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Allen Lim

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vrusimov said:
...his credibility is only high because of his accusations against Armstrong and the readiness of those who want to believe it...but it's not just Armstrong that is being implicated...

..ask yourself if you gave $500 to his "Fairness Fund" and then found out all this crap after the fact...would you give him another $500?...or tell him go fly a kite...if he still insists on denying his confirmed positive while simultaneously unleashing these accusations, what then must one think...there's some serious dissonance going in the mind of Landis if that's the case...

...he wants to sleep better at night?...all he had to do was come clean after CAS rendered it's final verdict...he did'nt and instead mislead fans in a fruitless but profitable endeavor insofar as his defense was concerned...

...i wonder how many here believe that he's still innocent of doping while believing everything he's stated to the contrary...

...Landis has landed where he is by his own design and he's looking for some company...even if he provides a doping protocol it still is'nt proof of anything...the only way you'll get Armstrong is with proof...otherwise it's futile...the guy has MUCH too much to lose in a confession of doping if indeed he has...Floyd has made too many bad decisions and his credibility has suffered as a direct result...the narrative is taking shape already...a disgruntled, bitter, and vindictive storyteller...

Yes, that will be the narrative driven home by Lance's apologists.
 
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CPAvelo said:
Is Landis now the self-appointed anti-doping messiah?

No. He is amoral. There is no right, there is no wrong. There is only what he had / has to do to get what he wants. He says as much in an interview. He has no moral compass. This character flaw makes his a very pitiable (but not heroic) failure.
 

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sida-mot said:
He has no credability according to you. Read the threads here and then question yourself how many that thinks he speaks the truth. I'd say that his credibility is rather high.

But sure, go ahead, put on your tin foil hat, look for conspiracies, madmen and aliens. Bend the facts so it suits your reality.

His credibility is high???!! What planet are you on?

The 'facts' as you put them are that Landis is a Liar a cheat and a fraudster. If that somehow is a foundation for credibility I can't imagine how someone becomes uncredible.

The threads on here are 99.9% full of specualtion, uninformed bias, hysteria and opinion. That is because all of the commentry on these threads are based on the same limited information coupled with dubious links (in some cases) to past incomplete information.

Credibility will not be judged here by forum posters but by corroborating evidence or witnesses. In the absence of one or both of these Mr Landis has zero credibility as a witness and because of that, whether he is in fact telling the truth in his current assertions does not matter one bit in the absence of corroboration.
 

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d.c. douglas said:
But what does it say about people who don't care if there is a video of LA/JB&Co. at the EPO factory shooting up and then jumping on a trainer and breaking the strain gauges and still believe his/their denials?

I think it is more a case of wishful thinking on your part that anyone not caring. show me the video then I will care, I'm not interested in mass hysteria or idle specualtion.
 

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d.c. douglas said:
Yes, that will be the narrative driven home by Lance's apologists.

Of course it will be and it is a very good narrative and one that would be run by anyone who is accused by someone who has no credibility based solely on his testimony alone.

Funny how 99% of the posts are focussing on Armstrong when this is really about the wider drug problem in the sport.
 
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SpartacusRox said:
Funny how 99% of the posts are focussing on Armstrong when this is really about the wider drug problem in the sport.

Thank you!

The clinic is no place for Armstrong fanatics, but it is also a very frustrating place for those ambivilant about Armstrong while wanting a cleaner overall sport. These guys who are fixated on LA are as much about the problem while we debate on how to add our voice toward cleanup of pro cycling.
 
scribe said:
Thank you!

The clinic is no place for Armstrong fanatics, but it is also a very frustrating place for those ambivilant about Armstrong while wanting a cleaner overall sport. These guys who are fixated on LA are as much about the problem while we debate on how to add our voice toward cleanup of pro cycling.

I think the thing is Armstrong has come to embody all that is wrong with cycling, and his scalp is needed for the symbolism more than anything else. Like when Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. In the grand scheme of things, he's just one cyclist. But he's THE doper, the guy who dragged cycling right back to square 1 after it had a chance to renew itself post-Festina. The guy who has done more than anyone else to abuse the system, enforce Omerta and receive UCI protection while doing it. If they get Armstrong, then everyone else will have to take notice - no-one is safe any more. As long as Armstrong is out there, the others will think they're just playing the game. As long as Armstrong is out there, I can understand Landis's, Vino's etc bitterness at being the sacrificial lambs. Get Armstrong, we get closure on the EPO era.

