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Are we psychologically ready for Merckx to ever not be the greatest?

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Its a good record and Ganna deservingly holds it. I'd like to watch Remco's attempt at it, to revive its prestige even more. Pog and Vingo are not the best on flat so probably no chance.
It is good. And I like it.

But someone was looking for an objective measurement of cycling performance. This one favors a certain kind of rider. I dont think we should penalize other types of riders in the discussion just because they dont have an objective measurement available to them
 
Maybe but its still just speculation. Achievements is a clear criterion and so is performance level (thats why records exist and fascinate people). Looking how much better uphill Vingo and Pogacar are than the rest in this super competitive modern era its clear that they are exceptionally good.
It looks that both of them are 2 greatest climbers ever
 
It is good. And I like it.

But someone was looking for an objective measurement of cycling performance. This one favors a certain kind of rider. I dont think we should penalize other types of riders in the discussion just because they dont have an objective measurement available to them

We still have a large database of climbing records to refer to. I'd like someone (even UCI) to organize vertical km or vertical hour championships in the form of annual standalone TT on various climbs (the latter is harder to organize due to very few climbs having 1800+ m of elevation gain). One would need sufficient promotion and money to attract our heroes. I'm curious if anybody would be able to break 30-minute barrier (2000 m/h of VAM) in a vertical km course. Before this Tour I would say "no" but Teddy on PdB had a 31-minute vertical km section so maybe...
 
Eddy is the GOAT, his achievements speak for themselves.

However, Teddy is the BOAT (best of all time, level-wise). His Giro-Tour double was the biggest demonstration of power ever seen in stage racing. Add to it his one-day races masterclass and you get the ultimate cyclist, level-wise.
Been saying this for ages and its so easy to see that Pogacar is the Boat and he is it by a huge margin aswell

Goat is subjective and give him 5 years he can be the goat too for most its just matter how you look on that the competition is not comparable when Eddy did it vs Pogacar. But as I said Goat is a subjective term and everyone can choose what they value most there's no right or wrong answers really as there cant be in different era when judging solely on results alone..

Boat however is based on facts and Pogacar is head and shoulders above the rest there.
Amen. The best by a big margin level-wise its not even close.

Anyone thinking anything else in terms of best lets just say pass me what your smoking.
 
Always ready here for any rider who contributes to lead the history pen.
However, I don't need someone to define who is the greatest, against which competitors through his era, and in which terrains, he was the greatest. It doesn't really bother me.

I watch bike races and take what comes, so I'm per-definition ready :)

And then I could stop here.

However, this thread ignites me.

It is both about the viewer's temperament and a trend as time goes by.
And not at least the trend's influence on how the viewer perceives a bike race.

When I started watching bike races, far, far away back in the analogue world, cycling was a bit more of a "here and now" thing, also by the commentators - not only a more measured use of language, but also the way of commenting, as a more descriptive commentary on the present. And even more pronounced with slow-news newspaper reports of races that took place the day before.

As a boy, I sporadically glanced lists of former race winners for an upcoming race and could set dreams in motion just because of the lists. Those dreams would be absolutely poor if it put blinders on me and I only thought about 1-2 riders and the rest as loosers. Couldn't be further away from my POV.

My clear experience at the time was that both TV commentators, radio commentators and newspapers left more up for the viewer and reader to assess.
And extremely rarely weave themselves into so-called "expert interpretations" or comparisons.

Heroes of bygone times were mentioned as curious tales.
But not with purpose of comparisons to different eras.

Hard for me to explain, but for me the world was different even though there was also idol worship back then.

Today, it's all turned upside down, where the urge to compare is glaring.

My own experience is that the media changed the method of covering cycling during the Lance dictatorship, mixed with the Internet becoming for the masses and even more so with SoMe.

Worst when the Tour coverage on TV2 Danmark back in 2004 acquired handball-commentator Thomas Kristensen as main commentator - and the cycling journalism dissapeared in favor of meaningless TikTok questions "How much have you suffered today? How tired are you? How happy are you?", which the entire channel made almost its DNA - everything had to be seen from almost below child height.

I simply cannot stand this simplistic approach. In my eyes it has no purpose. So I don't accept the premise of sticking one's nose in the dirt for one-sided focus.

For me, cycling is about making history while things are happening on the road, whether it's a Tour de France, a minor stage race, a monument, a semi-classic or a neo-classic. What I enjoy when I watch bike races is to feel the presence in the moment, to have all senses altert in the details.

Nothing could interest me less than the question of "ONCE FOR ALL" deciding who is the greatest. It shows disrespect for history in my eyes. Not disrespect to Merckx, but in general.

But as I wrote - I'm ready. Anytime :)
But frankly the question doesn't interest me.
Sorry.
 
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To make a meaningful comparison it should be possible to let Pogacar climb the Tourmalet on a bicycle of 1969: bigger weighth, steel frame, old-fashioned gears, brakes and tyres... Then they could compare the times.

Even then Pogacar would still have the advantage of the better nutrition, altitude camps etc.

Merckx himself says that comparing generations doesn't make sense. One can only beat the riders of his own generation.
 
To make a meaningful comparison it should be possible to let Pogacar climb the Tourmalet on a bicycle of 1969: bigger weighth, steel frame, old-fashioned gears, brakes and tyres... Then they could compare the times.

Even then Pogacar would still have the advantage of the better nutrition, altitude camps etc.

Merckx himself says that comparing generations doesn't make sense. One can only beat the riders of his own generation.

Teddy revealed his secret: bike technology and new diet (ancient champions used square wheels after all).

If you want to be as fast as Teddy invest in round wheels and eat more porridge!
 
  • Haha
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:rolleyes:
 
  • Wow
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Yesterday I watched a couple of GCN episodes on the topic of comparing new vs old(er) bikes - there's quite a few of them on yt. Well not really watched, just skipped to the results section. I didn't calculate their average difference but I'd say bikes from the 90s were probably somewhere around 20-30 seconds slower on a 10 minutes effort in that show for the same power output while guys also said that perceived effort for the same power output is also much bigger on the older bike due to suboptimal rider position, crank lengths and gear ratios.

I know this is being ridiculed in some other parts of this forum, but bikes actually ARE faster now. Maybe even 2 minutes faster on a climb like PdB. And yes, clothes are better and nutrition is better...
 
Yesterday I watched a couple of GCN episodes on the topic of comparing new vs old(er) bikes - there's quite a few of them on yt. Well not really watched, just skipped to the results section. I didn't calculate their average difference but I'd say bikes from the 90s were probably somewhere around 20-30 seconds slower on a 10 minutes effort in that show for the same power output while guys also said that perceived effort for the same power output is also much bigger on the older bike due to suboptimal rider position, crank lengths and gear ratios.

I know this is being ridiculed in some other parts of this forum, but bikes actually ARE faster now. Maybe even 2 minutes faster on a climb like PdB. And yes, clothes are better and nutrition is better...
Then, there is some bad calculations since the w/kg are high in 2024 than in the 90s with "less effort".