Armstrong and Santa

[rafifi]

This is my very first post to this board. Please be gentle. I am an avid cyclist but have never raced or competed in an organized fashion. I am using this board to educate myself on PED’s and cycling, something I am admittedly ignorant about. I am not excited about the news for various reasons. I believe some people just enjoy watching a train wreck. Others have been personally hurt in their careers by dopers and cheats.

For me it's kinda like Santa Claus. Through the years you start having doubts, clues that he might not be real. No matter how obvious the signs you continue to believe. You put these doubts aside because you want to believe the 'idea' of Santa Claus. Finally, one night you watch your parents putiing the packages under the tree. You did not welcome this day. You don't celebrate the discovery. Nor are you greatly saddened either. You forgive your parents for the lies, because you benefited from the deception. There is still the lingering "idea" of Santa but the magic is gone.

The question I have for those who understand PED’s and how they are used in cycling is this… Many times after stages in the Tour I noticed Lance was rushed off to the team trailer without a word to reporters or celebration. I figured this was because of the hostility of the French press. I even heard someone say this was because they sometimes urinate on themselves to save time and the cyclist need time to “clean up” before the podium. This always seemed very fishy to me the way he was whisked off. Can you give me any insight? I’m not drinking the Kool-Aid anymore.

 

[theswordsman]

Welcome. I'll let others answer your specific question, but this new ESPN story is the biggest bomb I've seen, especially considering Dr. Jakob Morkeberg's evaluation of Armstrong's blood values last year. I'll dig out that link - Shane Stokes did an excellent job of reporting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5222488

Here's the Morkeberg story

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome. I'll let others answer your specific question, but this new ESPN story is the biggest bomb I've seen,

For sheer performance Festina was better. That came so out of the blue and we had tv pictures of arrests and everything.

People kinda knew this one was coming, buts its great viewing nonetheless. Festina could really have benefited from wide internet coverage.

Ditto on the drug explanation. there are more knowledgable members.

 

[blackcat]

Leon Van Bon @ Philly

 

[theswordsman]

For sheer performance Festina was better. That came so out of the blue and we had tv pictures of arrests and everything.

People kinda knew this one was coming, buts its great viewing nonetheless. Festina could really have benefited from wide internet coverage.

I missed out on that one, as I was into a bunch of other sports at the time. But this one is massive enough. Having Ashenden, a guy on the board that evaluates passport results, hanging on every word is a big deal, and he can call the other eight and get things rolling.

Catlin, especially after being used by Armstrong in the press for months without being hired (and because of his dedication to the fight) should now be inspired to put a lot of energy into this, and to take a closer look at the two teams he works for.

If the scientists on the panel can keep the UCI from shackling them, a lot more 30 day letters will be sent, and a lot more guys will be willing to talk in exchange for leniency. Add in the Armstrong specific stuff, with the Federal government, the multi-million dollar lawsuit he "won", his endorsements, Livestrong, political ambitions, possible trafficking - it should be one Hell of a show. And I really want to see Bruyneel on camera as this goes down.

 

[blackcat]

perp walks

 

[Old School]

I'm just a regular, long time fan of cycling. Started with he La Vie Claire battles within the team...LeMond, Hinault, Hampsten. It always just caught me weird that LA went from a one day, stage rider, to all powerful...after cancer.

I've seen too much cancer in my life...to come back from cancer and be an all universe, sports superstar is just writing on the wall. To live a normal life after cancer is tough enough...but to become unbeatable in the toughest stage race in the world, is just not possible...without help.

 

[Kamikaze]

Old school, Lance use cancer to hide and you are using cancer to expose him? I know few people living normally after cancer specially when they caught them early and young.

theswordsman. Your wish may come true one day, seeing Bruyneel on tv. Reading all the names that he helped dope, including your beloved Contador with pictures and video to back it up. How would like that heh? It sure would be a great show.

 

[La Vie Claire]

I've seen too much cancer in my life...to come back from cancer and be an all universe, sports superstar is just writing on the wall. To live a normal life after cancer is tough enough...but to become unbeatable in the toughest stage race in the world, is just not possible...without help.

I take it that you don't believe in miracles.

 

[theswordsman]

And the Kami goes on the Ignore list.

