Problem is a product (and drugs) cannot be deemed "safe" just like that.iceaxe said:I don't see Lance taking unsafe drugs after surviving cancer. If any of these drugs are safe, I'd probably take them myself. People in our army certainly should take them.
But is it the case in doping? Do the intended goal sometimes push you beyond the "controlled manner"? Is the "medical supervision" always proper? I guess I can't really shake the idea there may be some health hazard intended when products are diverted from their intended medical use, even when it is monitored by doctors (with dubious ethics).Alpe d'Huez said:Tell us why you think it's not safe?
EPO, Steroids, HGH, blood doping, amphetamines, all of them are safe if administered in a controlled manner with medical supervision.
Ahh, because of the reported negative effects of various of these products on people who've been taking them to increase sports performance ...Alpe d'Huez said:Tell us why you think it's not safe?
Have you considered that maybe god just hates you?beroepsrenner said:This is a good question and something I have pondered for many years. The simple answer is no.!! None are safe. This was my biggest concern when I made the choice to use PEDs in 1982. I was assured that as long as the dosages were kept to a minimum there was no problem. However, while competing in a madison race on the velodrome using amphetamines I passed out in the middle of an exchange. The doctor was mystified as to why my HR was still at 180bpm 15mins later. Steroids caused personality changes. I became agressive and short fused and was recently diagnosed with mild bipolar disorder. I have had 2 failed marriages and 2 years ago suffered a full cardiac arrest after a MTB ride and I am only 49. Luckily I know my body well and had called the paramedics before I went into arrest. They were able to revive me after being clinically dead for almost 2 mins. My then partner spilled the beans about my past to the cardiologist but he didnt see a direct link to the sustances described although they could not be ruled out as a contributing factor. 2 of my children were born with minor abnormalities. 1 has the 2nd and 3rd toe on both feet webbed and another has part of their wrist joint missing. I'm not sure if this could be attributed to HGH or not.
I agree, I have some experience with EPO, from the standpoint of my father having chemo for years. Where he was being treated they had great success with doing 3 weeks of chemo and then one week off for the body to recover.lean said:i would say that the the original poster's ability to safely use performance enhancing drug's of any kind outside the protective umbrella of qualified medical supervision is low. call it a hunch![]()
A large number of the banned performance enhancing drugs are quite legitimate pharmaceutical products, of course they are open to abuse but then again there also has to be a safe level of use. Do I think athletes keep to the safe limits? No. More must be better obviously.iceaxe said:Are any of the drugs safe?
Injecting vitamins, particularly B group and C was common during my time as a pro. Often people connected to the sport but not in the know would jump to the wrong conclusion when seeing syringes and start rumours. This is also the reason why sometimes syringes are seen to be disposed of in what appears to be sinister circumstances.fatandfast said:While in Belgium I was given b12 shots that made me feel like new.I had a teammate that raced for 9 months in Japan,he ate speed 4 or 5 days a week.Later before he was 28 he was in rehab,not because drugs are bad but because a bike racer should not be administering them to himself or others.I don't know if if Dr.f is bad but at least he is a doctor.I don't know the answers but I sure as hell have seen the problems.
LOL, just LOL.Johnny Colnago said:Have you considered that maybe god just hates you?
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Cool! Good post.beroepsrenner said:This is a good question and something I have pondered for many years. The simple answer is no.!! None are safe. This was my biggest concern when I made the choice to use PEDs in 1982. I was assured that as long as the dosages were kept to a minimum there was no problem. However, while competing in a madison race on the velodrome using amphetamines I passed out in the middle of an exchange. The doctor was mystified as to why my HR was still at 180bpm 15mins later. Steroids caused personality changes. I became agressive and short fused and was recently diagnosed with mild bipolar disorder. I have had 2 failed marriages and 2 years ago suffered a full cardiac arrest after a MTB ride and I am only 49. Luckily I know my body well and had called the paramedics before I went into arrest. They were able to revive me after being clinically dead for almost 2 mins. My then partner spilled the beans about my past to the cardiologist but he didnt see a direct link to the sustances described although they could not be ruled out as a contributing factor. 2 of my children were born with minor abnormalities. 1 has the 2nd and 3rd toe on both feet webbed and another has part of their wrist joint missing. I'm not sure if this could be attributed to HGH or not.
I'd never seen that particular picture of Pantani. Riccò seems happy to be sitting there.Johnny Colnago said:
this is exactly correct but probably too technical for most.red_explosions said:Any artificial thickening of the blood in healthy individuals is particularly dangerous, whether through EPO or auto/homologous transfusion. The blood, while it remains in the cardiovascular system, is specifically designed not to clot. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 as absolute bleeding and 10 as absolute clotting, the blood should naturally score about 3 or 4. This prevents the blood from 'sticking' to the vessel walls in healthy individuals. Only when trauma and blood loss occurs should a clotting process be initiated.
As soon as you start thickening the blood you are making it more difficult for the blood to flow smoothly through the cardiovascular system. An increased likelihood of thrombus formation and associated complications such as strokes, PEs, MIs etc is the result. Physiologically there is no way round this. Anyone who is boosting through artificial means should be on some form of anticoagulant therapy to limit the risks. Without this, boosting is pretty much lethal.
Brings up a good point. An MD will try to give as little of these medicines to patients as they can to arrive at the desired effect. This is to minimize abuse, side effects, dependancy, liability, etc. It's called the dose/response relationship and it is often completely ignored by athletes seeking a performance boost. Very dangerous.M Sport said:A large number of the banned performance enhancing drugs are quite legitimate pharmaceutical products, of course they are open to abuse but then again there also has to be a safe level of use. Do I think athletes keep to the safe limits? No. More must be better obviously.