Armstrong Vs Contador

[Polish]

I voted Cadel.

I still remember that Giro many many years ago when he swiped the Maglia Rosa from the Italian Doper Brigade. After he could not keep up with them and had to relinquished the jersey - he was gracious and offered no excuse.
What year was that, I forget...

Anyway, if Alberto drops out of the TdF after allergies during Stage 1, and Lance drops out after a stage 2 squirt attack - Imagine how much more exciting the TdF would end up being!

Maybe the Tour Organization can pay Alberto and Lance to stay home.

They did it with Eddy and Alfredo after all....

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I forgot about Gesink and Wiggins in the poll, I don't count Nibali and Kreuziger in already as serious rivals for contador. They both are really talented and they have a good team but in a couple of years they'll be one of the best

 

[theswordsman]

I noticed Wiggins didn't make the list. I'm making a write-in vote for an unspecified member of Liquigas. Andy has had his training and racing too messed up with the knee problems, and even if that clears up immediately, I think his form will be off. Frank couldn't do it without Andy working for him at a hundred percent, and he's got the new marriage, an upcoming baby, and thoughts of putting together a new team as distractions. Sastre is so completely focused on the Giro that I think he'll be at his peak fitness level there, and would be at a lesser level for the Tour, if he decides he can race more than twice in 2010.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I forgot about Gesink and Wiggins in the poll, I don't count Nibali and Kreuziger in already as serious rivals for contador. They both are really talented and they have a good team but in a couple of years they'll be one of the best

Why is that?

 

[hfer07]

Really I think any chance of a real rival for AC is going to come from some young up-and-comer as AC gets older, we'll find out if Nibali and/or Kreuziger are the real deal this July and if not one of them them probably some other young pup that is just turning pro now perhaps.

exactly my perception- perhaps they need to work more on explosiveness, but they have the age & skills to elevate their game in to the next level.BTW every pro-cyclist asked about who can beat AC, the only answer is that no one "currently" can since he's one level above everyone.

 

[Publicus]

I noticed Wiggins didn't make the list. I'm making a write-in vote for an unspecified member of Liquigas. Andy has had his training and racing too messed up with the knee problems, and even if that clears up immediately, I think his form will be off. Frank couldn't do it without Andy working for him at a hundred percent, and he's got the new marriage, an upcoming baby, and thoughts of putting together a new team as distractions. Sastre is so completely focused on the Giro that I think he'll be at his peak fitness level there, and would be at a lesser level for the Tour, if he decides he can race more than twice in 2010.

All very good points.

 

[bianchigirl]

The fact that Machado won't be going to the TdF really tells you everything you need to know about RS for the TdF - the point being that AC has ridden as part of that team and knows the only tactic it has to employ. And, if RS aren't pulling in the mountains to give LA some kind of a chance at staying in the favourites group then their presence in the race really will be a waste of time. With Machado they had the option of at least panicking AC early on with a rider whose an unknown quantity who is capable of attacking and TTing. Now he knows he can ride off their pace and drop them for dead.

Add to that that AC will know exactly how Armstrong intends to prepare (they're ex-teammates after all) and the Spaniard continues to hold all the aces.

Roche has it best - contest? No contest
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3611/Stephen-Roche-Insight-Armstrong-vs-Contador-no-contest.aspx

 

[trompe le monde]

Uh, is indifference a valid answer?

I would have voted for Valverde, but since he will be spending two years on his couch atoning for his blood bag sins, it's not an option.

My only problem with this poll is that it is probably a question for next season. The gap, at least for me, between Contador and number two, which I think is Andy Schleck, is bigger than the gap between two and three. The problem with this is that those who can compete against Andy are probably on the downside of their career or just don't have what it takes to surpass him. I think for Andy to get a bit better he needs some of the others just a bit younger than him such as Kreuziger, Gesink, and maybe even Uran to actually convert mere promise into substance. My hope is that if one of these three really asserts himself in either the Giro or the Vuelta than the competition to threaten Contador's crown will be a bit more spirited in 2011. With more legitimate contenders, I don't see either Evans or Wiggins as contenders, Contador will have to work harder to obtain the yellow than merely trying to counter what Andy Schleck is trying to do.