 

[tubularglue]

I missed out on that one, as I was into a bunch of other sports at the time. But this one is massive enough. Having Ashenden, a guy on the board that evaluates passport results, hanging on every word is a big deal, and he can call the other eight and get things rolling.

Catlin, especially after being used by Armstrong in the press for months without being hired (and because of his dedication to the fight) should now be inspired to put a lot of energy into this, and to take a closer look at the two teams he works for.

If the scientists on the panel can keep the UCI from shackling them, a lot more 30 day letters will be sent, and a lot more guys will be willing to talk in exchange for leniency. Add in the Armstrong specific stuff, with the Federal government, the multi-million dollar lawsuit he "won", his endorsements, Livestrong, political ambitions, possible trafficking - it should be one Hell of a show. And I really want to see Bruyneel on camera as this goes down.

Catlin got paid by armstrong/Astana saying he did not take a sample/and then having taken one. The donation was made. what is that all about ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?fta=y - rehash

"Only one sample was taken, said Oliver Catlin, the chief executive of the Anti-Doping Sciences Institute, Don Catlin’s for-profit laboratory based near Los Angeles.

"without Catlin’s analyzing a single blood or urine sample from Armstrong. The program was too complex and too costly, Catlin said,

"Astana had paid him a “small contribution”

Catlin works with Slipstream and Columbia.

 

[Aus_Orca]

One of the best things about this whole situation is that when its all over and done with (with Lance busted) Lemond might actually be quiet. I like the guy and he was a great rider and champion who i hope never doped (otherwise he's a sanctimonious pr**k), but he shoots his mouth off far to much for my liking, so after hes done the whole i told you so for a while he can go back to being a guy who shows up at races, waves, has a picture taken, comments about the racing and the riders (who will win etc) and then leaves. Thats how it should be.

 

[Kamikaze]

LOL, Why put me on the ignore list?

If you are to believe Landis words on how Bruyneel taught him to dope and as you wish to have the feds figure how he used USPS, discovery, Astana money to get the EPO to provide to his riders, why do you wish to ignore the possibility of Bruyneel providing EPO to Contador?
Remember, Landis is only telling what he saw and who he was linked. Bruyneel can expand that list to riders when Landis wasn't around.
I guess we can ignore some of the the things we don't wish to hear. A true fanboy you are!

 

[Hillavoider]

OP, lance was whisked away cos he was probably sweating pure EPO out of his pores, apparantly where ever his sweat hit the road human hair would grow out of nothing but cement, he would need to be on a saline drip and under a shower with his mouth open immediately.

 

[Wallace]

Actually, anyone who is going to stand on the podium (yellow jersey wearers, other jersey wearers, stage winners, etc.) is immediately whisked away when they cross the finish line, so they can get cleaned up and change into a fresh kit--you don't think they stand up there and get kissed by the podium hotties in the same filthy gear they rode 200 km in, all covered in sweat and dirt and stinking?

Not to say that with Armstrong there weren't all sorts of other nefarious goings-on.

 

[Boeing]

This is my very first post to this board. Please be gentle. I am an avid cyclist but have never raced or competed in an organized fashion. I am using this board to educate myself on PED’s and cycling, something I am admittedly ignorant about. I am not excited about the news for various reasons. I believe some people just enjoy watching a train wreck. Others have been personally hurt in their careers by dopers and cheats.

For me it's kinda like Santa Claus. Through the years you start having doubts, clues that he might not be real. No matter how obvious the signs you continue to believe. You put these doubts aside because you want to believe the 'idea' of Santa Claus. Finally, one night you watch your parents putiing the packages under the tree. You did not welcome this day. You don't celebrate the discovery. Nor are you greatly saddened either. You forgive your parents for the lies, because you benefited from the deception. There is still the lingering "idea" of Santa but the magic is gone.

The question I have for those who understand PED’s and how they are used in cycling is this… Many times after stages in the Tour I noticed Lance was rushed off to the team trailer without a word to reporters or celebration. I figured this was because of the hostility of the French press. I even heard someone say this was because they sometimes urinate on themselves to save time and the cyclist need time to “clean up” before the podium. This always seemed very fishy to me the way he was whisked off. Can you give me any insight? I’m not drinking the Kool-Aid anymore.

Santa uses Reindeer Calves blood