Allen Lim

[BikeCentric]

No RR, you have attempted to make a case, and I have offered a rebuttal. Allen Lim will not be convicted based on anything you have written here.

If that cold dose of reality os too much for you, so be it - but keep you snide comments to yourself, they reflect only on you.

Pot. Kettle. Black. LOL you are hilarious!

Listen Nostradamus, there is an investigation into Lim going on right now! You cannot acquit until they find that the glove don't fit!

 

[BikeCentric]

What do you mean, withdrawn?

The Shack team pulled the release of the e-mails off their website. Probably after some of their "smarter" lawyers realized how bad the whole thing looked in that the e-mails actually made Landis look good and did not support the Armstrong claims at all.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

What do you mean, withdrawn?

I think he means not posted online anymore.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think you know a hematocrit from a 4 corner crit.

Ding Ding Ding.... We have a winner!

LMAO

 

[Colm.Murphy]

The Shack team pulled the release of the e-mails off their website. Probably after some of their "smarter" lawyers realized how bad the whole thing looked in that the e-mails actually made Landis look good and did not support the Armstrong claims at all.

I found them right quick. I would not be surprised if they'd been pulled but there they are:

http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/

They are a few pages deep but there none the less.

 

[gree0232]

No, that is just not the case, and you reveal your lack of knowledge further. IT CAN'T BE TESTED. THE TESTS DON'T WORK.

Catlin and Ashenden claim Landis have given them the "missing piece" of the puzzle, and even that does not mean they can now "test" for what goes on. They can't. And, btw, IV EPO is out of the system in like 2 hours, according to my very knowledgeable source. And microdosing is another misnomer, as via IV a rider can take full load doses, not some minute portion. This makes it easier/faster to restore blood lost from extraction and "game" the off-scores.

The people who are caught either make a mistake (Hamilton, Vino, Landis) or are in-experienced, or don't have the techniques down, or don't have the knowledgeable doctors.



Now you are just being intentionally obtuse. Not only has Floyd disclosed what he had been spending per year on his own program but it is not hard to calculate what it costs for a whole team. Andy Rihs is one of the richest men in Switzerland. BILLIONS of dollars. You think he can't find a way to hand off as much cash as could be needed to buy black-market drugs?

I am not trying to slam you, you just really have no idea. It is essentially organized crime. All this talk of trackable money... you must live a sheltered, low-exposure life, which is fine but when you apply your narrow view and experience into a problem so deep and complex, your views fail on their face.



What are you talking about? **** Pound is a buffoon. He agrees with you?

Hanging a guy on hematocrit? what are you talking about? I don't think you know a hematocrit from a 4 corner crit.



Listen, you clearly don't understand the world of professional cycling and the cultures where it is truly embraced. These people don't "step forward", they need a job, they need to feed their families. These are not "hobby jobs".

If you haven't noticed, Landis did step forward, after that world jettisoned him. They cast him out and the cost of carrying around what he knew, what previously could have been offset by the upside of having a job, was no longer worth it.

The pressure of being questioned by a fed agent will bring out the truth. Best thing that could have happened. Talk about fighting cancer, some time in the near future, the world of cycling will remove one very big malignant mass.

1. The tests do work. Can you explain why some top level riders like Valverde (whose stored blood had 'untestable' EPO in it), Schumacher, Piepoli, Mayo, Dekker, Sella, Duenas, Beltran, Moreno, Kohl, Colom, Nozal, Guerra, etc. etc.

And what team was Hamilton on when he popped? The same team as Landis? Access to the same billions apparently?

2. Another inside source huh? Well, let me be frank, I think anonymous inside sources are cowards. They can tell you whatever they want to tell you, like, "Gee, CERA cannot be tested." Whoops.

IN most systems of jurispridence you get to face your accusser. We don't relay on inside knowledge to gain a conviction, we rely on science.

Please do not through the 'inside' BS at me again. If a guy wants to contribute TO THE SYSTEM, let them do so. If a guy wants to pull a high school stunt and whisper something, then screw him.

3. I have been saying follow the money. The fact someone is rich does not mean that they think wasteing money on illegal activities is a foregone conclusion.

I have been making the exact same point that you are making, quite angrily, about following the money, about distribution, and supply systems, and about utilizing basic police procedures (for which a few of your pals thought I was a raving lunatic).

If the money is there, follow it. Then we can get to something a little more concrete than a smear campaign and 'inside' information.

4. Agh, so people in other lines of work are required to step forward when they see something immoral. I am certainly required to report anything immoral, and I believe my profession risks much more than just feeding a family. There are other jobs out there. Cyclists do things AFTER they retire.