 

[Publicus]

The fact that Machado won't be going to the TdF really tells you everything you need to know about RS for the TdF - the point being that AC has ridden as part of that team and knows the only tactic it has to employ. And, if RS aren't pulling in the mountains to give LA some kind of a chance at staying in the favourites group then their presence in the race really will be a waste of time. With Machado they had the option of at least panicking AC early on with a rider whose an unknown quantity who is capable of attacking and TTing. Now he knows he can ride off their pace and drop them for dead.

Add to that that AC will know exactly how Armstrong intends to prepare (they're ex-teammates after all) and the Spaniard continues to hold all the aces.

Roche has it best - contest? No contest
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3611/Stephen-Roche-Insight-Armstrong-vs-Contador-no-contest.aspx

Great read. He really nailed it.

 

[maikel]

Uh, is indifference a valid answer?

I would have voted for Valverde, but since he will be spending two years on his couch atoning for his blood bag sins, it's not an option.

My only problem with this poll is that it is probably a question for next season. The gap, at least for me, between Contador and number two, which I think is Andy Schleck, is bigger than the gap between two and three. The problem with this is that those who can compete against Andy are probably on the downside of their career or just don't have what it takes to surpass him. I think for Andy to get a bit better he needs some of the others just a bit younger than him such as Kreuziger, Gesink, and maybe even Uran to actually convert mere promise into substance. My hope is that if one of these three really asserts himself in either the Giro or the Vuelta than the competition to threaten Contador's crown will be a bit more spirited in 2011. With more legitimate contenders, I don't see either Evans or Wiggins as contenders, Contador will have to work harder to obtain the yellow than merely trying to counter what Andy Schleck is trying to do.

I think you haven't seen Gesink in last years Vuelta I suppose, if it wasn't for his crash, he would have made the podium for sure

 

[trompe le monde]

I think you haven't seen Gesink in last years Vuelta I suppose, if it wasn't for his crash, he would have made the podium for sure

No I did not, I missed the Vuelta. I did remember Gesink breaking his wrist in Le Tour which forced him to abandon, so maybe my idea of how close Gesink is to threatening an overall position in a grand tour is slightly skewed.

 

[maikel]

No I did not, I missed the Vuelta. I did remember Gesink breaking his wrist in Le Tour which forced him to abandon, so maybe my idea of how close Gesink is to threatening an overall position in a grand tour is slightly skewed.

He was in second position for a time at only 20-30 seconds I thought, and even attacked on the steepest mountains of the race and it looked like he dropped Valverde there but Valverder returned and a couple of stages later Gesink crashed because a rider in front of him felt. But with Mosquera he was the best climber of the race at only 23 years of age

 

[spanky wanderlust]

oh good. another armstrong v conta thread.

it's always fun to see if anyone can bring anything new to the table here. actually there's been some decent stuff so far. right on, guys!

i only chime in because i was annoyed that there were no italians (liquigas, anyone?) but numerous RS guys in the poll!? sometimes i wonder if we are all following the same sport.

i was also annoyed that alberto contador has not been suggested as conta's biggest rival. seriously, anything can happen. off the top of my head: bad day, ill-timed mechanical, injury, illness, crash out, pereiro-style breakaway, doping scandal, mis-timed preparation, complete meltdown of astana domestiques.

assuming he avoids all of this, pelizotti, basso, nibali, even wiggins or van de velde are much more deserving of being in the polls than others. cadel, sastre? aren't these guys riding the giro? kloden and levi? wrong team, wrong year for these guys. lance? a better bet than some on the list, but not a serious threat.

the schlecks are the big wild cards here. andy's preparation is not going well right now i don't think. and bianchigirl's assessment of frank is great. the tea leaves are inconclusive.

menchov is a good bet for being in the mix.

imho, conta has a much bigger chance of beating himself this year than anyone else.

 

[cyclopeon]

I wanted to vote for a grain of pollen but it wasn't on the list, and then I realized your were asking for the biggest rival not the biggest threat to Contador So I voted for Andy Schleck with my fingers crossed that he gets over his propulsion issues in time to have proper form. second choice would be someone from the Liquigas outfit but I too can't pick a name out, I just don't know enough about them. I'd like to say Evans in third spot and then I don't see anyone else.

