Andreas Kloden's Final Bid For Another Coveted Top 10 Tour Finish, 'Official' Thread

[gregrowlerson]

Yeah, he did. It was Klodi in his new hypostasis. But that climb was only about 2-3k long with really steep part on about 1k, if I recall correctly. Still very sceptical about his chances to get over Pampeago or Mortirolo on the best 3-4 ones' level or, at least, good enough to qualify for the victory.

So Klodi really sounds keen on the Giro does he? Wowie

The really toughest climbs tend to have been his biggest achillies heel (and crashing and getting injured and/or losing time). Like you say Airstream, his Pais Vasco win was great, and contained some excellent climbing, but the climbs were usually short. How will Klodi hang on on the Giau, Mortirolo, etc?

But I would actually be very excited to see him focus on it. Firstly it's something different, and it opens up his whole season to possibly ride the Vuelta too. And while the parcours doesn't suit him, at least the competition isn't as fierce as it will be in the TDF. I would respect Kloden more for taking on this challenge, but I struggle to understand how Johan would allow/encourage him to ride the Giro rather than one of the Schlecks.

 

[Nick C.]

but I struggle to understand how Johan would allow/encourage him to ride the Giro rather than one of the Schlecks.

Almost every interview Andy Schleck gives he makes it abundantly clear the only race he has any interest in is the Tour (and I guess Liege).


Is there a link or a quote regarding Klodi and the Giro. I thought this was Fuglsgang's (spelling bad too lazy and early to check) GT.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Almost every interview Andy Schleck gives he makes it abundantly clear the only race he has any interest in is the Tour (and I guess Liege).


Is there a link or a quote regarding Klodi and the Giro. I thought this was Fuglsgang's (spelling bad too lazy and early to check) GT.

On the 8th of January the below was reported (translated from Italian to English):

Planning is continuing seasonal RadioShack-Nissan in view of the Grand Tours, especially the Tour of Italy. Infatti, oltre a Frank Schleck , potrebbe esserci al via di Herning anche l'esperto Andreas Klöden . In fact, in addition to Frank Schleck , there may be at the start of the expert Andreas Klöden also Herning. Il 36enne tedesco ha svelato le sue intenzioni per il 2012 in un'intervista al portale Radsport-News . The 36-year old German unveiled his intentions for 2012 in an interview to the portal Radsport-News.

Klöden, reduce da un 2011 condizionato dai problemi alla schiena, ha dichiarato che comincerà la stagione, come da tradizione, in febbraio con la Volta ao Algarve aggiungendo però: "Forse farò il Giro prima del Tour de France." Klöden, a veteran of 2011 affected by back problems, said it will begin the season, as usual, in the Volta ao Algarve in February with but added: "Maybe I will do the Giro before the Tour de France."

Nonostante l'età, il tedesco ex T-Mobile non rinuncia infatti al sogno di vincere un grande giro: "Mi piacerebbe ancora vincere un giro di tre settimane" ha poi concluso. Despite his age, the former German T-Mobile does not give it to the dream of winning a great ride, "I would still like to win a space of three weeks," he concluded.

So not long until his season kicks off in Portugal then....

And I know that it's not his parcours, but I'm warming to the idea of him going for the Giro.

 

[airstream]

Why the hell does he need this Giro? Zero chance. Andreas Hates lengthy sections over 9-10%. He switches the gear off till minimum and tries to salvage desperately in the saddle at the expense of agilita without having required power.
I think, Bruyneel has already built up the team strategy for the Tour. Andy is a plan A, Klödi - plan B. All the rest are self-sacrificing domestiques. Fuglsang is given an honorable right to suffer for top-15 in the Giro.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Why the hell does he need this Giro? Zero chance. Andreas Hates lengthy sections over 9-10%. He switches the gear off till minimum and tries to salvage desperately in the saddle at the expense of agilita without having required power.
I think, Bruyneel has already built up the team strategy for the Tour. Andy is a plan A, Klödi - plan B. All the rest are self-sacrificing domestiques. Fuglsang is given an honorable right to suffer for top-15 in the Giro.

There is no plan B, IMO. Andy Schleck will be the only de facto leader.

The only problem is his delusional brother.

 

[staubsauger]

I'm remebering Frank Schleck winning the TdS in a Time Trial.......
Won't be suprised if he suddenly could time trial again this summer, even Horner & Brajkovic suddenly have been able to while riding for Bruyneel

 

[roundabout]

I am pretty sure Brajkovic could TT as an under 23 rider.

And I would send Fränk to the Tour without doing the Giro before but only if he agrees in writing to support Andy.

 

[Nick C.]

I'm remebering Frank Schleck winning the TdS in a Time Trial.......
Won't be suprised if he suddenly could time trial again this summer, even Horner & Brajkovic suddenly have been able to while riding for Bruyneel

I think that TDS it wasn't so much Frank winning in the TT as it was he lost it the least.

