Armstrong's competition in his winning tours and losing tour

[auscyclefan94]

This is all your fault, were you bored of worshipping Cadel or something!!!

 

[auscyclefan94]

Good post. I would like to see who is targeting the Tour, who is targeting the Giro and who will ride both races this year.

This to me will be a better indicator of who will be at the starting line in July with a chance to podium.

I would like to see Menchov and Basso with a full squad read to tackle the Tour. This will leave Armstrong, Schleck, Evans, Sastre...Did I leave anyone out?

It will be of utmost importance to not have any domestiques burnt-out from the Giro. The Tour is so important and could be one of the best in years, I hope some of the se director sportifs don't mess their riders up thinking that the Giro could be used for some solid training miles.

The Giro is too hard and too far from the start of the Tour for that to be a feasible strategy.

I say this having nothing against the Giro-I think it's a beautiful race. But this coming Tour could be special if all the stars line up accordingly.

I want to see Armstrong, Bruyneel and their merry band of doped-up, superannuated domestiques get their legs torn off by younger, stronger riders. But since Armstrong is supposedly hitting his 2002 numbers, maybe that won't happen (much to my chagrin).

With the 2002 numbers, that was last year. i don't think he will be hitting them again. he lagged big time on wilunga hill.

 

[BroDeal]

With the 2002 numbers, that was last year. i don't think he will be hitting them again. he lagged big time on wilunga hill.

His ego has grown bigger and heavier over the years. He needs to put out even more power than in the past to carry it up the hills.

 

[Ripper]

We're talking about PROs here, not amateur racers. No Pro bike racer has 20 pounds to lose, that's just how it is.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you're not a fatty anymore, road racing will do that for you. I have at least 5 pounds to lose so I should head off to fat camp and lay off the cookies and beer personally.

Don't tell Wiggo-Asso that you can't lose 20 lbs.

 

[python]

<snip> Lance supposedly said he was producing the same numbers he did in 2002 (which he was supposedly at his best)

...not according to cyclismag calculation

armstrongs best year was 2004 not 2002.

in 2009 they say armstrong matched his 2003 and 2005 tour performances.

 

[Rominger]

If Zulle had not got caught up in the whole crash thing in 99 I am not convinced Armstrong would have won, he wasn't that much better than him in the TT's and Sestriere didn't separate them too much either, Zulle had been known to go so deep as to make himself ill at a finish line in order to win but he knew that with a 6 min deficit he was never going to make it up so rode for second with the off chance that Armstrong might blow, then on the stage that Escartin won, if Zulle had been closer to Armstrong overall he might well have taken the lead off him. Its a bit of speculation but it might have changed the course of all of Armstrong's wins.

In answer to the question I think the standard was higher in the early winning tours, then dipped by his later winning tours, and now I am not so sure about that standard to be honest, the style of racing has changed and the drugs they use (allegedly) are different.

 

[laziali]

...
I love these responses. If you can't make sense, obfuscate with unwitty personal attacks. Not very gracious of you, my dear Ho. If you've read any of my posts, you'll see that I'm absolutely no Armstrong fan. Why do I go after Carboncrank the way I do if I was?

And by the way, he's the only one on this site I disrespect for reasons that should be clear-he's an unrepentant troll. No need for you to throw abuse my way. We can agree to disagree and debate the points without you getting snippy. ...

Good response Evgeny

Galic Ho sounds suspiciously like the very nasty "Runningboy" who has been hiding his tail between his legs since he got a thorough kicking on this board last year.

 

[laziali]

"hay guyz last year when I wuz racin' in Cat 4 I lost 10 pounds 'cause I was racin' a lot so it's simple for a Pro racer to lose 20 pounds cause I know cause I lost 10."

Seriously, I am in awe of how stupid some of the people on this discussion board are.

+1


Ps thanks for the photo here http://www.flickr.com/photos/slipstreamsports/3434625727/ US Patent - that is not normal. If that was a model we would say she has anorexia nervosa

 

[Galic Ho]

Good response Evgeny

Galic Ho sounds suspiciously like the very nasty "Runningboy" who has been hiding his tail between his legs since he got a thorough kicking on this board last year.