Floyd stepped forward after he all but blackmailed everyone. Now, it is up to these insiders to step forward or not.

Now, would you care to offer something more concrete than, "just trust me."

Trust is something I am all out of. This is about standards. You want to take someone down, you step forward with the goods or stfu. There is more than one way to earn a living -- just ask Saul Raisin.

 

[gree0232]

Gree,

I think you need to step back, do about 10 years of reading (maybe less) and then re-engage with some bona-fide knowledge.

If you would like to defend Allen Lim, who is innocent until proven guilty, that is fine. The arguments by which you attempt to do so fail, based on your own void in the working of cycling, dope testing, cycle racing culture on the continent over the last 35 years, and probably the views built from your own life.

I don't want you to be mad, or discouraged, it is just that you so obviously lack an level of understanding that it provokes the reaction of those who do know and understand. You clearly are determined, so apply that determination into some time that will equip you with what will bring you more positive, useful discussion.

Peace.

Agh, the anonymous insider speaks again. We know, but we are silent - gotta get that next bowl of whatever ....

Congrats, you are the problem.

No one will be convicted based on, "just trust me." Welcome to reality.

Put a name and sworn statement and lets move beyiond the suspicion - or not - your choice.

 

[Publicus]

What do you mean, withdrawn?

I believe someone said they were no longer on the website.

 

[BikeCentric]

I found them right quick. I would not be surprised if they'd been pulled but there they are:

http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/

They are a few pages deep but there none the less.

Interesting. They HAD been pulled temporarily but clearly they're back now!

They were temporarily pulled shortly after they were released; maybe it was just that their site was getting too many hits and couldn't handle the load or something.

 

[gree0232]

Floyd didn't attempt to blackmail anyone. That's an unfounded allegation bandied about by Armstrong and Team Radio Shack (which was NOT substantiated by they emails (apparently now withdrawn)).

I hate to point out the obvious, but at this point ALL of Floyd's accussations are unfounded. Good for the goose and all.

 

[BikeCentric]

a laughable lolfest of silliness

You do know that Landis sent his e-mail directly to USADA in a direct attempt to inform "the system" and it was leaked to the press by parties unknown? No? LOL.

 

[BikeCentric]

I hate to point out the obvious, but at this point ALL of Floyd's accussations are unfounded. Good for the goose and all.

Wrong again, Ashenden and Catlin verified his claim that IV EPO clears the system in less than 6 hours; look it up. LOL you are hilarious! Ha ha ha.

 

[gree0232]

You do know that Landis sent his e-mail directly to USADA in a direct attempt to inform "the system" and it was leaked to the press by parties unknown? No? LOL.

Wow, when? You don't say. Wait, wasn't this exactly what severa of the accussed say that Landis was threatening to do for months? Go figure.

Allen Lim is definitely guilty now.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

1. The tests do work. Can you explain why some top level riders like Valverde (whose stored blood had 'untestable' EPO in it), Schumacher, Piepoli, Mayo, Dekker, Sella, Duenas, Beltran, Moreno, Kohl, Colom, Nozal, Guerra, etc. etc.

And what team was Hamilton on when he popped? The same team as Landis? Access to the same billions apparently?

2. Another inside source huh? Well, let me be frank, I think anonymous inside sources are cowards. They can tell you whatever they want to tell you, like, "Gee, CERA cannot be tested." Whoops.

IN most systems of jurispridence you get to face your accusser. We don't relay on inside knowledge to gain a conviction, we rely on science.

Please do not through the 'inside' BS at me again. If a guy wants to contribute TO THE SYSTEM, let them do so. If a guy wants to pull a high school stunt and whisper something, then screw him.

3. I have been saying follow the money. The fact someone is rich does not mean that they think wasteing money on illegal activities is a foregone conclusion.

I have been making the exact same point that you are making, quite angrily, about following the money, about distribution, and supply systems, and about utilizing basic police procedures (for which a few of your pals thought I was a raving lunatic).

If the money is there, follow it. Then we can get to something a little more concrete than a smear campaign and 'inside' information.

4. Agh, so people in other lines of work are required to step forward when they see something immoral. I am certainly required to report anything immoral, and I believe my profession risks much more than just feeding a family. There are other jobs out there. Cyclists do things AFTER they retire.

Floyd stepped forward after he all but blackmailed everyone. Now, it is up to these insiders to step forward or not.

Now, would you care to offer something more concrete than, "just trust me."

Trust is something I am all out of. This is about standards. You want to take someone down, you step forward with the goods or stfu. There is more than one way to earn a living -- just ask Saul Raisin.