 

[cyclopeon]

oh good. another armstrong v conta thread.

it's always fun to see if anyone can bring anything new to the table here. actually there's been some decent stuff so far. right on, guys!

i only chime in because i was annoyed that there were no italians (liquigas, anyone?) but numerous RS guys in the poll!? sometimes i wonder if we are all following the same sport.

i was also annoyed that alberto contador has not been suggested as conta's biggest rival. seriously, anything can happen. off the top of my head: bad day, ill-timed mechanical, injury, illness, crash out, pereiro-style breakaway, doping scandal, mis-timed preparation, complete meltdown of astana domestiques.
assuming he avoids all of this, pelizotti, basso, nibali, even wiggins or van de velde are much more deserving of being in the polls than others. cadel, sastre? aren't these guys riding the giro? kloden and levi? wrong team, wrong year for these guys. lance? a better bet than some on the list, but not a serious threat.

the schlecks are the big wild cards here. andy's preparation is not going well right now i don't think. and bianchigirl's assessment of frank is great. the tea leaves are inconclusive.

menchov is a good bet for being in the mix.

imho, conta has a much bigger chance of beating himself this year than anyone else.

Good points, but the bolded part is more about luck than Contador himself.

 

[maikel]

Why is evans so highly rated by most here, when it matters in the mountains he will not be able to follow the best, that has always been the case, and in the TT's he isn't going to gain time over Contador or Menchov, or even wiggins if you count him as a favourite

 

[Publicus]

oh good. another armstrong v conta thread.

it's always fun to see if anyone can bring anything new to the table here. actually there's been some decent stuff so far. right on, guys!

i only chime in because i was annoyed that there were no italians (liquigas, anyone?) but numerous RS guys in the poll!? sometimes i wonder if we are all following the same sport.

i was also annoyed that alberto contador has not been suggested as conta's biggest rival. seriously, anything can happen. off the top of my head: bad day, ill-timed mechanical, injury, illness, crash out, pereiro-style breakaway, doping scandal, mis-timed preparation, complete meltdown of astana domestiques.

assuming he avoids all of this, pelizotti, basso, nibali, even wiggins or van de velde are much more deserving of being in the polls than others. cadel, sastre? aren't these guys riding the giro? kloden and levi? wrong team, wrong year for these guys. lance? a better bet than some on the list, but not a serious threat.

the schlecks are the big wild cards here. andy's preparation is not going well right now i don't think. and bianchigirl's assessment of frank is great. the tea leaves are inconclusive.

menchov is a good bet for being in the mix.

imho, conta has a much bigger chance of beating himself this year than anyone else.

Nice post.

 

[python]

oh good. another armstrong v conta thread.

it's always fun to see if anyone can bring anything new to the table here. actually there's been some decent stuff so far. right on, guys!

i only chime in because i was annoyed that there were no italians (liquigas, anyone?) but numerous RS guys in the poll!? sometimes i wonder if we are all following the same sport.

i was also annoyed that alberto contador has not been suggested as conta's biggest rival. seriously, anything can happen. off the top of my head: bad day, ill-timed mechanical, injury, illness, crash out, pereiro-style breakaway, doping scandal, mis-timed preparation, complete meltdown of astana domestiques.

assuming he avoids all of this, pelizotti, basso, nibali, even wiggins or van de velde are much more deserving of being in the polls than others. cadel, sastre? aren't these guys riding the giro? kloden and levi? wrong team, wrong year for these guys. lance? a better bet than some on the list, but not a serious threat.

the schlecks are the big wild cards here. andy's preparation is not going well right now i don't think. and bianchigirl's assessment of frank is great. the tea leaves are inconclusive.

menchov is a good bet for being in the mix.

imho, conta has a much bigger chance of beating himself this year than anyone else.

you made all the points i wanted but much better.

it's a hasty, poorly constructed poll missing several real contenders but wasting space on armstrongs teammates.

wiggins is a real threat. evans imo potentially the biggest natural threat but he's riding the giro. menchov ? id call him an interesting proposition considering his early excellent form (murcua itt) and his gt record but something about him does not add up.

abstained.