Yes, I've been posting on this site longer than you and possibly Berzin. Sorry but I am not your runningboy. Guess again. If Berzin does not like being corrected then he needs to be precise. Very precise in his written word. He did infer by his language, 2010 was about Lance and Alberto. It isn't, check the other threads. Heck check the one Berzin mentioned concerning CarbonCrank and his trolling. For the record, most of us stay away from that troll fest, so your opinion on Lance isn't gospel and general knowledge. I now know. Why did I assume you were listening to Lance? Because only the Shack fans think there is a battle coming between Lance and Alberto.The realists have been calling that BS out for months. Laziali, you would know this if you had more than 50 odd posts. People here have been calling LA's BS out before he came back to the Tour. Contador is ignoring the man, for the reason I stated. His competion comes from Luxembourg. Realists know this and don't need to make silly (have a cry if that upsets you) concluding statements that the battle is coming to a tv near you in July.

Berzin, again I am repeating myself, you also inferred Sastre was worn out by doing the Tour/Giro double. No, that was not it alone, as I tried to show, more precisely it was the Vuelta and Tour in 2008 on the back of the Giro/Tour in 2009. One GT in 2009 was going to hurt because he had 3 consecutive. Sucks, but it was the Tour. New team, lost of responsibility and he was the defending champ. Carlos had to race. He has done two before, back to back and had a win and a podium. Remeber 2008? Forget that bit did you? It was 2008 plus the Giro in 2009 that wore Sastre out. If he'd have gone to the Vuelta, he'd have been fine, but as I said, he couldnt...he was expected to be in France because he was the defending champ. Berzin essentially, inferred Carlos cannot do back to back, no on can, but here Carlos is doing back to back in 2008 and pulling it off. That is essential what Berzin inferred. As I said...partially right, but in principle, not correct either based on his argument. I provided the full answer. Combine the years. Sastre needed a bigger break between seasons, or to skip the Tour. Before you whinge about the Giro/Tour double, (because this is essentially about one forumists ego taking a bruising), being harder than the Tour/Vuelta, look at the 2008 courses and then the podiums for the latter two. Third to Contador and Valverde is more than respectable.

To the other rider who blew out in the Tour, don't even think the seasoned viewers buy the Menchov excuse...there was more to him than Dennis body simply being "worn out." Worn out is the polite excuse to save face, because he is a likeable bloke. The more likely reason involves 3 doping incidents and issues. Big issues that scared the smack out of the Russian. Human plasma. Di Luca and their Giro battle. Danilo had just been busted. Plus the retroactive testing from 2008 samples. The blow torch was on and Rabo management were the only team to release names from the retroactive testing. Dennis was feeling it on the home front. Check the Clinic topics. Plus Menchov couldn't stay on his bike for a few months last year.

As for Schleck, look at the time to third. He pulled away from the frontrunners at various points in 2009. More than just a frontrunner, or a hanger on. AS is a major gun. The second biggest. I forgot, because he didn't have the style of AC, or perhaps it is because when he did make a move, Contador went with him, some people forgot how good those moves were. He paced a huge portion of Mt.Ventoux and looked like he had another 5 notches. Eight attacks on that mountain guys. Only Contador pulled him in. Angliru pointed out on another thread that apart from the Schlecks and Evans, nobody else made a move to crack AC and Astana. Nobody! Then, again, I ask anyone to explain the time back to all the other GC riders...AS was far better than Berzin described. Use a more descriptive vocabulary in future. You made AS sound bland. For the last time, he'd have to stop riding to be bland, such is the skill of that man.

As for bashing anyone....hahaha. Think I was mocking you Berzin or being a smart ar$e? No correcting what I believed were simple interpretive mistakes. Mistakes that arose because of the language used. Regardless of intent...the language used on your behalf was clear. Don't take it personally. Check my language. Perhaps you do not like the ideas I put forward but if I were out for blood you and everyone from here in Australia to Britain would recognise it. My language would be vivid, disgusting and colourful.

 

[Galic Ho]

Good post. I would like to see who is targeting the Tour, who is targeting the Giro and who will ride both races this year.

