Astana Licence to be withdrawn?

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Aru rest day blood bad time trial to 10th

 

[BigMac]

Gotta even out things here, eh Dekker?

 

[hrotha]

Well it is pretty blatant by now. His form goes up and down like crazy around the rest days.

 

[WheelofGear]

I think Aru's (and Landa's) magical "rest days" have been way more dodgy than anything Dumoulin has done.

Hope that Tom will take this. Astana's licence should have been withdrawn for long time ago.

 

[WheelofGear]

I've noticed that he fades pretty fast when his brutal perfomance after the rest day is completed. Did the same thing in the Giro.

Does his magic elixir only works for a few days? What kind of short-term drug could that be?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Aru was 20 secs slower than Quintana who weighs approx 7 kg less and was challenging for the Tour a few weeks ago

 

[HSNHSN]

Re:

I've noticed that he fades pretty fast when his brutal perfomance after the rest day is completed. Did the same thing in the Giro.

Does his magic elixir only works for a few days? What kind of short-term drug could that be?

I wonder if I've been watching the same Giro. Didn't Aru win the second and third to last stage (4 and 5 days after the last rest day, respectively), while winning 2:30 on Contador on the last of these stages? That doesn't sound like fading pretty fast, really, does it?

Nonetheless, the post rest-day rides are extraordinary.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Aru was 20 secs slower than Quintana who weighs approx 7 kg less and was challenging for the Tour a few weeks ago

Quintana is like Valverde, they become great TT-riders on Spanish soil...
Nobody here claims that Aru is clean, but you have to say that he looked way better on the TT-bike, he really worked hard on his position.
The big thing with Aru really is the way he fades and recovers in a GT, it's pretty unique.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

Aru was 20 secs slower than Quintana who weighs approx 7 kg less and was challenging for the Tour a few weeks ago

Quintana is like Valverde, they become great TT-riders on Spanish soil...
Nobody here claims that Aru is clean, but you have to say that he looked way better on the TT-bike, he really worked hard on his position.
The big thing with Aru really is the way he fades and recovers in a GT, it's pretty unique.

In the Giro he was sick in the 2nd week. Here he's been pretty consistent imo

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

still he was much stronger in andorra (post rest day) then on monday..

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re:

still he was much stronger in andorra (post rest day) then on monday..

Surely just a case of one finish being a ridiculously steep Purito speciality than anything else? I thought he was really pretty good on monday. If he was able to win those type of stages this race would be done and dusted by now

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

still he was much stronger in andorra (post rest day) then on monday..

A rest day afect to the riders yes or yes, with doping or without doping, an efect in a good way or in a bad way.

 

[WheelofGear]

Re: Re:

still he was much stronger in andorra (post rest day) then on monday..

A rest day afect to the riders yes or yes, with doping or without doping, an efect in a good way or in a bad way.

What do you mean by that?

Some riders can get weaker after having doped up in the rest day?

 

[TommyGun]

Re: Re:

still he was much stronger in andorra (post rest day) then on monday..

A rest day afect to the riders yes or yes, with doping or without doping, an efect in a good way or in a bad way.

What do you mean by that?

Some riders can get weaker after having doped up in the rest day?

Faulty blood bad, or what happened to Landis on his bad day in 2006, I guess

 

[Orvieto]

It occurred to me today just how pissed I would be as Tom Dumoulin if Landa or one of Aru's other principal helpers was popped for doping. Aru's team was the difference in this race. It was Landa who finally snapped the elastic band on the climbs today's stage 20, then four Astana riders helped drive the gap on the flat. Any one of those Astana helpers could receive a suspension, but it will not make a jot of difference to Dumoulin's finish spot. Only if Aru himself is caught does the GC position change.

Surely in this is the seeds of some sort of partial remedy to team doping. Punish the team as well as the individual. if a rider is caught doping in competition, every other member of the team should receive a 1 minute time penalty. If caught by retrospective doping, the entire team's results should be nullified. This may sound harsh, but it is no harsher than losing to another GC contender surrounded by doped domestiques while you battle alone. Such a sanctions regime would recognize what we all know, that cycling is a team sport and that cheating requires a team sanction. It would provide a powerful motivation for teams to police themselves, whereas today it's to their advantage to turn a blind eye and play plausible deniability.

