff under oath, and there is no way that Armstrong wants that to happen.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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dbrower said:
Well, there's also the reason that he is judgment proof, having no money to sue for; and there's no point trying to get an injunction on speech, because most of the damage has been done, and if he speaks again, it will probably be under privilege.

So, there's nothing to gain by suing him, even supposing the suit was a winner. This goes for slander/libel by Team Lance, or by someone trying to get money for those who feel defrauded by the FFF.

And no, (a) I'm not reopening TBV; (b) I don't believe everything he says now (and didn't before); (c) am not sure I buy the no-T in 2006; (d) don't believe the contaminated blood theory because the concentrations in transfused blood wouldn't have been enough to skew the CIRs that much; (e) Don't yet have a conclusion about Lim (see (b) above), but the smoke is certainly gathering and the denial was not convincing; (f) remain shameless because my personal axe was always more procedural, and I wish what I'd seen of the case was more convincing to me; (g) particularly, if they'd caught him on the now-admitted oxygen-vector manipulation, which was (and could be) only insinuated; (h) remain flummoxed that despite the probabilities that they do "all dope", the testing is so far behind, and the procedure used to nail guys who roll snake eyes can only be justified because "they all dope", so it doesn't matter much what pretext is used; (i) am not sure how thrilled I am about Novitsky being involved, because I'm not all that impressed by the Bonds case; (j) am very glad I'm involved like a chicken in hams and eggs, rather than committed like the pig, because I don't race and my livelihood isn't tied up in the sport; (h) I've shown up briefly on some of the stomping grounds mainly so the told-you-so's can get their satisfaction and know that I read them and haven't vanished with my head hung in regret.

-dB a/k/a TBV

just, just, WOW.

I also think the O2 doping was more than just "insinuated". crit does not rise by 2% in a GT, sorry. Ask a hematologist.
 
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BroDeal said:
In his e-mails FLands is basically begging Armstrong to sue him. He wants to be able to question former Postal riders and staff under oath, and there is no way that Armstrong wants that to happen.
Bro, get it right, he is begging "Mr Armstrong" or Mr StrongArm to you :D
 
May 21, 2010
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I agree with Sparticus Rox. Floyds credibility is...ah...somewhat compromised. Getting back to the corroboration...and those refrigerated motorbike panniers. If it were on site then somebody somewhere has a picture of this motorbike. Just think of all those people milling around the team bus to get a glimpse of Lance and Co. and taking pictures to record the event. I do not think that the motorbike would in any way call attention to itself with USPS livery or URGENT: Blood doping Supplies-it probably looked like your average motorbike. Nor do I think that Johann and Lance would try an old-fashioned clandestine night drop (you never know how many French journos are lurking about outside). Landis said in one article said that he didn't have any pictures but if this bike existed there has to be a few pics somewhere.

Same goes for the Bus transfusion story. Doesn't anyone remember if the Postal Bus reported a breakdown? Or was late to the hotel on the day in question? Daniel Coyle was tagging along with Lance to write his book and OLN was making the "Lance Chronicles". Do they remember any stories about the team bus having to stop at the side of the road for an hour?
 
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fruit bars with eyes said:
sorry - i just caught up with this- my goodness what a shambles of a denial! no-one could watch that and be in any doubt - but i reckon he would squeal in a second if threatened with jail time and offered immunity ..

I watched this last week and thought the same thing and have just watched it again now. Surely he must have been prepped as to what to say and how to approach any questions....it's so bad....the question about the amount of doping Landis admitted and his answer is just so poor..why would he have even bothered to stop and talk to reporters...team management must be so filled with so much arrogance to think that this is passable....wow...I could confidently say that I could have stood there and lied better than him and it's not even me that's been accused!! If you're going to try and cover something up at least pretend to give a fcuk and put some sort of effort into it!!!!
 
