Astana rider details Contador's doping practices

[Berzin]

So, has the Humo article been published and out on the newsstands and bookstores?

 

[Mich78BEL]

So, has the Humo article been published and out on the newsstands and bookstores?

yes, 2 days ago

 

[webvan]

Someone previously mentioned Astana DS Laurenzo Lapage is Belgian. I would also guess a non-Belgian rider living in Belgium or even the Netherlands could have been the Humo source. And who knows how many other Astana staff may be Belgian amongst soigneurs, doctors and mechs? There is a tremendous amount of Belgian technical and medical staff floating around the ProTour.

Where is Astana's service course now? Italy?

Dunno but I'm sure the UCI has zeroed om the source by now, let's see what they do about it...it's going to make it hard to go for a reduced one year ban now, let alone the ridiculous 3 months that had apparently been quietly negotiated.

 

[JRTinMA]

I agree. Sounds reasonable.

It was Julien, the cat who stored the tubulars in his basement.

 

[Berzin]

Anyone care to translate the article so we know what it says?
I got it off the Humo.be site, so I don't know whether it's the full interview or just a portion-

'Tussen de Dauphiné en de Tour heeft hij een bloedtransfusie ondergaan'

Het is onzin dat de in de urine van Alberto Contador aangetroffen clenbuterol per ongeluk uit een lap kalfsvlees komt. Dat bevestigt, tegenover Humo, een bron die zeer dicht bij de Astana-ploeg van de Spaanse Tourwinnaar staat: 'Hij heeft een bloedtransfusie ondergaan na de Dauphiné Libéré, en in dat bloed zat nog een klein restje clenbuterol van een net afgelopen vermageringskuur.'

Clenbuterol heeft, ondanks de relatief grote pakkans, een interessante werking: het zorgt voor een snellere vetverbranding en bevordert de spieropbouw.

Wielrenner «Je moet het gebruiken in combinatie met T3. Dat is een schildklierhormoon (triiodothyronine, red.) dat helpt bij de afbraak van vetten. Dan heb je sneller effect met een kleinere dosis clen. En: hoe kleiner de dosis, hoe kleiner ook de kans dat je betrapt wordt.»

Snel gewichtsverlies: dat is de reden waarom Contador clenbuterol gebruikte. Een insider die heel dicht bij de Astana-ploeg staat, vertelt:

Insider «In de Dauphiné Libéré (de laatste belangrijke voorbereidingskoers voor de Tour de France, red.) had Contador nog een tikje overgewicht. Gewone mensen zien dat niet, maar er mocht nog een kilo of twee af. Daar gebruiken ze dan clenbuterol voor: de laatste kilo's kwijtspelen, en er tegelijk over waken dat je geen spiermassa verliest - of, in het beste geval, nog een beetje extra spiermassa kweken.»

HUMO Dat verklaart nog niet waarom de clenbuterol pas tijdens de laatste rustdag van de Tour in een urinestaal opdook.

Insider «Maar allez! In de periode tussen de Dauphiné en de Tour heeft Contador nog bloed afgetapt - kleine zakjes, om de bloedwaarden in zijn biologisch paspoort niet te verstoren. De afname is dus gebeurd op een moment dat er nog een spoortje clenbuterol in zijn bloed zat. En dat spoortje is in dat zakje bloed blijven zitten, tot hij het later opnieuw in zijn lichaam kreeg.»

HUMO Worden er dan nog steeds bloedtransfusies uitgevoerd?

Insider «Natuurlijk. Maar in kleine dosissen van 150cc. Vroeger kregen de renners tijdens de Tour twee, drie grote zakken bloed, van 400 à 500 cc. Nu kunnen ze zich dat niet meer permitteren - precies vanwege dat biologisch paspoort, dat plotse schommelingen in de bloedwaarden bijhoudt.»

Contador en zijn entourage ontkennen in alle toonaarden dat hij een bloedtransfusie zou hebben ondergaan. 'Vries al mijn urine- en bloedstalen gerust in, en analyseer ze over vijf jaar opnieuw,' zei Contador in een interview met Reuters. Zijn broer/manager Fran reageerde emotioneler: 'Hij heeft niets illegaals gedaan. Je kan toch geen onschuldige tot de elektrische stoel veroordelen?'

 

[c&cfan]

if all members like cycling, why are you saying this kind of stuff about contador's case?

you cant use the new test as proof. in fact, you dont even know what was the real test result. even if the meat thing is bull****, that amount of clen cant be seen as doping. doping is taking drugs with the goal of make you performe better. everyone that does sport is a "doper", even the chess players that use meds to make their focus increase and stuff like that. however that amount of clen does not make anyone performe better in any way. the other similar cases that ended in ban where mistakes. so you are saying that another mistake has to be done to this sport instead of correcting the previous ones? how smart is that? if you dont like cycling, dont watch it.

the meat thing.

some of you are saying that every cyclist are using drugs to make then performe better. then, you say that there's no clen in meat. why?where's the logic? have you ever been in a restaurant (even if a expensive one) kitchen during a weak? do you know what they do to dirty meat? do you think that a farmer that needs more money to survive or if he is just a bad person wont use clen every time they can? do you think that if a big company in any country has clen and other stuff in the meat you will know it for sure (money....)? do you think that if you are tested for clen you wouldnt be caught with a similar or bigger amount of it?

where are all the real cycling fans? the ones that love watching cycling.. the ones that dont want to see an EPO CERA (etc) user like ricco.. the ones that arent just watching this sport with the goal and fun of ban innocent (until the oposite is proven) and amazing riders? the ones that know that the other cycling "fans" are just killing the sport.. the ones that want to see every sport tested to show then that cycling are not for junkies.. the ones that know that our heroes are tough men.. doing something amazing.. killing theirselfs for the sport..for us..for their dream (and not "running" 90min per weak apearing in magazines with fake commercials like ronaldo being faster than a bugati veyron)?? what happened?? are almost all of you crazy? do you think that every cyclist is using CERA or EPO or something similar???? some are..so they have to be banned. contador (so far) isnt. every person in the world is a "doper"!!! taking meds to increasy focus ability, vitamins, something that helps your body (energetic drinks etc) etc etc etc etc..

the cyclist arent more "REAL DOPERS (EPO CERA OTHERS)" than rugby players, 100m 200m sprinters etc etc. in fact they are much more tested etc, there are less dopers in cycling. use your brain, use common sense.

cycling is.. amazing!!!