Kimmage's description of him as the cancer was spot on. The others are simply metastases.

Not to mention that he does it so shamelessly. At least the others don't proclaim themselves as some kind of Jesus figure.
 

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SpartacusRox said:
His credibility is high???!! What planet are you on?

No you're right. LA's cred is high.;) So was John Gotti's.

SpartacusRox said:
The 'facts' as you put them are that Landis is a Liar a cheat and a fraudster. If that somehow is a foundation for credibility I can't imagine how someone becomes uncredible..

The fact is that your boy was average before cancer, superhuman after it, and he beat all the other cheats and frauds and apologized for them too.

SpartacusRox said:
The threads on here are 99.9% full of specualtion, uninformed bias, hysteria and opinion..

Festina didn't happen? Freiburg, Puerto, Riis, Telekom,, TH, Heras, Beltran?

How much did Cofidis pay Lance when he had cancer? They stiffed him, right?

SpartacusRox said:
That is because all of the commentry on these threads are based on the same limited information coupled with dubious links (in some cases) to past incomplete information...

You keep waiting for the complete information. Do you expect instant replay?

SpartacusRox said:
Credibility will not be judged here by forum posters but by corroborating evidence or witnesses. In the absence of one or both of these Mr Landis has zero credibility as a witness and because of that, whether he is in fact telling the truth in his current assertions does not matter one bit in the absence of corroboration.

Lots of corroboration and witnesses. Everything fits in nicely. Nice suspension of disbelief on your part though.

SpartacusRox said:
I think it is more a case of wishful thinking on your part that anyone not caring. show me the video then I will care, I'm not interested in mass hysteria or idle specualtion.

Everyone tapes their whole lives?:cool: I think there was tape of Ferrari's hand drawing blood in that Lance Chronicles bs. Uncredited though.

SpartacusRox said:
Of course it will be and it is a very good narrative and one that would be run by anyone who is accused by someone who has no credibility based solely on his testimony alone..

Problem is that even though Floyd is not credible, his testimony fits perfectly with everything that went before. You haven't been paying attention that it's not his testimony alone.

SpartacusRox said:
Funny how 99% of the posts are focussing on Armstrong when this is really about the wider drug problem in the sport.

No one cares about Triki Beltran being positive except a few on here. Armstrong is a huge NEWS story, not only sports story. Nice deflection though.
 

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SpartacusRox said:
Of course it will be and it is a very good narrative and one that would be run by anyone who is accused by someone who has no credibility based solely on his testimony alone.

Funny how 99% of the posts are focussing on Armstrong when this is really about the wider drug problem in the sport.

Thanks for the laugh Bagster - funny indeed how 99% of your posts are related to either dismissing Floyd or talking about Armstrong.
 
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simmspin said:
Completely Off Topic...

But at 1:03.....she certainly seems to be loving that car...

That's all....


With all those seat-numbed prostrates around cycling, the only hard knobs around are on doors
 
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The ex presidents award for best non-denial goes to....

Not Alan Lim. It's really a shame that Lim didn't deliver his http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Allen-Lim-addresses-allega]comments[/URL] with a little more style, or he would have won hands down. The script was perfection:

"Floyd Landis', you know, his admission speaks for itself. The only thing I know for certain is that I would never work for an athlete who I knew to be taking performance enhancing drugs."

Landis said Lim helped him with transfusions. Transfusions are doping, but strictly speaking, they aren't performance enhancing drugs.

*once more with feeling*
"I did not have sex with that woman"

Also note that he used the word admission, not allegation....
 

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buckwheat said:
No you're right. LA's cred is high.;) So was John Gotti's.



The fact is that your boy was average before cancer, superhuman after it, and he beat all the other cheats and frauds and apologized for them too.



Festina didn't happen? Freiburg, Puerto, Riis, Telekom,, TH, Heras, Beltran?

