Antoine Vayer

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Tbh this Stuyven guy won a big cycling race. That in itself warrants scepticism.

But he's barking at the wrong tree within that population lol.

It is hilarious to see the comparisons to other "populists" though.
 
Tbh this Stuyven guy won a big cycling race. That in itself warrants scepticism.

But he's barking at the wrong tree within that population lol.

It is hilarious to see the comparisons to other "populists" though.
WTF

Are you for real? Or are you trying to be funny? Stuyven was the biggest classic talent coming out of Belgian youth since Boonen. Predictions were that he would become a multiple Roubaix winner. His entire career he's been "not quite there yet" but last year (pre-covid!) He takes another big classic win. He wins San Remo on tactical merrits, but he's suspicious?

Maybe you only know of one populist but i assure you, history is littered with them. All presenting themselves as fighting the good fight while crying for attention, but the motives don't often match.
 
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Vayer is a pseudoscientist who usually works with normalized weight for his calculations, but then he posts the total watts instead of w/kg and acts like everyone weight the same. Not to mention his antics and clickbait oriented posts.

Talking about how it's concerning that you still have the same kind of people from the "dark ages" working as team doctors and DS in many teams in totally valid. It's also valid to ask why the climbing speeds have overall gone up since the start of the current pandemic and if the lack of OOC testing has anything to do with it.
But Vayer is just a total moron with zero class who seems to be unable to have a normal discussion.
 
Vayer is a pseudoscientist who usually works with normalized weight for his calculations, but then he posts the total watts instead of w/kg and acts like everyone weight the same. Not to mention his antics and clickbait oriented posts.
I am pretty sure Vayer "normalizes" the w/kg to a given weight because he can't maintain that both Indurain and Pantani were super-"notnormal", but Indurain produced 455 and Pantani 446 watts if Pantani was some 20 kilos lighter.

I agree with Johan Bruyneel, who pointed out a few weeks ago that the guy seems to get some satisfaction from the misfortune of others.
 
WTF

Are you for real? Or are you trying to be funny? Stuyven was the biggest classic talent coming out of Belgian youth since Boonen. Predictions were that he would become a multiple Roubaix winner. His entire career he's been "not quite there yet" but last year (pre-covid!) He takes another big classic win. He wins San Remo on tactical merrits, but he's suspicious?

Maybe you only know of one populist but i assure you, history is littered with them. All presenting themselves as fighting the good fight while crying for attention, but the motives don't often match.
What I say is there's no cyclist I'd stick my hand into the fire for, and I also clearly said that within that population Stuyven isn't near the most suspicious rider.

To address the other questions, I was mostly waiting for Godwins law to strike again. And you're reacting the exact way that populists want you to react. Vayer is a *** idiot. Ignore him.
 
What I say is there's no cyclist I'd stick my hand into the fire for, and I also clearly said that within that population Stuyven isn't near the most suspicious rider.

To address the other questions, I was mostly waiting for Godwins law to strike again. And you're reacting the exact way that populists want you to react. Vayer is a *** idiot. Ignore him.
Then i must have misunderstood your post. You basically said that "this Stuyven guy" (as if he's some nobody) winning a big race is suspicious. Now it seems like what you meant was "anybody winning any race, is suspicious". Which in turn could be extrapolated to "everyone is suspicious".

I'm not claiming Stuyven is guaranteed clean, but with his age, history, profile and especially the way in which he wins, this is about as far from suspicious as you will see a monument winner.

Yes, Vayer is an idiot, but the problem is that his lies and manipulations are taken as gospel by a very large crowd.
 
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I see he got an interview with the Süddeutsche, a rather respected newspaper in Germany, teased as "the renowned doping-hunter" Antoine Vayer. Ugh, well. (It's behind a pay wall, though, I don't know if anyone read it?)
 
I see he got an interview with the Süddeutsche, a rather respected newspaper in Germany, teased as "the renowned doping-hunter" Antoine Vayer. Ugh, well. (It's behind a pay wall, though, I don't know if anyone read it?)
The only interesting thing he states in the interview is that the slovenians are likely using fluorocarbon (synthetic haemoglobin) as it wouldn‘t trigger the biological passport and is virtually undetectable according to him.
Ow and he also states up to 90% of the current peloton could be clean. Suprising to say the least especially if you follow his twitter ;p
 
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The only interesting thing he states in the interview is that the slovenians are likely using fluorocarbon (synthetic haemoglobin) as it wouldn‘t trigger the biological passport and is virtually undetectable according to him.
Ow and he also states up to 90% of the current peloton could be clean. Suprising to say the least especially if you follow his twitter ;p
Interesting, so like oxygen vector doping, but with an artificial oxygen carrier that won't leave an impact on the bio-passport?
Isn't that stuff toxic? (inserte Ferrari's quote about Orange juice)
 
Interesting, so like oxygen vector doping, but with an artificial oxygen carrier that won't leave an impact on the bio-passport?
Isn't that stuff toxic? (inserte Ferrari's quote about Orange juice)
Because RBC production is mainly regulated by oxygen availability to the tissues, it is more likely than not that artificial hemoglobin would suppress the amount of reticulocytes and cause some disruption into OFFscore and into the numerous ABPS-values.