Elagabalus said:
I agree with Sparticus Rox. Floyds credibility is...ah...somewhat compromised. Getting back to the corroboration...and those refrigerated motorbike panniers. If it were on site then somebody somewhere has a picture of this motorbike. Just think of all those people milling around the team bus to get a glimpse of Lance and Co. and taking pictures to record the event. I do not think that the motorbike would in any way call attention to itself with USPS livery or URGENT: Blood doping Supplies-it probably looked like your average motorbike. Nor do I think that Johann and Lance would try an old-fashioned clandestine night drop (you never know how many French journos are lurking about outside). Landis said in one article said that he didn't have any pictures but if this bike existed there has to be a few pics somewhere.

Same goes for the Bus transfusion story. Doesn't anyone remember if the Postal Bus reported a breakdown? Or was late to the hotel on the day in question? Daniel Coyle was tagging along with Lance to write his book and OLN was making the "Lance Chronicles". Do they remember any stories about the team bus having to stop at the side of the road for an hour?

Do you think Floyd is making a lot of it up?
 
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Elagabalus said:
Same goes for the Bus transfusion story. Doesn't anyone remember if the Postal Bus reported a breakdown? Or was late to the hotel on the day in question? Daniel Coyle was tagging along with Lance to write his book and OLN was making the "Lance Chronicles". Do they remember any stories about the team bus having to stop at the side of the road for an hour?

I was at the Tour that year and I remember it because we all laughed about it. I am pretty sure Velonews.com had a small paragraph and even a photo of it.
 
A

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You mean to tell me it wasn't those new Ice Suits of Lim's? Oh come on now....
 
Mar 13, 2009
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d.c. douglas said:
Yes, that will be the narrative driven home by Lance's apologists.

Because it is the truth.

Regardless of the truth, Floyd is turnin out to be 100% punk bi-atch.

He's just bothered that he didnt' get the same treatment as Basso/ Vino...et al, and he is broke. He needs to grow some stones, realize that he got to be a pro for a while and move on. Like Jan, my man!:
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/iDyH...est+Golf+Trophy+Party/gvc0H-hjguE/Jan+Ullrich
Jan+Ullrich
 
Black-Balled said:
Because it is the truth.

Regardless of the truth, Floyd is turnin out to be 100% punk bi-atch.

He's just bothered that he didnt' get the same treatment as Basso/ Vino...et al, and he is broke. He needs to grow some stones, realize that he got to be a pro for a while and move on. Like Jan, my man!:
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/iDyH...est+Golf+Trophy+Party/gvc0H-hjguE/Jan+Ullrich
Jan+Ullrich

Landis' situation is like a member of the mafia who gets caught. The mafia soldier fights the charges in court, loses, goes to prison, and keeps his mouth shut. When he is released he expects to go back to the family, but his old colleagues shun him and keep him out of the rackets. Loyalty cuts both ways. The sport broke the tacit agreement that keeps omerta working. It betrayed FLandis, so there is no obligation for Floyd to keep quiet.
 
BroDeal said:
Landis' situation is like a member of the mafia who gets caught. The mafia soldier fights the charges in court, loses, goes to prison, and keeps his mouth shut. When he is released he expects to go back to the family, but his old colleagues shun him and keep him out of the rackets. Loyalty cuts both ways. The sport broke the tacit agreement that keeps omerta working. It betrayed FLandis, so there is no reason for Floyd to keep quiet.
Wow. What a brilliant analogy.
 
BroDeal said:
Landis' situation is like a member of the mafia who gets caught. The mafia soldier fights the charges in court, loses, goes to prison, and keeps his mouth shut. When he is released he expects to go back to the family, but his old colleagues shun him and keep him out of the rackets. Loyalty cuts both ways. The sport broke the tacit agreement that keeps omerta working. It betrayed FLandis, so there is no reason for Floyd to keep quiet.

Very eloquently put.
 
BroDeal said:
Landis' situation is like a member of the mafia who gets caught. The mafia soldier fights the charges in court, loses, goes to prison, and keeps his mouth shut. When he is released he expects to go back to the family, but his old colleagues shun him and keep him out of the rackets. Loyalty cuts both ways. The sport broke the tacit agreement that keeps omerta working. It betrayed FLandis, so there is no reason for Floyd to keep quiet.