How much did Cofidis pay Lance when he had cancer? They stiffed him, right?



You keep waiting for the complete information. Do you expect instant replay?



Lots of corroboration and witnesses. Everything fits in nicely. Nice suspension of disbelief on your part though.



Everyone tapes their whole lives?:cool: I think there was tape of Ferrari's hand drawing blood in that Lance Chronicles bs. Uncredited though.



Problem is that even though Floyd is not credible, his testimony fits perfectly with everything that went before. You haven't been paying attention that it's not his testimony alone.



No one cares about Triki Beltran being positive except a few on here. Armstrong is a huge NEWS story, not only sports story. Nice deflection though.

To answer your more relevant comments:


Point one. There is no "my boy" my posts merely reflect the tenor of posts on the thread, which are far more about Armstrong being brought down than they are about the wider allegations. But I will say that if you deem a guy who was world champion at 21 'average' it says a lot about your objectivity.
Point 2. Armstrong and everybody else that Floyd names have higher credibility than he does in the absence of corroborating evidence. Disagree with that if you like but that is the reality.
Point Three. Festina, Peurto etc. I am not sure what your point is there, perhaps you could point me to where I said they didn't happen? The real point is that they had hard evidence in the form of blood bags, records, a drug mule and a number of other corroborating pieces of evidence. As I have said, at this stage there is none of that in this case. When/if there is evidence of photos, records, witnesses pertinent to THIS case I will be happy to ammend my view.

With reference to some of your less reasoned comments: Of course Armstrong being positive would be a huge story. At the moment thats all it is, a story. Guys on here are raving about Feds and charges, and salivating at the prospect of Armstrong 'going down' and in the next breath saying its not really about Armstrong its about the wider problem. It IS about the wider problem but the reality is that for most posters on here Armstrong is the problem and they are fixated on him.

I am not deflecting anything and I am not defending anybody, including Armstrong. I am merely stating that there needs to be a lot more evidence produced that a few emails and a letter from Floyd before any of the named people will start to lose much sleep over this. If I am defending anything, I am defending objectivity against the mass hysteria on these threads. I have seen no hard evidence as yet and people making immediate links to Festina and Peurto are ridiculous at this stage.
 

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spartacusrox said:
to answer your more relevant comments:


point one. There is no "my boy" my posts merely reflect the tenor of posts on the thread, which are far more about armstrong being brought down than they are about the wider allegations. But i will say that if you deem a guy who was world champion at 21 'average' it says a lot about your objectivity.
point 2. armstrong and everybody else that floyd names have higher credibility than he does in the absence of corroborating evidence. Disagree with that if you like but that is the reality.
point three. Festina, peurto etc. I am not sure what your point is there, perhaps you could point me to where i said they didn't happen? The real point is that they had hard evidence in the form of blood bags, records, a drug mule and a number of other corroborating pieces of evidence. As i have said, at this stage there is none of that in this case. When/if there is evidence of photos, records, witnesses pertinent to this case i will be happy to ammend my view.

With reference to some of your less reasoned comments: Of course armstrong being positive would be a huge story. At the moment thats all it is, a story. Guys on here are raving about feds and charges, and salivating at the prospect of armstrong 'going down' and in the next breath saying its not really about armstrong its about the wider problem. It is about the wider problem but the reality is that for most posters on here armstrong is the problem and they are fixated on him.

I am not deflecting anything and i am not defending anybody, including armstrong. I am merely stating that there needs to be a lot more evidence produced that a few emails and a letter from floyd before any of the named people will start to lose much sleep over this. If i am defending anything, i am defending objectivity against the mass hysteria on these threads. I have seen no hard evidence as yet and people making immediate links to festina and peurto are ridiculous at this stage.

+1000
******
 

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Dr. Maserati said:
Thanks for the laugh Bagster - funny indeed how 99% of your posts are related to either dismissing Floyd or talking about Armstrong.

Not sure what you are on about,

But if you can point me to where I have been unreasonable in my assessment of the situation I will be happy to discuss it with you.

I have never dismissed Floyd other than his credibility as an eye witness without corroboration. If you want to argue the alternative then fire away.