 

[maltiv]

I'm remebering Frank Schleck winning the TdS in a Time Trial.......
Won't be suprised if he suddenly could time trial again this summer, even Horner & Brajkovic suddenly have been able to while riding for Bruyneel

Brajkovic suddenly learned to TT while riding for Bruyneel...uhh, you're quite off there.

Hint: He was the u23 world time trial champion.

 

[Havetts]

Hint: He was the u23 world time trial champion.

So was Jurgen van den Broeck, so that doesnt say much.

 

[roundabout]

I think van den Broeck was a junior world champion so Brajkovic's title says slightly more.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

So was Jurgen van den Broeck, so that doesnt say much.

No, Van den Broeck was junior ITT champ.

Brajkovic was always a very good itt-er at the pro's as well straight from the start

 

[Havetts]

Ok fair enough. My mistake, sorry guys .

And I share the view of Brajkovic being a TTr first rather than a climber..

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If he's on form he can climb as well. But it was once stated by one of his DS that he can't hold peak form longer than 2 weeks so it's hard to get him to peak at exactly the right period.

Anyway I'm diverting, this is the Klöden thread after all. I don't think he can win the Giro, but top 5 in top form is not impossible.

 

[TheEnoculator]

I would love for Klodi to get top results. He had so much potential and yet he always ended up working for others: Ullrich, Armstrong and Contador, now the Schlecks. I hate the whole RadioShack team for the grandiosity they display, but Klodi is still a great guy who can still beat the younger cyclists.

 

[The Plediadian]

If he's on form he can climb as well. But it was once stated by one of his DS that he can't hold peak form longer than 2 weeks so it's hard to get him to peak at exactly the right period.

Anyway I'm diverting, this is the Klöden thread after all. I don't think he can win the Giro, but top 5 in top form is not impossible.

What is really a pity is Kloden was once MUCH BETTER contender in Il GIRO then many of the Giro winners in the last 10 years.
More about the politics and manipulation of sports, not just cycling,but on who wins, in professional sports.
Going back to the cycling media in 2001, one can see the stud, Kloden was.
A much more talented rider then Cunego, Scarponi, Garzelli. Sella, Ricco, Di Lucca.
The GIRO is an Italian race, and I have said to much.

 

[gregrowlerson]

What is really a pity is Kloden was once MUCH BETTER contender in Il GIRO then many of the Giro winners in the last 10 years.
More about the politics and manipulation of sports, not just cycling,but on who wins, in professional sports.
Going back to the cycling media in 2001, one can see the stud, Kloden was.
A much more talented rider then Cunego, Scarponi, Garzelli. Sella, Ricco, Di Lucca.
The GIRO is an Italian race, and I have said to much.

Well it's rather difficult to win a race (or be manipulated into not winning lol) if you don't start it, and Kloden has only started the Giro once; in 2008.

So what is your point?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What is really a pity is Kloden was once MUCH BETTER contender in Il GIRO then many of the Giro winners in the last 10 years.
More about the politics and manipulation of sports, not just cycling,but on who wins, in professional sports.
Going back to the cycling media in 2001, one can see the stud, Kloden was.
A much more talented rider then Cunego, Scarponi, Garzelli. Sella, Ricco, Di Lucca.
The GIRO is an Italian race, and I have said to much.

3 of the 6 riders you mention haven't won the Giro. Garzelli won back in 2000, when Klöden would have done spectacularly to have held his form from Paris-Nice and País Vasco all the way to the end of the Giro. Which just leaves Cunego (who won the Giro on an anomaly of a Giro route highly suited to him, and hasn't looked like replicating his 2004 ability anytime since) and di Luca.

 

[The Plediadian]

3 of the 6 riders you mention haven't won the Giro. Garzelli won back in 2000, when Klöden would have done spectacularly to have held his form from Paris-Nice and País Vasco all the way to the end of the Giro. Which just leaves Cunego (who won the Giro on an anomaly of a Giro route highly suited to him, and hasn't looked like replicating his 2004 ability anytime since) and di Luca.

The GIRO is an Italian race. It is popular for nationals win their national tours.
The same goes for Spain, Deutsch, Italia, USA, Latin America, and other countries.
Nationals will form combines for other nationals to win.
IMO Kloden has been held back,(likely so national of various countries can shine.)
Nothing against the Italians or any country. France and the smaller one week Spanish races, and Tirreno, seem to be the exception.
If one looks at national races, many top riders from other countries are omitted from the starting line-up.

 

[Eshnar]

The GIRO is an Italian race. It is popular for nationals win their national tours.
The same goes for Spain, Deutsch, Italia, USA, Latin America, and other countries.
Nationals will form combines for other nationals to win.
IMO Kloden has been held back,(likely so national of various countries can shine.)
Nothing against the Italians or any country. France and the smaller one week Spanish races, and Tirreno, seem to be the exception.
If one looks at national races, many top riders from other countries are omitted from the starting line-up.

Are you speaking about the same Giro which has been won by non-italians 3 times over the last 4 seasons?

 

[Nick C.]