How often do you read the site? Just curious, but if it was frequent, like 3-5 times a week, you would already know the answer.

Alberto Contador, Andy and Frank Schleck, Lance Armstrong, Samuel Sanchez, Dennis Menchov and Alejandro Valverde have all been quoted or had team management state, in news reports on this site, that they are aiming for the Tour in 2010. By 'aim', the notion is they are coming to race well. All the ones mentioned after Armstrong can always do the Vuelta if something goes wrong.

Evans has said he is going to the Giro with BMC. We 'd don't know if he is going for the win as BMC may get an invite to the Tour, if the ASO increase the team numbers to 22 teams. Thus we do not know what he is aiming for. However, with AS, AC and LA, Evans is the only other rider to state he wants to win the Tour and more importantly believes he can win it. His comments were vague, suggesting a possible 2 year time frame. BMC aim to be in the Tour by 2011. Hence Cadels comments can not be taken as a direct statement of intent for 2010. Sastre and Pellizotti have both said they are going to do the Giro. My best guess is that these 3 will make up the Giro podium.

Liquigas has confirmed they are sending Nibali and Kreuziger to the Tour and then the Vuelta. Basso and Pellizotti to the Giro and Tour. Pellizotti is the only rider to have stated his intent to perform, which is for the Giro. Other threads seem summarised Liquigas as having the following: Pellizotti will get Basso working for him in Italy, Basso gets everyone for France and the young guns get to lay down their GC podium intentions in Spain.

I would like to see Menchov and Basso with a full squad read to tackle the Tour. This will leave Armstrong, Schleck, Evans, Sastre...Did I leave anyone out?

Wiggins. Who cares. Just joking dim! Sky are going for the Tour. Wiggins wants to improve by a position. Believes he can beat Lance. Check the multiple Sky/Wiggins threads for his quotes. Brad lets them roll off his tongue with ease. Gesink will help Menchov and Astana will send Vinokourov and Perreiro in the Tour. Vandevelde...might even get Tommy D. Oh and I forgot Fuglsang might get that spare spot Arvesen left on Saxo.

I want to see Armstrong, Bruyneel and their merry band of doped-up, superannuated domestiques get their legs torn off by younger, stronger riders. But since Armstrong is supposedly hitting his 2002 numbers, maybe that won't happen (much to my chagrin).

Carmichael said the same last year. You and I know, from last years form, that was an exaggeration. Same this year. Even if Lance knows Contador won't buy it, they twitterfosi will. Gotta feed the fanboys.

 

[Cerberus]

Oh and I forgot Fuglsang might get that spare spot Arvesen left on Saxo.

I don't think there's much "might" about that. Baring accident or illness Fuglsang gets a spot. Bjarne Riis has already said that in retrospect Fuglsang could have riden the 2009 Tour.

 

[Belokki]

Hey guys I just had an epifany...

Contador looks like Obama....


Ps Lance is gonna meka him look so bad he's gonna think he's a sprinter!

 

[Mellow Velo]

With the 2002 numbers, that was last year. i don't think he will be hitting them again. he lagged big time on wilunga hill.

Is it only me, but does anybody else find it odd, that he makes a comeback, at 38 and hits his best prime year's figures, straight out of the blocks?
He must have known that was possible, before he un-retired.

 

[Cerberus]

Is it only me, but does anybody else find it odd, that he makes a comeback, at 38 and hits his best prime year's figures, straight out of the blocks?
He must have known that was possible, before he un-retired.

I'm sorry? Are we taking LA's claims at face value now?

 

[Ripper]

How often do you read the site? Just curious, but if it was frequent, like 3-5 times a week, you would already know the answer.

Alberto Contador, Andy and Frank Schleck, Lance Armstrong, Samuel Sanchez, Dennis Menchov and Alejandro Valverde have all been quoted or had team management state, in news reports on this site, that they are aiming for the Tour in 2010. By 'aim', the notion is they are coming to race well. All the ones mentioned after Armstrong can always do the Vuelta if something goes wrong.