This is your best statement I have read.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Parts of Floyd's doping dissertation I believe are true. But Landis is crazy as an outhouse rat and I don't think much of this is going to stick unless he's able to get some help from, say, Hamilton. Like Hamilton, I believe Landis has some heavy issues relative to mental health. I think that if all this crashes on him he might just follow in the foot steps of his late father-in-law. He's on a publicity high at the moment: a born again hero. The valley that he has to walk by himself is down the road a piece. It's there that Floyd will have to face Floyd.
 
Sheltowee said:
Parts of Floyd's doping dissertation I believe are true. But Landis is crazy as an outhouse rat and I don't think much of this is going to stick unless he's able to get some help from, say, Hamilton. Like Hamilton, I believe Landis has some heavy issues relative to mental health. I think that if all this crashes on him he might just follow in the foot steps of his late father-in-law. He's on a publicity high at the moment: a born again hero. The valley that he has to walk by himself is down the road a piece. It's there that Floyd will have to face Floyd.

Should be an easier road to walk now that he's no longer lying to himself and others.

Regardless, his credibility is no longer at issue - the case is now in the hands of Federal Prosecutors who will unearth the truth by simply wielding the penalty of a felony charge for lying to a Federal Investigator.
 
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i agree with bro. so let's say that i am FL at that '06 tour and i know how the system works and by a careless mistake i was caught. i will declare myself inocent just in case i can make a donation to the UCI that can save me from being stripped from my achievement. i know how it has work for others but some how i am not as powerful as others. my team does not back me up and my old team might have had set me up. still i stick to my argument and you know what they say about repeating a lie, but this was one exeptions to the rule. i go kind of under doing small races here and there, but my hearth is set on going back to the big leagues. i start offering my services but it seems there is a plot against me (true or not). for this reason i to h-ll with it if i am not racing big races any more none of my enemies will.
 
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robertocarlos said:
i agree with bro. so let's say that i am FL at that '06 tour and i know how the system works and by a careless mistake i was caught. i will declare myself inocent just in case i can make a donation to the UCI that can save me from being stripped from my achievement. i know how it has work for others but some how i am not as powerful as others. my team does not back me up and my old team might have had set me up. still i stick to my argument and you know what they say about repeating a lie, but this was one exeptions to the rule. i go kind of under doing small races here and there, but my hearth is set on going back to the big leagues. i start offering my services but it seems there is a plot against me (true or not). for this reason i to h-ll with it if i am not racing big races any more none of my enemies will.

Aka: Punk biaaaaaatch! As they say, you made your bed now sleep in it. With the sleeping dog and its waking fleas!;)
 
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BroDeal said:
Landis' situation is like a member of the mafia who gets caught. The mafia soldier fights the charges in court, loses, goes to prison, and keeps his mouth shut. When he is released he expects to go back to the family, but his old colleagues shun him and keep him out of the rackets. Loyalty cuts both ways. The sport broke the tacit agreement that keeps omerta working. It betrayed FLandis, so there is no obligation for Floyd to keep quiet.

Fantastic. but who's the Godfather La or Hog?

What Landis does is exactly what happens in mafia/organised crime.....and the feds will quickly know who is telling the truth...take the blood passports, the levels never dropped when they should, why because of PEDs, easy peasy.....how does one maintain one's level of health in an endurance sport over three extremely arduous weeks, rice cakes and mountain water of course...
 
May 21, 2010
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Ferminal said:
Do you think Floyd is making a lot of it up?


No. Just want to corroborate the small stuff before we get to the "big stuff". Now then, does anybody have a photo of that motorbike and if so, would you happen to have photo showing the license plate number of same?
 

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Black-Balled said:
Aka: Punk biaaaaaatch! As they say, you made your bed now sleep in it. With the sleeping dog and its waking fleas!;)

Yeah, but doesn't that law hold true for everybody?

All of these frauds don't have to lie in that bed?
 
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