The GIRO is an Italian race. It is popular for nationals win their national tours.
The same goes for Spain, Deutsch, Italia, USA, Latin America, and other countries.
Nationals will form combines for other nationals to win.
IMO Kloden has been held back,(likely so national of various countries can shine.)
Nothing against the Italians or any country. France and the smaller one week Spanish races, and Tirreno, seem to be the exception.
If one looks at national races, many top riders from other countries are omitted from the starting line-up.

I doubt other than the one year Savoldelli was on TMobile Kloden was on a team with an Italian GC contender for whom he wa sheld back. Also did T-Mobile ever go the the Giro other than in '01 and '06 when Ullrich used it for TDF training?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The GIRO is an Italian race. It is popular for nationals win their national tours.
The same goes for Spain, Deutsch, Italia, USA, Latin America, and other countries.
Nationals will form combines for other nationals to win.
IMO Kloden has been held back,(likely so national of various countries can shine.)
Nothing against the Italians or any country. France and the smaller one week Spanish races, and Tirreno, seem to be the exception.
If one looks at national races, many top riders from other countries are omitted from the starting line-up.

We're still hacked off about Robert Millar are we?

The Giro is an Italian race, but the guys you were talking about Klöden being better than, I note that three of them have never won the Giro, thus are irrelevant to the discussion (besides they all beat him on the one time he did enter), one won the Giro back in 2000 when Klöden had already been on top form for nearly 2 months and would likely not have had enough in the bag, and one won it in 2004 on a freakish course ideally suited to him and not to Klöden. Which just leaves 2007.

How many Giri this century could Klöden have won, feasibly? You think he'd have beaten Simoni on mountain-centric parcours? You think anybody would have beaten Basso in '06 or Contador in '11? He didn't win in 2008, and he'd have been pretty hard pushed to beat Menchov in 2009 too. Which just leaves the Savoldelli ones, di Luca in 2007 and Basso in 2010. You think he'd have won those four?

 

[The Plediadian]

Are you speaking about the same Giro which has been won by non-italians 3 times over the last 4 seasons?

The GIRO organizers choose who they want to ride their race.
Of course they will have Menchov(Rabo) and Contador is wanted by everyone. Rabo is a big sponsor of sport, and Menchov is only slightly stronger than his competition.
Take for instance Astana, Vinos' team, there for entertainment value, but not a threat to the Italian trade teams.
There isn't anything wrong with how the GIRO picks, it is their race. All races involve politics.

 

[The Plediadian]

We're still hacked off about Robert Millar are we?

The Giro is an Italian race, but the guys you were talking about Klöden being better than, I note that three of them have never won the Giro, thus are irrelevant to the discussion (besides they all beat him on the one time he did enter), one won the Giro back in 2000 when Klöden had already been on top form for nearly 2 months and would likely not have had enough in the bag, and one won it in 2004 on a freakish course ideally suited to him and not to Klöden. Which just leaves 2007.

How many Giri this century could Klöden have won, feasibly? You think he'd have beaten Simoni on mountain-centric parcours? You think anybody would have beaten Basso in '06 or Contador in '11? He didn't win in 2008, and he'd have been pretty hard pushed to beat Menchov in 2009 too. Which just leaves the Savoldelli ones, di Luca in 2007 and Basso in 2010. You think he'd have won those four?

Every rider mentioned in paragraph two had questionable values, including Salvoldelli. As for Klodi, who knows? I am sure Klodi beats Salvoldelli
No one beats Contador or Basso in the GIRO.
I think Klodi could have beaten Cunego, or Simoni (maybe) and also Di Luca, if he had been fair.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Every rider mentioned in paragraph two had questionable values, including Salvoldelli. As for Klodi, who knows? I am sure Klodi beats Salvoldelli
No one beats Contador or Basso in the GIRO.
I think Klodi could have beaten Cunego, or Simoni (maybe) and also Di Luca, if he had been fair.

Kloden has never been interested in the Giro. He has always been a Tour FIRST rider, just as his idol Ullrich was. I think that it's quite a joke that you say that Kloden could have beaten Di Luca in '07 "if he had been fair." Have you ever heard of the Freiburg Clinic?

As stated, Kloden could not have won in 2000 as he'd been on good early season form, though on this point, why did Klodi not ride the TDF that year? Anyway, 2001-03 were write offs with injuries and almost zero form, save for a decent effort in the '01 TDF, where he nevertheless showed that he was not more than a strong domestique.

By '04 he was a different beast, and would have had a good chance to beat Cunego if he'd had the same form from July in May. But that's a bit iffy, and anyway I think 2nd just ahead of Basso is better than winning that Giro regardless. In '05 he had no form until the TDF, and even though couldn't win a GT. In '06 he was injured in March. In '07 he could have contended but was again all about the Tour. In '09 maybe he could challenge Menchov, but it's a big maybe and he did alright in the Tour and benefitted from the TTT there.
In 2010 it's again all for the Tour (or all for Lance) and same with 2011, where he was unlucky with the bad injury.