For someone who clearly can type, you simply don't read.

The names you reference fall into one of the categories I list. Take your pick for the names you list.

Valverde did not expect his stored blood bag was going to be found, and clearly had his EPO-rich blood drawn when it would still have been detectable.

Funny you mention Mayo. It took 4 labs and almost a year to confirm his EPo positive. Quite the proven test, huh?

Your poor citation of "billions" is out of place. I said easy access to cash, from a billionaire, can buy quite a lot of black-market drugs. Read it again.

Hamilton mixed up his blood bag with his teammates.

Inside sources provide me with the clear understanding and knowledge, which you clearly lack. In fact, it is overtly shown now again.

You string together being rich with money wasting? What?

If a Billionaire want to win the Tour, and is openly willing to spend the money necessary to do so, then I can only point you to Andy Rihs. Calling that a waste is up to you.

Here you go and cite "morality" and this is where you've now stepped in it. You smug *** to think morality is tied to this in the least. This is not religion, this is not cheating on your wife or such, it is simply professional athletes who use medicine to attempt to stay pace with the other riders trying to put them out of work. Check you morals at the door. Or are you so confused between morals and ethics?

What did Floyd do (please, please show me) or say that you feels qualifies as blackmail? Lord, please show me.

Your density is only exceeded by your wordcount, as you think there is not serious evidence being proffered to the Feds in this situation. Since it is not "here" or in the press yet, does not mean it does not exist. It does. Many, many many heads will roll. Right into prison, as I understand it.

Please take some time to empty yours of these inane notions of morality and imaginary dope tests. Please.

 

[gree0232]

Wrong again, Ashenden and Catlin verified his claim that IV EPO clears the system in less than 6 hours; look it up. LOL you are hilarious! Ha ha ha.

Oh, so this is what Floyd was using? Interesting. Hilarious.

Dr. Lim should have known.

 

[BikeCentric]

Oh, so this is what Floyd was using? Interesting. Hilarious.

Dr. Lim should have known.

Yeah he probably would have known about bloodbags in the fridge, IV equipment, needles, boxes of EPO, etc., not to mention all the effects this regimen would have on Landis' power files which Lim was suppossed to be the expert on analyzing. LOL just give it up. You are going to continue to get owned until people get tired of responding to you.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Oh, so this is what Floyd was using? Interesting. Hilarious.

Dr. Lim should have known.

What he was using?

Mods, please end the "gree experiment". We have now trolled right past reasonable discussion and crossed into a place that is making this forum dumber.

 

[gree0232]

For someone who clearly can type, you simply don't read.

The names you reference fall into one of the categories I list. Take your pick for the names you list.

Valverde did not expect his stored blood bag was going to be found, and clearly had his EPO-rich blood drawn when it would still have been detectable.

Funny you mention Mayo. It took 4 labs and almost a year to confirm his EPo positive. Quite the proven test, huh?

Your poor citation of "billions" is out of place. I said easy access to cash, from a billionaire, can buy quite a lot of black-market drugs. Read it again.

Hamilton mixed up his blood bag with his teammates.

Inside sources provide me with the clear understanding and knowledge, which you clearly lack. In fact, it is overtly shown now again.

You string together being rich with money wasting? What?

If a Billionaire want to win the Tour, and is openly willing to spend the money necessary to do so, then I can only point you to Andy Rihs. Calling that a waste is up to you.

Here you go and cite "morality" and this is where you've now stepped in it. You smug *** to think morality is tied to this in the least. This is not religion, this is not cheating on your wife or such, it is simply professional athletes who use medicine to attempt to stay pace with the other riders trying to put them out of work. Check you morals at the door. Or are you so confused between morals and ethics?

What did Floyd do (please, please show me) or say that you feels qualifies as blackmail? Lord, please show me.

Your density is only exceeded by your wordcount, as you think there is not serious evidence being proffered to the Feds in this situation. Since it is not "here" or in the press yet, does not mean it does not exist. It does. Many, many many heads will roll. Right into prison, as I understand it.

Please take some time to empty yours of these inane notions of morality and imaginary dope tests. Please.

Oh, apparently he asked to ride with JB again, and was turned down.

And despite the angry rhetoric, which never convicted anyone either, you still rely on anonymous inside information. Congrats, we'll never get anyone that way.

So take your 'heroics' and shove them. Who do you think you are? I can make the exact same claims to 'inside' information, and guess what that means?