Evans has said he is going to the Giro with BMC. We 'd don't know if he is going for the win as BMC may get an invite to the Tour, if the ASO increase the team numbers to 22 teams. Thus we do not know what he is aiming for. However, with AS, AC and LA, Evans is the only other rider to state he wants to win the Tour and more importantly believes he can win it. His comments were vague, suggesting a possible 2 year time frame. BMC aim to be in the Tour by 2011. Hence Cadels comments can not be taken as a direct statement of intent for 2010. Sastre and Pellizotti have both said they are going to do the Giro. My best guess is that these 3 will make up the Giro podium.

Liquigas has confirmed they are sending Nibali and Kreuziger to the Tour and then the Vuelta. Basso and Pellizotti to the Giro and Tour. Pellizotti is the only rider to have stated his intent to perform, which is for the Giro. Other threads seem summarised Liquigas as having the following: Pellizotti will get Basso working for him in Italy, Basso gets everyone for France and the young guns get to lay down their GC podium intentions in Spain.



Wiggins. Who cares. Just joking dim! Sky are going for the Tour. Wiggins wants to improve by a position. Believes he can beat Lance. Check the multiple Sky/Wiggins threads for his quotes. Brad lets them roll off his tongue with ease. Gesink will help Menchov and Astana will send Vinokourov and Perreiro in the Tour. Vandevelde...might even get Tommy D. Oh and I forgot Fuglsang might get that spare spot Arvesen left on Saxo.



Carmichael said the same last year. You and I know, from last years form, that was an exaggeration. Same this year. Even if Lance knows Contador won't buy it, they twitterfosi will. Gotta feed the fanboys.

Wow, you write some long posts there GH.

 

[laziali]

... Because only the Shack fans think there is a battle coming between Lance and Alberto.The realists have been calling that BS out for months. Laziali, you would know this if you had more than 50 odd posts. ...

Interesting theory Ho - if one posts a lot on this particular board one knows more than others. You got any evidence to support that, chump? If you had bothered to read my other posts you would know I am no fan of the Uniballer.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your long long long post because it was plainly arrant drivel.

 

[progressor]

Interesting theory Ho - if one posts a lot on this particular board one knows more than others. You got any evidence to support that, chump? I

Don't worry that delusion is common to most boards, sadly.

 

[Galic Ho]

Interesting theory Ho - if one posts a lot on this particular board one knows more than others. You got any evidence to support that, chump? If you had bothered to read my other posts you would know I am no fan of the Uniballer.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your long long long post because it was plainly arrant drivel.

Actually I now know why you are upset. Saw my post on this thread and realised I had responded to you on another. Oh, plus I also, from what one can read beneath the surface, have a grasp of the english language. I said if a forumist had read multiple threads, been an active follower of the threads and news updates, they would have been aware of the question I quoted. I don't know who does what, my eyes and ears only go so far. Thus I stated the knowledge regarding racer schedules has been discussed and provide a summary of the discussions and press releases. Sorry that upset you and twisted your knickers. Get over it.

"If one posts a lot on this particular board one knows more than others."

I love your twisting of my words. Of course one knows more than others if they post more frequently! They know more about what was posted. As for the truth and who knows more...can't say that is true. As for the word twisting...a number of posters took similar issues to the moderators. Read what is written in future.

Or was it your gripe something else, such as a comment about an idea a friend of yours voiced and that I made him cry? Again, get over it and take your annoyance elsewhere.

As for the length of my last post. I addressed a question I believed a poster had asked because of a lack of knowledge. Filling in 10 plus threads takes a time. I can type quickly and think on my feet. Long posts are a side effect. Sorry for the length. Laziali, if you don't like the summation or believe my info is wrong, by all means, correct me. I am not against being shown wrong...it is the BS, ego trips and flaming displayed in a manner identical to your post on another thread that I have no stomach for. Here is a repeat for the record...look at my language. A question mark does not mean I am angry. Abusive language is the key. As to date you're the only poster who has copped this from me. Plenty more on tap where that came from.