The posts I have replied to have themselves been about how the allegations will affect Armstrong so of course I have referenced him.

I am glad you find the situation amusing Maserati. I always do get the impression that your opinion is the be all and end all for you. Unfortunately this is a forum and others are entiltled to their opinion and they will sometimes differ from yours. Please don't be threatened by that and try not to always respond by mocking or non relevant asides.
 

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Ferminal said:
Don't forget his tirade against Ullrich.

Can't have your cake and eat it.

Ah Ferminal, once again struggling to keep on topic I see. I am not sure who you are referring to but it is not me. Even if it was I am not sure how Jan Ullrich comes into the discussion.

I always loved Jan...nice freckles:)
 

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SpartacusRox said:
Not sure what you are on about,

But if you can point me to where I have been unreasonable in my assessment of the situation I will be happy to discuss it with you.

I have never dismissed Floyd other than his credibility as an eye witness without corroboration. If you want to argue the alternative then fire away.

The posts I have replied to have themselves been about how the allegations will affect Armstrong so of course I have referenced him.

I am glad you find the situation amusing Maserati. I always do get the impression that your opinion is the be all and end all for you. Unfortunately this is a forum and others are entiltled to their opinion also and they will sometimes differ from yours. Please don't be threatened by that and try not to always respond by mocking or non relevant asides.

To be fair that is a better non denial denial then Lims.
 
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blackcat said:
http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Allen-Lim-addresses-allega

Lim in his Ray Ban wayfarers, looking a little under pressure. Struggling in the spotlight. Obvious lies.

EDIT: Thanks for that video link. I've been wondering what his reaction would be. There is no way someone with his training could not know - unless he is both utterly incompetent and idiotic. I think the latest issue of Bicycling magazine makes the excuse for Lim that "He was convinced he could explain Landis's performance numbers as being the result of training." Lim should stick to that excuse, since it's the only one he has. As it is, he looks maybe a little . . . um, unconvincing.

Really, these revelations by Landis call into question the peloton from top to bottom. No one escapes, Garmin included. Nor should they.
 
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drfunk000 said:
... According to a Bicycling magazine article, Lim is making ~$500,000 to consult with the RadioShack team ...

You'd think he'd be able to afford a decent pair of sunglasses then, eh? :D
 
Mr.DNA said:
If he is "unlikely to be sued," it is because the would-be plaintiffs don't want the truth revealed in open court.

If the allegations are lies, let's see some lawsuits fly and we'll see where the sh** sticks.

Well, there's also the reason that he is judgment proof, having no money to sue for; and there's no point trying to get an injunction on speech, because most of the damage has been done, and if he speaks again, it will probably be under privilege.

So, there's nothing to gain by suing him, even supposing the suit was a winner. This goes for slander/libel by Team Lance, or by someone trying to get money for those who feel defrauded by the FFF.

And no, (a) I'm not reopening TBV; (b) I don't believe everything he says now (and didn't before); (c) am not sure I buy the no-T in 2006; (d) don't believe the contaminated blood theory because the concentrations in transfused blood wouldn't have been enough to skew the CIRs that much; (e) Don't yet have a conclusion about Lim (see (b) above), but the smoke is certainly gathering and the denial was not convincing; (f) remain shameless because my personal axe was always more procedural, and I wish what I'd seen of the case was more convincing to me; (g) particularly, if they'd caught him on the now-admitted oxygen-vector manipulation, which was (and could be) only insinuated; (h) remain flummoxed that despite the probabilities that they do "all dope", the testing is so far behind, and the procedure used to nail guys who roll snake eyes can only be justified because "they all dope", so it doesn't matter much what pretext is used; (i) am not sure how thrilled I am about Novitsky being involved, because I'm not all that impressed by the Bonds case; (j) am very glad I'm involved like a chicken in hams and eggs, rather than committed like the pig, because I don't race and my livelihood isn't tied up in the sport; (h) I've shown up briefly on some of the stomping grounds mainly so the told-you-so's can get their satisfaction and know that I read them and haven't vanished with my head hung in regret.

-dB a/k/a TBV
 
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