- Apr 1, 2009
DJ Sprtsch said:
Thanks for the link.
Well, at least some of them lived to get some compensation. Not that it's much consolation.
DJ Sprtsch said:
Alpe d'Huez said:Don't completely blame them. The DDR had most of their athletes on a mandatory doping program where they had no choice, and in many instances the athletes had no idea what they were being doped with. Pretty good Frontline episode on PBS a couple of years ago about the women American swimmers going over to Germany and visiting some of the DDR women - many of whom have had serious health issues since then, and I believe one of them has since died. Pretty sad stuff. (Not to imply the Americans were squeaky clean, but at the time the American women weren't on steroids, or too much of anything. Now, God only knows.).
And it stands out even more if you compare the advances in men's 100m racing over the last 20 years. The WR was improved by how much? A quarter of a second?Alpe d'Huez said:Good call on Kratochvilova and Koch's records, Zoncolon.
I guess being an American I focus more on my own compatriots. To me FloJo stands out not only because it's painfully obvious to many that she was doped, but how she died young, and how many people cannot accept that her record was PED aided during an era of heavy doping and had to have been from "great talent" and wind aided with faulty equipment (which would make it the only time in history this was accepted), when it's simply not so, and as an American for me to see this it's almost painful; as embarrassing as Barry Bonds home run records. I watch it, and want to look away.
I know someone may come on here and argue with me, or chide me for speaking ill of the dead, but watch that race again. FloJo ran .16 faster than a doped Marion Jones (who ran wind aided +1.1), and .24 faster than Chris Arron (plus wind aided +2, the limit). A lot of people like to talk about advancement in training and nutrition. Well, Tori Edwards ran the fastest time in years at last year's Olympic Trials, and only 10.78. This is a stunning .29 slower than Joyner, and it was heavily wind aided (+1.8). A third of a second is a lifetime in 100m sprints.
Bodybuilding is far worse than cycling. At the national Belgian champs, 90% of the competitors even fled for the doping controlSnake8 said:Wondering if you all think other sports are as dirty as cycling? Why or why not?
If as some allege on here that cyclists are so sophisticated with their doping and that it is still rampant, and that they have essentially found ways to elude the tests, why wouldn't other athletes be doing the same things?
Lastly, are there any other sports that test as much as cycling?
Alpe d'Huez said:Eki tells a story about being a young Soviet rider and how right before they got on the airplane to head to Seoul for the 1988 Olympics, a General in the military spoke to the athletes and told them that the country was counting on them, and those that didn't perform well could expect to be drafted and sent to Afghanistan to fight in the then Soviet-Afghan war!
sherer said:thanks for filling me in. I read about the DDR and also comments on how Ullrich grew up with this too. At a young age everyone was measured etc and if you fit into the scientific formula then you were selected for a specific sport. After that you had to ride or train for that sport and if you did you got extra food for the family and stuff. You got vitamin injections and i'm sure a lot of these also included extras and stuff too. Taking all this from a young ages gets athletes into the system so by the time team doctors start doing this stuff they don't even question it
continue as-is. the sheer feeling of every one of them that you beat at any point would be brilliant in a real "f*ck you" kind of way.Alpe d'Huez said:I know you don't want to get bogged down in doping talk Archibald, and I'd like you to keep posting. But we've discussed many times the pertinant question: If you knew everyone around you were doping - or at least almost everyone. And your choice was either to dope too, with doctor's supervision, or go back to painting houses, what would you do?
BroDeal said:My favorite body builder never tested positive He is clean. If you want to accuse these fine specimens of athleticism of cheating then you should provide facts. You have none. You guys are just haters. And you are jealous you cannot get huge. Pro body builders are dedicated to fitness. They would never put drugs into their bodies. Never. Haters!
BroDeal said:My favorite body builder never tested positive He is clean...
sherer said:I think part of the problem is all the doping controls are run by the national associations. Why on earth would they want to ban their own top athletes?