Amstel Gold Race: April 21st, 2019

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

MVDP was massively overhyped for this race. He's nowhere near the strongest.

You went a little early here

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

Great to see Alaphilippe and Fuglsang going at it again. Really two of the riders of the season so far. I just wish Fuglsang would stop riding for second places.

Your wish was granted.

 

[Martinstranger]

Re: Re:

Calm yourselves.

Some dodgy time gap calls from the Dutch organisation combined with some friendly Dutch motos. And wtf was that bike throw from Simon Clarke? LOL hilarious.

All very suspicious.

Dodgy time gaps? Kwiatkowski got across to the leaders very quickly when he put in that last effort, which shows how slowly they were going.

Fuglsang interview - he was told by his team not to pull.

Instead he told them to deliver time gaps - they told him that Kwia was 20 seconds behind, at that moment he turned around and could tell them, that Kwia was 2 meters behind them.

He would have pulled a little more, if he knew the others were that close and then went for at spring with Alaphilippe.

 

[armchairclimber]

Romain Bardet calls it the Amstel Gold VDP Race on his Strava... with a boggled eyes emoji.

 

[argyllflyer]

Re: Re:

Calm yourselves.

Some dodgy time gap calls from the Dutch organisation combined with some friendly Dutch motos. And wtf was that bike throw from Simon Clarke? LOL hilarious.

All very suspicious.

Dodgy time gaps? Kwiatkowski got across to the leaders very quickly when he put in that last effort, which shows how slowly they were going.

Fuglsang interview - he was told by his team not to pull.

Instead he told them to deliver time gaps - they told him that Kwia was 20 seconds behind, at that moment he turned around and could tell them, that Kwia was 2 meters behind them.

He would have pulled a little more, if he knew the others were that close and then went for at spring with Alaphilippe.

There was a great shot with 1.5km to go (yellow signs) which showed how close they all were together, yet the on screen graphic suggested (iirc) gaps of 20/30 secs. Clearly not the case.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Calm yourselves.

Some dodgy time gap calls from the Dutch organisation combined with some friendly Dutch motos. And wtf was that bike throw from Simon Clarke? LOL hilarious.

All very suspicious.

Dodgy time gaps? Kwiatkowski got across to the leaders very quickly when he put in that last effort, which shows how slowly they were going.

Fuglsang interview - he was told by his team not to pull.

Instead he told them to deliver time gaps - they told him that Kwia was 20 seconds behind, at that moment he turned around and could tell them, that Kwia was 2 meters behind them.

He would have pulled a little more, if he knew the others were that close and then went for at spring with Alaphilippe.

Yeah, time gaps were definitely off. Pretty poor organisation again by the Dutch. They've got one big race to sort out all season; no mountains, good weather, nothing to interfere with the signal, and still they can't accurately give the riders the most basic of information.

 

[Peyote]

Re: Re:

Calm yourselves.

Some dodgy time gap calls from the Dutch organisation combined with some friendly Dutch motos. And wtf was that bike throw from Simon Clarke? LOL hilarious.

All very suspicious.

Dodgy time gaps? Kwiatkowski got across to the leaders very quickly when he put in that last effort, which shows how slowly they were going.

Fuglsang interview - he was told by his team not to pull.

Instead he told them to deliver time gaps - they told him that Kwia was 20 seconds behind, at that moment he turned around and could tell them, that Kwia was 2 meters behind them.

He would have pulled a little more, if he knew the others were that close and then went for at spring with Alaphilippe.

He asks for time difference? There are all sorts of delays between asking and getting.
Why didn't he look for himself? He could see him coming if Kwia was that close. They are all so helpless without communication. If i was in that situation i would probably look back every 15seconds.

 

[Winnen]

Re: Re:

Calm yourselves.

Some dodgy time gap calls from the Dutch organisation combined with some friendly Dutch motos. And wtf was that bike throw from Simon Clarke? LOL hilarious.

All very suspicious.

Dodgy time gaps? Kwiatkowski got across to the leaders very quickly when he put in that last effort, which shows how slowly they were going.

Fuglsang interview - he was told by his team not to pull.

Instead he told them to deliver time gaps - they told him that Kwia was 20 seconds behind, at that moment he turned around and could tell them, that Kwia was 2 meters behind them.

He would have pulled a little more, if he knew the others were that close and then went for at spring with Alaphilippe.

There was a great shot with 1.5km to go (yellow signs) which showed how close they all were together, yet the on screen graphic suggested (iirc) gaps of 20/30 secs. Clearly not the case.

At 1900 meters (there is a Sagan fan on the left side of the road) the gap between Ala/Fuglsang en Kwiat was 24 sec. At 1000 meters the gap is 4 seconds. So Kwiat, who allready used a lot of energy in the chase with Trentin closed 20 seconds in 900 meters. Therefor it is not unlikely to me that the group with vdPoel (he didn't do all the work himself, when they turn into the final straight he is fourth) could close even faster.