Aranesp, CERA, clenbuterol, recreational drugs and all the other totally "foreign" molecules are generally traceable in miniscule amounts, therefore I don't fully buy the claim that athletes infuse artificial hemoglobin expecting that there will be no detection method been developed in the following 7 or so years to retest their samples.
 
Because RBC production is mainly regulated by oxygen availability to the tissues, it is more likely than not that artificial hemoglobin would suppress the amount of reticulocytes and cause some disruption into OFFscore and into the numerous ABPS-values.

Aranesp, CERA, clenbuterol, recreational drugs and all the other totally "foreign" molecules are generally traceable in miniscule amounts, therefore I don't fully buy the claim that athletes infuse artificial hemoglobin expecting that there will be no detection method been developed in the following 7 or so years to retest their samples.
I'm not sure where this idea that PFCs are undetectable has come from? They are already detectable. Maybe not with any of the current screens, but there are several methods that could easily be approved to retest samples.
 
I'm not sure where this idea that PFCs are undetectable has come from? They are already detectable.
This is WADA, confirming their detectability:
6. WHAT ARE SYNTHETIC OXYGEN CARRIERS?
Synthetic oxygen carriers, such as haemoglobin based oxygen carriers (HBOCs) or perflurocarbons (PFCs), are purified proteins or chemicals having the ability to carry oxygen. Synthetic oxygen carriers appear useful for emergency therapeutic purposes when human blood is not available, the risk of blood infection is high or when there is not enough time to properly cross-match donated blood with a recipient. However, their misuse for doping purposes carries the risk of cardiovascular disease in addition to various serious side effects (e.g., stroke, myocardial infarction, embolism).

7. CAN SYNTHETIC OXYGEN CARRIERS BE DETECTED?
Yes. A test was implemented in 2004.
Apart from Giannetti, Emmanuel Magnien is the only rider I can think of 'firmly' linked to PFCs, with one of the judicial samples taken during the Festina raids in 1998 allegedly showing the presence of a PFC derivative(?), PFOB (perfluorooctyl bromide). Main source for this claim is the French doping directory Cyclisme Dopage.
 
I’ve seen an assay for perflubron referenced in an Ashenden document, but I’ve never seen it specifically linked to doping before. It’s used in imaging for contrast and is readily available, so I guess it makes sense.

There was an assay developed in 2003 for PFCs, I’m guessing that’s the one WADA use. I applied for an undergrad project researching PFCs for cancer treatments but didn’t get it.
 
The only interesting thing he states in the interview is that the slovenians are likely using fluorocarbon (synthetic haemoglobin) as it wouldn‘t trigger the biological passport and is virtually undetectable according to him.
Could you post a screengrab of that? He Tweeted it but when I challenged his argument by saying there was a test he deleted his Tweet....
 
Riders are asked if they will release their data. Usually they bat the question away, The reason the don't is the people ask that question are the journalists who won't go to proper experts who will tell them "I can't say anything from this" but will go to Vayer instead to get a 'suspicious' assessment from an attention seeking PE teacher who was used as a front for a doping team 25 years ago.
 
Comment from Robin Parisotto:

View: https://twitter.com/RobinParisotto1/status/1418032831075213314


WRT the alleged low glow time of HAEMOXYCarrier it's worth remembering that the ITA is not without tools to address this, at least partially. IC night-time testing has been on the menu for several years now. Also, ITA is not limited in number of times they can test you in a day and - per his own admission - they tested Pogačar twice before the start of at least one stage this year. It may still be something of a lottery but the ITA are holding more tickets than some allow.

I'll leave it to the experts - King Boonen, Aragon - to comment on HAEMOXYCarrier itself, that's outside my area of knowledge.
 
Riders are asked if they will release their data. Usually they bat the question away, The reason the don't is the people ask that question are the journalists who won't go to proper experts who will tell them "I can't say anything from this" but will go to Vayer instead to get a 'suspicious' assessment from an attention seeking PE teacher who was used as a front for a doping team 25 years ago.
That's a good summary of where I think the riders are. You would need a huge amount of meta-data to make a proper assessment of this data and it would take a very long time. It's also quite possible that proper assessment just wouldn't be possible and the likelihood of it proving doping is very low.

I saw this tweet and I think it also highlights how little understanding many people have of this data, even when they collect it for themselves. The numbers quoted here are actually pretty low and fall squarely in the cat3/cat2 range on Coggan's chart. 363w for ~5 minutes isn't anywhere near ridiculous for a 75kg rider and short efforts of over 800w (which will be out of corners) are also pretty easy. Good amateurs could comfortably finish in the pack based on these numbers. I could finish in the pack based on these numbers and I weigh under 70kg (but I'd be working much harder than Swift, obviously, and it would feel like a full on race for me whereas I'm sure it was a relatively easy pedal for him):

View: https://twitter.com/SamLStandsUp/status/1417621884552744961?s=20
 

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