Tyler mixed up his blood bags with his team mates, but only he was nailed for that particular issue (not the team mates he mixed it up with) - and the doctor that was hired with access to millions or billions, but not really, must have made quite a stupid mistake .... twice.

What I can clearly see is that there are plenty of sports with doping issues, but there are none that have allowed anonyomous rumor and innuendo to nearly derail their sport.

If you have billions and want to win the Tour, that makes all accussations of illegal activity a foregone conclusion? Would you care to take that to WADA? Court?

I have had enough. You want to leak 'inside' information, you help no one and quite frankly leaking others information just puts you into someone else's play anyway.

It comes down to what can be proven, not suspected or rumored.

"Just trust me?" Floyd showed us exactly where that got us. And Dr. Lim as well.

 

[gree0232]

Yeah he probably would have known about bloodbags in the fridge, IV equipment, needles, boxes of EPO, etc., not to mention all the effects this regimen would have on Landis' power files which Lim was suppossed to be the expert on analyzing. LOL just give it up. You are going to continue to get owned until people get tired of responding to you.

So wheer are all these blood bags, refigerators, needles, boxes of EPO, etc. and teh money to purchase all these things in our modern era where everything is tracked?

You see the point?

Of course, not, it is better to just spread rumors about these things, and the complete inability to back it up with proof ... well, so what.

Again, ang to clarify, I really don;t care whether they did or did not dope. But I am tired of watching every cyclist suceed get clobbered with a doping accussation.

So Allen Lim it is. Another doping accussation, step up with the goods or shove it.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Oh, apparently he asked to ride with JB again, and was turned down.

And despite the angry rhetoric, which never convicted anyone either, you still rely on anonymous inside information. Congrats, we'll never get anyone that way.

So take your 'heroics' and shove them. Who do you think you are? I can make the exact same claims to 'inside' information, and guess what that means?

Tyler mixed up his blood bags with his team mates, but only he was nailed for that particular issue (not the team mates he mixed it up with) - and the doctor that was hired with access to millions or billions, but not really, must have made quite a stupid mistake .... twice.

What I can clearly see is that there are plenty of sports with doping issues, but there are none that have allowed anonyomous rumor and innuendo to nearly derail their sport.

If you have billions and want to win the Tour, that makes all accussations of illegal activity a foregone conclusion? Would you care to take that to WADA? Court?

I have had enough. You want to leak 'inside' information, you help no one and quite frankly leaking others information just puts you into someone else's play anyway.

It comes down to what can be proven, not suspected or rumored.

"Just trust me?" Floyd showed us exactly where that got us. And Dr. Lim as well.

Good luck in your life pal, if you are in the US armed services, I weep for the weakness of mind this represents.

Good luck with your project. I am sure Mr. Pound would agree with you.

 

[gree0232]

Good luck in your life pal, if you are in the US armed services, I weep for the weakness of mind this represents.

Good luck with your project. I am sure Mr. Pound would agree with you.

Well, good luck being an anonymous coward

 

[Hugh Januss]

So wheer are all these blood bags, refigerators, needles, boxes of EPO, etc. and teh money to purchase all these things in our modern era where everything is tracked?

You see the point?

Of course, not, it is better to just spread rumors about these things, and the complete inability to back it up with proof ... well, so what.

Again, ang to clarify, I really don;t care whether they did or did not dope. But I am tired of watching every cyclist suceed get clobbered with a doping accussation.

So Allen Lim it is. Another doping accussation, step up with the goods or shove it.

I noticed yesterday someone was trying to teach you how to spell accusation, still haven't gotten it right, huh. Reading, and learning from it is not your strong suit, is it?

 

[BikeCentric]

I noticed yesterday someone was trying to teach you how to spell accusation, still haven't gotten it right, huh. Reading, and learning from it is not your strong suit, is it?

All I can say is I sure am happy he's not an Officer. As long as we still have smart Officers telling folks like him what to do we should be okay.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

You all know what I'm going to say here, right?

Cool it with the personal stuff or face sanctions.

Susan

 

[Bicicleta]

You do know that Landis sent his e-mail directly to USADA in a direct attempt to inform "the system" and it was leaked to the press by parties unknown? No? LOL.

You know I have wondered about this leaked e-mail thing. It was leaked to many in the press - but per Neal Rogers at VeloNews they did not get a copy (its in tweets from him to Bonnie Ford back when this broke). I found this interesting given that Flandis hates Neal b/c of an unflattering article he wrote about FL last year. I know CN got a copy of the emails - so it struck me odd the the one publication that Floyd dislkes did not get a copy. Just an observation.

And to stay on topic re: Allen Lim: glad I don't have to eat his food.