There was no magic here. It was Ala and Fuglsang (and propably their teamleaders) who made a tactical misjudgement. A big one. And yes, vd Poel delivered a phenomenal sprint. But that is nothing new. But by the way this was covered by TV it seemed to come from nowhere. All in all very entertaining I think.

 

[Strawberry_Jams]

the end was like Cav in TDF 2012 up against Sanchez Roche etc but with Cav attacking with 60 km to go, pulling on his own for 15km before the finish, oh and an extra 50km to ride.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

At 1900 meters (there is a Sagan fan on the left side of the road) the gap between Ala/Fuglsang en Kwiat was 24 sec. At 1000 meters the gap is 4 seconds. So Kwiat, who allready used a lot of energy in the chase with Trentin closed 20 seconds in 900 meters. Therefor it is not unlikely to me that the group with vdPoel (he didn't do all the work himself, when they turn into the final straight he is fourth) could close even faster.

There was no magic here. It was Ala and Fuglsang (and propably their teamleaders) who made a tactical misjudgement. A big one. And yes, vd Poel delivered a phenomenal sprint. But that is nothing new. But by the way this was covered by TV it seemed to come from nowhere. All in all very entertaining I think.

Exactly. MVDP was obviously very strong at the end, but his victory was mostly due to Alaphilippe and Fuglsang acting like idiots. If MVDP would've been extra-terrestrial during the chase, all the others in that group (Madouas, Lambrecht, etc.) wouldn't have been able to stay with him.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

There is no mystery with time gaps. None at all.

Rewatch the footage and get your stopwatch out. The 56s gap given at 2km to go was correct (between group 3 and Alaph/Fuglsang).
Watch the gear Alaphilippe was riding at that moment. One of the smallest cogs he had. They were not going anywhere faster than 30/35 kph.

Meanwhile, Vd Poel was riding absolutely flat out, probably in the region of 50km/h+

That's a 15 kph difference. Even if you have 1 minute it's gone very soon riding like that. It also showed on the GPS. And because the GPS has delay it looks weird with 1km/h to go. But the gaps at 3/2km were 100% correct.
Quick Step and Alaphilippe are sore losers for blaming the info. The info at 2km was correct. Alaphilippe needs to get a calculator if he doesn't understand why the gap came down so fast. He lost the race himself. It's 100% Alaphilippe's fault. Not even Fuglsang, he did the tactically logical thing. Alaphilippe as faster sprinter should have taken the responsibility and didn't. He didn't play for the win but he played not to lose. Vd Poel played to win.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

He lost the race himself. It's 100% Alaphilippe's fault. Not even Fuglsang, he did the tactically logical thing.

Working hard to get a seizable gap on the chasers, then sitting up and losing all the value of his previous work.

Responsibility in idiocy is 100% shared.

 

[Red Rick]

This is with tailwind correct?

There's no way Alaphilippe and Fuglsang get caught if they keep riding, but Alaphilippe knew he had to be careful or *** up his sprint cause he was super dead and Fuglsang thought he couldn't win otherwise.

Just glad Fuglsang got the podium though. Hope he gets 2nd in Liege after his old buddy Nibali

 

[Bardamu]

Re:

There is no mystery with time gaps. None at all.

Rewatch the footage and get your stopwatch out. The 56s gap given at 2km to go was correct (between group 3 and Alaph/Fuglsang).
Watch the gear Alaphilippe was riding at that moment. One of the smallest cogs he had. They were not going anywhere faster than 30/35 kph.

Meanwhile, Vd Poel was riding absolutely flat out, probably in the region of 50km/h+

That's a 15 kph difference. Even if you have 1 minute it's gone very soon riding like that. It also showed on the GPS. And because the GPS has delay it looks weird with 1km/h to go. But the gaps at 3/2km were 100% correct.
Quick Step and Alaphilippe are sore losers for blaming the info. The info at 2km was correct. Alaphilippe needs to get a calculator if he doesn't understand why the gap came down so fast. He lost the race himself. It's 100% Alaphilippe's fault. Not even Fuglsang, he did the tactically logical thing. Alaphilippe as faster sprinter should have taken the responsibility and didn't. He didn't play for the win but he played not to lose. Vd Poel played to win.

It's both their fault. If Fuglsang plays it correct the chasers don't come back while having Ala doing most of the work.
The rest is correct, the time gaps only seemed wrong at the very end when they gave Kwiato 15s when it was in fact 5ish, but the other moments the info was correct.
People also underestimate that on the narrow roads 3-1 km from the finish the road goes up and there was a headwind. If you play games like Ala/Jakob you'll get caught very quickly to a raging Mathieu (and Kwiato/the rest).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

He lost the race himself. It's 100% Alaphilippe's fault. Not even Fuglsang, he did the tactically logical thing.