 

[bianchigirl]

Just noticed an inaccuracy - shouldn't the thread title be losing tours - after all he competed between 1993 - 1999 with very little success against some great opposition: Indurain, Zulle, Bugno, Rominger etc

 

[Rominger]

Just noticed an inaccuracy - shouldn't the thread title be losing tours - after all he competed between 1993 - 1999 with very little success against some great opposition: Indurain, Zulle, Bugno, Rominger etc

you mean he rode a bike before cancer? wow, I never knew!

But seriously, I think for the purposes of this thread people don't count those tours because he was not much more than a chubby stage hunter, definitely not a GC contnder, the whole Armstrong v Indurain et al is a whole other thread.

 

[laziali]

... [1] Oh, plus I also, from what one can read beneath the surface, have a grasp of the english language."
...
[2] Sorry for the length.
...
[3] Abusive language is the key. As to date you're the only poster who has copped this from me. Plenty more on tap where that came from.

[1] Really Ho? If you think your ungainly grammar and syntax are well written, you really should read more widely. By the way, it's "English" not "english".

[2] Well, at least you know how to apologise when you are in error. Well done.

[3] Wow, so much anger Ho.

For the record, Indurain's superior lung capacity, Vo2max, resting heart-rate, and mental strength put him well above Bertie.

 

[El Imbatido]

For the record, Indurain's superior lung capacity, Vo2max, resting heart-rate, and mental strength put him well above Bertie.

I don't want to buy into this back and forth thing you two have going but i'm interested in this last point. Sorry if it has already been brought up in this thread somewhere but i didn't think anyone knew Contador's VO2 max, LC, RHR etc. I thought it was all speculation an no solid confirmed figures? If you know can you tell us, provide links etc. Thanks

 

[53 x 11]

[1] Really Ho? If you think your ungainly grammar and syntax are well written, you really should read more widely. By the way, it's "English" not "english".

Look out! In one of his rants he mentioned that he has a commerce degree or something similar. You're arguing with an intellectual.

 

[Galic Ho]

Look out! In one of his rants he mentioned that he has a commerce degree or something similar. You're arguing with an intellectual.

It beats asking people to blow you during a drugs test. Nice work there. What does that make you? Closet camper or the provertbial joker who masks his insecurities with veiled humour that takes on a homosexual nature? You know, the macho I am a real man crap because I make gay jokes! Sounds like an aussie try hard, which most bike riders are. Keep it up and enjoy the next union meeting (if you can't figure this one out, think harder). A business degree does not make one an intellectual. But it does mean I can count without using my fingers and toes. Good to see you're still left with the after taste of the last encounter. How close was Evans and LLS to Greipel by the way? Still think they can't win in Adelaide if they want to?

Laziali, I love the daisy coloured tag you use. Sounds like you borrowed it from some Italian pron. Classy! As for Indurain and Bertie, as El Imbatido said, you can't compare physical parameters when one rider hasn't released them. Given the figures out there, Hinault and Lemond have some better stats than Indurain. Nice try. Heck, they were the ones stating their figures. All the Indurain stats I've seen are on wiki or another unverifiable site. Horses mouth trumps in the accuracy stakes.

 

[53 x 11]

It beats asking people to blow you during a drugs test. Nice work there. What does that make you? Closet camper or the provertbial joker who masks his insecurities with veiled humour that takes on a homosexual nature? You know, the macho I am a real man crap because I make gay jokes! Sounds like an aussie try hard, which most bike riders are. Keep it up and enjoy the next union meeting (if you can't figure this one out, think harder). A business degree does not make one an intellectual. But it does mean I can count without using my fingers and toes. Good to see you're still left with the after taste of the last encounter. How close was Evans and LLS to Greipel by the way? Still think they can't win in Adelaide if they want to?

You are an angry little fella aren’t you.

Its good to see that you picked up a few psychology electives during your long, wasted years at uni.

Maybe I am gay. In your opinion as a qualified medical professional can I be gay and inadequate?

Lastly I will point out that despite doing everything he could, and getting help from two of the best riders in the world, Cuddles still couldn't get close to Griepel in the TDU. I didn't want to rub it in as you seem to have such a fragile ego......I suggest you look at what a close winning margines in the TDU is.