Armstrong Vs Contador

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Biggest contador rival

  • Andreas Klöden

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Mar 4, 2010
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i'd like to see Pellizotti focus on GC for the tour. I think he could do quite well and maybe even stick with AC in the mountains.

main reason he didnt last year was because he'd worked so hard in giro that the only option in tour for him was to pound the breaks for the mountains classification. that usually meant there was nothing left for the final climbs which he didnt really need to win that comp.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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afpm90 said:
Tiago Machado is a neo-pro and he only has 24 years old. Do you really think is wise to him to do the Tour?
24 isn't young - that's why they have the white jersey competition. And from what I've read, just finishing a grand tour will give a rider an excellent boost in fitness that he can build on in the future, so it would be a big step in the development of a rider who has showed some talent.

Heck, Contador won two Tours by 26, and by that age he'd missed one chance to participate with the cavernoma, one for Operation Puerto, and one when Astana was being punished. And when would Machado ever have the chance to learn how it's all done than with JB and the Oldsters this year? :rolleyes:
 
Feb 14, 2010
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ferryman said:
Interesting nobody has mentioned Basso.
Basso was included in my "unnamed Liquigas rider". After rooting him on last year, I didn't want to jinx him again. When I'd gotten tired of being BloggingLance, but wanted to keep writing for a bit, I'd go to Basso's website and chart his SRM data in the blog in easy to read format. That died after the Giro, though. This year I performed my version of voodoo by leaving him off my Virtual Director Sportif Team but taking on Pellizotti and Nibali:cool:
 
theswordsman said:
24 isn't young - that's why they have the white jersey competition. And from what I've read, just finishing a grand tour will give a rider an excellent boost in fitness that he can build on in the future, so it would be a big step in the development of a rider who has showed some talent.

Heck, Contador won two Tours by 26, and by that age he'd missed one chance to participate with the cavernoma, one for Operation Puerto, and one when Astana was being punished. And when would Machado ever have the chance to learn how it's all done than with JB and the Oldsters this year? :rolleyes:
It's my understanding that giving a neo-pro the responsability of riding thinking in the GC at the Tour is damaging to his career. First, because it's his first year as a Pro-Tour rider. Second, because of the high intensity of the Tour de France. If he rides the Tour, he should take it easy, just learning what is like to ride at that high level.

As to Contador, he had some seasons at the top level in his legs and he also done the Tour in 2005, finishing 31th.http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=387&year=2005&all=1&current=0
He also began his Pro-Tour career earlier than Machado.
 
May 26, 2009
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afpm90 said:
It's my understanding that giving a neo-pro the responsability of riding thinking in the GC at the Tour is damaging to his career. First, because it's his first year as a Pro-Tour rider. Second, because of the high intensity of the Tour de France. If he rides the Tour, he should take it easy, just learning what is like to ride at that high level.

As to Contador, he had some seasons at the top level in his legs and he also done the Tour in 2005, finishing 31th.http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=387&year=2005&all=1&current=0
He also began his Pro-Tour career earlier than Machado.
Laurent Fignon won the Tour de France at his 1st attempt at the age of 22, I don't think age or Grand Tour experience has anything to do with it.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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afpm90 said:
It's my understanding that giving a neo-pro the responsability of riding thinking in the GC at the Tour is damaging to his career. First, because it's his first year as a Pro-Tour rider. Second, because of the high intensity of the Tour de France. If he rides the Tour, he should take it easy, just learning what is like to ride at that high level.
Do you have an example of a 24 year old rider who had his career damaged in that way? And would you feel the same way if he was the ninth rider on Vacansoleil at the Vuelta a Espana? Surely in three months a genius like Bruyneel, with help from some very veteran riders, could get him to the point where he'd be safe in the peloton?
 
Apr 17, 2009
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ferryman said:
Interesting nobody has mentioned Basso.
Clean Basso is a solid rider but not a GT winner. Is he capable of a top 10 finish? IMO yes, but nothing more, certainly not with AC and AS. In a Tour I'd have him as the 3rd rider on Liquigas.

Going primarily off his performance in last year's Giro he wasn't a top climber and he wasn't a top TTist, like how he was in his extraterrestrial Giro.
 
Apr 17, 2009
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kurtinsc said:
True... but Lance at P-N in 2005 was at the tail end after the prologue, and dropped out halfway through.

Then he (somehow) managed to get fit and in shape and win the Tour in July.
Yes, but he didn't have the same climbing ability in 2005 that he had in previous Tours. I thought he took a pretty conservative approach. His attack on the first mountain stage wasn't as violent as in all his previous Tours. He didn't win a stage until the last TT. I thought it was pretty boring (I was a fanboy at that time). IMO this was because of this poor start in addition to father time starting to catch up with him.