Working hard to get a seizable gap on the chasers, then sitting up and losing all the value of his previous work.

Responsibility in idiocy is 100% shared.

Oh please stop it, you're such a sore and chauvinistic loser. Fuglsang did what he had to do, but Alaphilippe was dead and didn't believe he could win the sprint if he went faster with Fulgsang sucking his wheel. He learned his lesson from Strade - this was Alaphilippes races to lose.

 

[Bardamu]

Love Jakobs bluntness in the interview by the way. Half-frustrated, half-kidding and totally realistic. Hope he gets a big win this year. It can change our perspective on him, his podium places etc being seen in a different light.

 

[Salvarani]

Fuglsang did what he had to do. What he did was his only chance to win this.

Ala being the favorite, and better sprinter out of the two, has to take the lead and go until there is only 800-600m left. Then the cat and mouse game can begin. He should have trusted his ability to beat Fuglsang in the sprint even if he has to pull for the last 2km before the sprint. He threw it away because of pride? Not wanting to pull Fuglsang to the sprint that was gonna happen anyway? Foolish.

Cant wait for Fleche and LBL. Ala will be looking for revenge and redemption. The end of AGR aside... he looked like he still is in very good form. Hopefully this can just fuel the fire that he can use as motivation and not let it bother him.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

He lost the race himself. It's 100% Alaphilippe's fault. Not even Fuglsang, he did the tactically logical thing.

Working hard to get a seizable gap on the chasers, then sitting up and losing all the value of his previous work.

Responsibility in idiocy is 100% shared.

Oh please stop it, you're such a sore and chauvinistic loser. Fuglsang did what he had to do, but Alaphilippe was dead and didn't believe he could win the sprint if he went faster with Fulgsang sucking his wheel. He learned his lesson from Strade - this was Alaphilippes races to lose.

I’m not chauvinistic when it comes to Alaphilippe, as I dislike Patrick Lefevere.

They both shot themselves in the leg, end of story (that and Van der Poel doing a phenomenal last kilometer).

 

[Jungle Cycle]

this pretty much mimic how i felt...
https://twitter.com/reynjt/status/1120055670529757184
i really really wanted to be there...

 

[Winnen]

I just did a small check on these numbers and I think they are not correct. Ok, it is difficult because I don't see the group vdPoel at the 1Km mark but they can be seen coming out of the final corner. They are then 6 seconds behind Kwiat. (At 1,5 they were at 7 seconds) Because the 1 Km is just before the final corner I added a second, so a 7 sec differnce. Ala then finishes about 1 sec behind vd Poel, in total 8 seconds slower. Van der poel did his last km in 63 seconds (57,1 km/h) and Ala in 71 (50,7). Those numbers are more realistic. An average of 65 is very very fast.

Edit: according to strava the road is 0,8% downhill. For what it's worth.

 

[ciranda]

Re: Re:

He lost the race himself. It's 100% Alaphilippe's fault. Not even Fuglsang, he did the tactically logical thing.

Working hard to get a seizable gap on the chasers, then sitting up and losing all the value of his previous work.

Responsibility in idiocy is 100% shared.

Yeah. The two ahead were at fault for blowing it. You should always be super careful in situations like that. But crucially the time checks were not correct for whatever reason. Without that additional factor cycloxcross man would have raced for third at most.

 

[Winnen]

Re: Re:

He lost the race himself. It's 100% Alaphilippe's fault. Not even Fuglsang, he did the tactically logical thing.

Working hard to get a seizable gap on the chasers, then sitting up and losing all the value of his previous work.

Responsibility in idiocy is 100% shared.

Yeah. The two ahead were at fault for blowing it. You should always be super careful in situations like that. But crucially the time checks were not correct for whatever reason. Without that additional factor cycloxcross man would have raced for third at most.

Yes the time gaps were wrong. But not by much. At 1900 meter the GPS says 29 seconds, I used a stopwatch and came to 24. So a 5 second error. We all know that there is a margin in cycling timings, so I don't see it as a valid excuse. Kwiat managed to gain 20 seconds in 900 meters on them on his own. They gambled and lost.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

this pretty much mimic how i felt...
https://twitter.com/reynjt/status/1120055670529757184
i really really wanted to be there...

Thats awesome :lol:

 

[Kwibus]

Ps for the few that suggested dodgy dutch making sure vdp would win, if you watched the women race you should know better. Niewadonna had a moto infront of her which at times moved next to her blocking the wind, while vav Vleuten who was chasing had a moto behind her.

So they screwed the home rider