 

[doperhopper]

It occurred to me today just how pissed I would be as Tom Dumoulin if Landa or one of Aru's other principal helpers was popped for doping. Aru's team was the difference in this race. It was Landa who finally snapped the elastic band on the climbs today's stage 20, then four Astana riders helped drive the gap on the flat. Any one of those Astana helpers could receive a suspension, but it will not make a jot of difference to Dumoulin's finish spot. Only if Aru himself is caught does the GC position change.

Surely in this is the seeds of some sort of partial remedy to team doping. Punish the team as well as the individual. if a rider is caught doping in competition, every other member of the team should receive a 1 minute time penalty. If caught by retrospective doping, the entire team's results should be nullified. This may sound harsh, but it is no harsher than losing to another GC contender surrounded by doped domestiques while you battle alone. Such a sanctions regime would recognize what we all know, that cycling is a team sport and that cheating requires a team sanction. It would provide a powerful motivation for teams to police themselves, whereas today it's to their advantage to turn a blind eye and play plausible deniability.

If the officials/sponsors/teams cared about the doping in cycling,

that's what happens when main players (officials/sponsors/teams/crowd) care only about the IMAGE of cycling and only mind the fact that cycling is PERCEIVED as highly doped sport - but almost nobody cares much about doping itself

 

[malakassis]

astana forever! one of the few teams who lighten up this years racing. what a nice kick in the n*** of all those MPCC hypocrites.

 

[the sceptic]

much rather Astana win than sky or other hypocrites. Hope they will crank their doping up another notch next year.

 

[wendybnt]

Re:

much rather Astana win than sky or other hypocrites. Hope they will crank their doping up another notch next year.

I think you might be forgetting that Astana employ Nibali, The Symbol of Clean and Honest Sport

They really are all as bad as each other. Well, the winning teams are, at least.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Well it is pretty blatant by now. His form goes up and down like crazy around the rest days.

true that, but in the giro it was a bit different though.

Mortirolo was after restday right? But last 2 days he suddenly was way better.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Re: Re:

I think you might be forgetting that Astana employ Nibali, The Symbol of Clean and Honest Sport

They really are all as bad as each other. Well, the winning teams are, at least.

I agree but they're not perceived that way by most, for example, 'Sky employ Froome, the symbol of Clean and Honest sport', would not be seen as the obvious joke to some.

 

[wendybnt]

I agree. I was responding to the poster before me who seemed to be favouring one team of dopers over another on the grounds that the others are hypocrites. Hypocrisy has to do with the motivation and words of the teams rather than the interpretation of those words by others. I think Nibali and Froome were coming at it from exactly the same place. Whether people view them differently is irrelevant to whether they are hypocrites.

As far as interpretation, Astana don't fool many, they were born in doping and are still embroiled in it. Sky are the new kids on the block, they may still fool some, but eventually, probably, an Astana type incident will befall them too.

 

[Brian Butterfield]

Sky have better tradecraft. Astana are dilettantes.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

The difference is that Astana are perceived here as 'good' dopers (along with Katusha, Movistar and Tinkoff) whereas Sky are considered to be 'nasty' dopers (along with Orica and Garmin). The doping on the ' good' teams is not encouraged but it is generally tolerated as part of the sport and it is considered fine to be a supporter of those teams or any of their riders (apart from Alex Dowsett). However, any support for anybody who rides for any of the 'nasty' teams is not tolerated and any posters who expresses any support for riders on these teams will be constantly ridiculed and bullied and requested to not post in the clinic by the self appointed clinic police who reside here.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Re:

The difference is that Astana are perceived here as 'good' dopers (along with Katusha, Movistar and Tinkoff) whereas Sky are considered to be 'nasty' dopers (along with Orica and Garmin). The doping on the ' good' teams is not encouraged but it is generally tolerated as part of the sport and it is considered fine to be a supporter of those teams or any of their riders (apart from Alex Dowsett). However, any support for anybody who rides for any of the 'nasty' teams is not tolerated and any posters who expresses any support for riders on these teams will be constantly ridiculed and bullied and requested to not post in the clinic by the self appointed clinic police who reside here.

Haha, sounds like perhaps a touchy fan of one of the nasty doping teams? are you sure it's not more likely to be that your 'good' doping teams are generally accepted by all to have had issues with doping however your 'bad' doping teams have ardent fans who refuse to accept that their riders/teams could be suspect?