He really seemed to have checked out in 2005 and was just going through the motions. I get the same impression that this year is like 2005: too much living the celebrity life and not focusing on the Tour as he had from 1999-2004.
 
Jan 19, 2010
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Menchov, Evans, Sastre

For some reason, I remember Evans, Menchov and Sastre racing in the tour last year. Frank Schleck too. Of course Valverde was not there due to his doping suspension.

Can someone please remind me where LA finished relative to F. Schleck, Cadel Evans, Carlos Sastre, and Denis Menchov?

I'm just asking where they finished so that people can back up their statements that each of those riders is better than/more of a contender than LA.
 
Mar 27, 2010
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theswordsman said:
Do you have an example of a 24 year old rider who had his career damaged in that way? And would you feel the same way if he was the ninth rider on Vacansoleil at the Vuelta a Espana? Surely in three months a genius like Bruyneel, with help from some very veteran riders, could get him to the point where he'd be safe in the peloton?
Why is Bruyneel called a genius? especially with young talents, look at popovych and brajkovic, what is become of them? They were said to be future tour winners, but they are way off that path now. Okay, contador won at young age, but was that Bruyneels work? I don;t think so
 
Feb 14, 2010
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BYOP88 said:
Laurent Fignon won the Tour de France at his 1st attempt at the age of 22, I don't think age or Grand Tour experience has anything to do with it.
Every rider's physiology and characteristics are different; some reach their best level later in life, some earlier. It's as much as issue of where their mind is at that point in their life as where their body is.

Think of all the past white jersey winners at the Tour: some go on to greatness, some to dominance, and some just never make the same level on GC again and/or dwindle to support roles. How much of that is due to overstressing their body too soon, how much due to their body perhaps never being capable of that level of stress, how much due to inappropriate or inadequate mental focus, or how much is due to better riders coming behind them?? Don't know. What ifs cannot be answered until a time-machine is invented; in the meantime responsible trainers/ managers/ teams have to go by the best informatin available, which will always probably be a bit conservative because it is probably better to go for it a year later than possible than a year too early. There are always the exceptions to prove the "rule".
 
maikel said:
Why is Bruyneel called a genius? especially with young talents, look at popovych and brajkovic, what is become of them? They were said to be future tour winners, but they are way off that path now. Okay, contador won at young age, but was that Bruyneels work? I don;t think so
I believe that was intended as a flippant or sarcastic comment.
 
Mar 27, 2010
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Squares said:
For some reason, I remember Evans, Menchov and Sastre racing in the tour last year. Frank Schleck too. Of course Valverde was not there due to his doping suspension.

Can someone please remind me where LA finished relative to F. Schleck, Cadel Evans, Carlos Sastre, and Denis Menchov?

I'm just asking where they finished so that people can back up their statements that each of those riders is better than/more of a contender than LA.
And Denis Menchov, Carlos Sastre and LA also did the giro, do you remember where they finished there? A Menchov in topform wins it hands down with Armstrong in his top, his topform he can reach at this age that is
 
May 26, 2009
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cyclopeon said:
Every rider's physiology and characteristics are different; some reach their best level later in life, some earlier. It's as much as issue of where their mind is at that point in their life as where their body is.

Think of all the past white jersey winners at the Tour: some go on to greatness, some to dominance, and some just never make the same level on GC again and/or dwindle to support roles. How much of that is due to overstressing their body too soon, how much due to their body perhaps never being capable of that level of stress, how much due to inappropriate or inadequate mental focus, or how much is due to better riders coming behind them?? Don't know. What ifs cannot be answered until a time-machine is invented; in the meantime responsible trainers/ managers/ teams have to go by the best informatin available, which will always probably be a bit conservative because it is probably better to go for it a year later than possible than a year too early. There are always the exceptions to prove the "rule".
Yeah but riding the Tour at the age of 24 isn't going to kill him is it? But I think the Radioshack Tour roster was selected many months ago and barring injury or drug bust(not likely with their inside sources)will stay that way. I mean the old will need some help, have you seen how high some of those mountains are and there aren't alot of barriers along them.
 
Squares said:
For some reason, I remember Evans, Menchov and Sastre racing in the tour last year. Frank Schleck too. Of course Valverde was not there due to his doping suspension.

Can someone please remind me where LA finished relative to F. Schleck, Cadel Evans, Carlos Sastre, and Denis Menchov?