 

[python]

oh good. another armstrong v conta thread.

it's always fun to see if anyone can bring anything new to the table here. actually there's been some decent stuff so far. right on, guys!

i only chime in because i was annoyed that there were no italians (liquigas, anyone?) but numerous RS guys in the poll!? sometimes i wonder if we are all following the same sport.

i was also annoyed that alberto contador has not been suggested as conta's biggest rival. seriously, anything can happen. off the top of my head: bad day, ill-timed mechanical, injury, illness, crash out, pereiro-style breakaway, doping scandal, mis-timed preparation, complete meltdown of astana domestiques.

assuming he avoids all of this, pelizotti, basso, nibali, even wiggins or van de velde are much more deserving of being in the polls than others. cadel, sastre? aren't these guys riding the giro? kloden and levi? wrong team, wrong year for these guys. lance? a better bet than some on the list, but not a serious threat.

the schlecks are the big wild cards here. andy's preparation is not going well right now i don't think. and bianchigirl's assessment of frank is great. the tea leaves are inconclusive.

menchov is a good bet for being in the mix.

imho, conta has a much bigger chance of beating himself this year than anyone else.

you made all the points i wanted but much better.

it's a hasty, poorly constructed poll missing several real contenders but wasting space on armstrongs teammates.

wiggins is a real threat. evans imo potentially the biggest natural threat but he's riding the giro. menchov ? id call him an interesting proposition considering his early excellent form (murcua itt) and his gt record but something about him does not add up.

abstained.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

nm. the message i was replying to disappeared as i was writing this. hmmm...

 

[David Suro]

The rivalry is mentioned so often because it makes for a good story.

The long-time dominant force in the tour comes out of retirement. The young-gun with a mountain of talent is attempting to place his stamp on the world of cycling, and doing quite well. The two race on the same team, but there is a lot of tension and even more speculation about what would happen if they were each left to ride their own race. Lance made a split early in the tour that Contador did not and he did not drop back to help bridge the gap for the team leader. Contador attacked against the team plan in the mountains and made up all of the time lost in that split, and more.

Now we have the chance to see what will happen.

Personally, it kind of smells of a heavyweight fight when a former champion is allowed to step into the ring with a fighter in his prime. Everyone knows the old guy has one punch left in him, but that the younger fighter will probably beat the old man into submission. At least then the aged warrior can say he gave it a shot and was beaten by a better man. The torch is passed.

It's a good story line for the media. There will probably be good viewer ratings as a result of the hype. Any attention brought to cycling for reasons other than doping is good for the sport.

If I were one of the other contenders, I would be delighted that I could prepare for the Tour in relative obscurity and with relative peace and quiet.

 

[python]

except since his un-retirement he mostly failed to control what he thought he could...contador and catlin being among the biggest public failures.

armstrong's obsessive controlling of other factors is a separate subject where sporting factors played minor role.

this post is a reply to spanky's self-edited post

 

[afpm90]

The fact that Machado won't be going to the TdF really tells you everything you need to know about RS for the TdF - the point being that AC has ridden as part of that team and knows the only tactic it has to employ. And, if RS aren't pulling in the mountains to give LA some kind of a chance at staying in the favourites group then their presence in the race really will be a waste of time. With Machado they had the option of at least panicking AC early on with a rider whose an unknown quantity who is capable of attacking and TTing. Now he knows he can ride off their pace and drop them for dead.

Add to that that AC will know exactly how Armstrong intends to prepare (they're ex-teammates after all) and the Spaniard continues to hold all the aces.

Roche has it best - contest? No contest
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3611/Stephen-Roche-Insight-Armstrong-vs-Contador-no-contest.aspx

Tiago Machado is a neo-pro and he only has 24 years old. Do you really think is wise to him to do the Tour?

 

[spanky wanderlust]

except since his un-retirement he mostly failed to control what he thought he could...contador and catlin being among the biggest public failures.

armstrong's obsessive controlling of other factors is a separate subject where sporting factors played minor role.

this post is a reply to spanky's self-edited post

sorry, python. still trying to figure out how this forum works. there are some unforseen tricks.

i agree. post-retirement is a different game. not even armstrong can control the effects age has on performance. we all see it. i think we all wish HE would realize this.

 

[python]

sorry, python. still trying to figure out how this forum works. there are some unforseen tricks.

i agree. post-retirement is a different game. not even armstrong can control the effects age has on performance. we all see it. i think we all wish HE would realize this.

there's much more to armstrong's lack of performance since un-retirement than the physiological aging. i'll skip some of the more provocative chemical implications to just mention his loss of sober self assessment in favour of vanity, ego trips and pure arrogance. a typical affliction of many aging, rich hasbeens.