I'm just asking where they finished so that people can back up their statements that each of those riders is better than/more of a contender than LA.
Frank Schleck along with his brother, are the next two best climbers (of those with a reasonable top10 chance) after AC.

Cadel Evans has three GT podiums in three years, all less than 2minutes off the winner.

Carlos Sastre was the last person to win the TdF, aside from AC. A year which he "outclimbed" the Schleck's on Alpe D'Huez and produced a solid final TT. Won two tough stages and podium'ed in the '09 Giro.

Menchov beat a superCERA'ed Di Luca in the '09 Giro, sticking with him all the way in the mountains. This was the same Giro where Lance Armstrong struggled to stay with any of the mountain selections. TdF podium in '08 also.

So, I think that it's very reasonable to think that these have a much stronger chance of coming close to AC, than someone whose only result in 4 years is a distant 3rd last year in the TdF.

For me though, it's Klöden. Unfortunately this is purely hypothetical because we know that he will be a loyal servant for Tex. The same for Levi. On his day though I think Andreas is the best TT'er out of "the rest" and can climb as good if not better than the others. I put him a bit ahead of Levi, because I just think that '07 peak might be a bit hard to reach again.

I'm surprised the poll doesn't have Samuel or Valverde. Ok maybe we know Alejandro will not be there, but Sanchez has a good a chance as any of the others.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Squares said:
For some reason, I remember Evans, Menchov and Sastre racing in the tour last year. Frank Schleck too. Of course Valverde was not there due to his doping suspension.

Can someone please remind me where LA finished relative to F. Schleck, Cadel Evans, Carlos Sastre, and Denis Menchov?

I'm just asking where they finished so that people can back up their statements that each of those riders is better than/more of a contender than LA.
Let me ask you if you take out the itt then where will Mr Amrstrong finish. Tataically he won't have as many luxuries because no one was going to attack him because of Contador's presence. Cadel, Denis and Carlos had an unusual slump at the tour that year.

Why am i bothering with this idiot?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Polish said:
I voted Cadel.

I still remember that Giro many many years ago when he swiped the Maglia Rosa from the Italian Doper Brigade. After he could not keep up with them and had to relinquished the jersey - he was gracious and offered no excuse.
What year was that, I forget...
2002... on the Passo Coe. On that subject, does anyone have any vids of that stage or othe giro in 2002?
kurtinsc said:
I don't think Cadel's team will be any more of a hindrance then it was at Silence/Predictor-Lotto... so I don't think that hurts him much.

I think Cadel will be hindered because he'll be going for the Giro... I see his Tour (if BMC gets an invite) a lot like Menchov's last year.
It was the environment at lotto. I am unsure if i want CE to go for the double. Maybe the giro this year with possibly la vuelta and next year have a good shot at the tour. The team would of matured a bit more and become stronger.
 

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Aug 17, 2009
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I would say the only rival Contador has is to crash and be hurt. No one can touch him. If you think there is a rival for him well go ahead think that. I think not. Alberto will win what he chooses.
 
Feb 25, 2010
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The reason I didn't mention Valverde, Sanchez, Basso, Kreuziger, Nibalie, Pellizotti, Gesink etc... is becaus I wasn't talking about his biggest threat for TdF victory but about his biggest rival.
 
Jan 31, 2010
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AS and..... Armstrong will be his biggest rivals imo. You can say whatever you want, but this man always seems to suck throughout the year and is there in June and July. Yes hes an old chunk, and there are a lot of youngsters, but the fact is he isn't scared of them, but they are scared of him, better said of his charisma.

Maybe this is just some fantalk though, and he might be too old and fails completely, but unless he doesn't break another collarbone he'll probably be better this year. No TTT though, so better than a third spot will be out of the question :).
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Michielveedeebee said:
The reason I didn't mention Valverde, Sanchez, Basso, Kreuziger, Nibalie, Pellizotti, Gesink etc... is becaus I wasn't talking about his biggest threat for TdF victory but about his biggest rival.
Rival or threat...interesting distinction but even more reason to leave the other radioshack boys off.

Honestly the only "rival" I can see is Andy. He is the only guy that will look to take the fight to Alberto day in day out. Even though he didn't really have it last year, his approach was still aggressive.

Everyone else is dangerous, meaning only a threat if they get in a break, and some of the TTers if they are close by the time the TT rocks around, but i can't see anyone aggressively going toe to toe except Andy. Andy loses potency as Contador is probably more than happy going into a TT a minute or more down on him, though unlikely.

Basso could be a dark horse, I hear some people saying a clean Basso...what makes you think he's clean? Even if he was last year, maybe he won't be this year.
 

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