 

[Chuffy]

c&cfan - you might want to take a look at this story - Experts Poke Holes In Contaminated Meat Defence.

 

[c&cfan]

c&cfan - you might want to take a look at this story - Experts Poke Holes In Contaminated Meat Defence.

go to google and you will find experts "protecting" contador.

first, it was just an opinion of 2 people.
second, thousands of tests in a world of billions? use your own brain on this one.. dont you think small farmers use clen and other drugs everytime they can? dont you think that big and powerful companies dont use clen and other drugs and they wont be caught because they have money and power to "escape" and erase positive tests? where were those tests made? madrid? and the other spain? small towns..etc.

that "story" said that qualified people (more or less than that woman, same area of work)said that that amount isnt enough to be considered a PED and that woman disagreed. so???

what is your point? i am wrong because you believe in a single scientist instead of believing in others in the same area?so what? you think what you want.. contador can be guilty. but the meat thing is possible (much more than you think). i am just telling facts and using logic.

 

[Chuffy]

go to google and you will find experts "protecting" contador.

Let's pretend I can't spell Google and I've lost the use of my fingers in a bizarre crochet accident.

Show me...

 

[c&cfan]

Let's pretend I can't spell Google and I've lost the use of my fingers in a bizarre crochet accident.

Show me...

http://www.marca.com/2010/10/14/cicl...8&t=1287177091

are you kidding?what news to you read? only "gossip"?

do you know that the only news that are selling stuff are the news (some, made up) of someone "killing" contador because he is the best and he isnt french. however, there are much more people pprotecting the guy than accusing him. well..you are smart right?

 

[Chuffy]

http://www.marca.com/2010/10/14/cicl...8&t=1287177091

are you kidding?what news to you read? only "gossip"?

do you know that the only news that are selling stuff are the news (some, made up) of someone "killing" contador because he is the best and he isnt french. however, there are much more people pprotecting the guy than accusing him. well..you are smart right?

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Thanks for that, shall I consider myself enlightened or do you want to try again?

 

[Altitude]

even if the meat thing is bull****, that amount of clen cant be seen as doping. doping is taking drugs with the goal of make you performe better. everyone that does sport is a "doper", even the chess players that use meds to make their focus increase and stuff like that. however that amount of clen does not make anyone performe better in any way.

How do you know? Have you doped w/ Clen and experimented w/ different doses?

some of you are saying that every cyclist are using drugs to make then performe better. then, you say that there's no clen in meat. why?where's the logic? have you ever been in a restaurant (even if a expensive one) kitchen during a weak? do you know what they do to dirty meat? do you think that a farmer that needs more money to survive or if he is just a bad person wont use clen every time they can? do you think that if a big company in any country has clen and other stuff in the meat you will know it for sure (money....)? do you think that if you are tested for clen you wouldnt be caught with a similar or bigger amount of it?

"Only once did clenbuterol show up in 83,203 animal samples tested by EU countries in 2008 and 2009, says the European Commission's directorate for health and consumer policy. Spain tested 19,431 samples in those years; none were positive for the drug."

are almost all of you crazy?

....

 

[hrotha]

c&cfan, look for older threads about Contador's positive and read them. If your points haven't been addressed there, then feel free to ask here.

 

[c&cfan]

chuffy, what a comic moment!lol go to the thread about WADA has beef witn contador's bla bla and in the last ten posts you will find that link working. googled again for the same article.

altitude----

1-you know.. i read scientific stuff about cycling instead of gossip about cycling. you can find lots of experts saying that.... and one article in cycling news with ONE expert saying that he believes that ALL THE OTHERS experts aren't right. interesting, that was the most seen article about those experts that were read here. think what you want. see chuffy's previous posts.

2- is that the same logic that you used to david millar and basso ulrich armstrong etc?then you will understand what i said.

3-yeah. are all of you crazy?

hrotha

that is what i am doing.

2-

 

[Mich78BEL]

Even if the clenbuterol-traces are small, the meat-story is just bull**** and Contador should get the same treatment and punishment as other riders/athletes have in the past, would 2 years be harsh? Yes imo but thats another debate.

 

[Chuffy]

chuffy, what a comic moment!lol go to the thread about WADA has beef witn contador's bla bla and in the last ten posts you will find that link working. googled again for the same article.

Curse that crochet needle, I can't type!

I call fanboi. Case closed.

 

[Chuffy]

1-you know.. i read scientific stuff about cycling instead of gossip about cycling. you can find lots of experts saying that.... and one article in cycling news with ONE expert saying that he believes that ALL THE OTHERS experts aren't right. interesting, that was the most seen article about those experts that were read here. think what you want. see chuffy's previous posts.

What she believes dear boy, what she believes.

Still waiting for those links to the other experts...

 

[c&cfan]

Even if the clenbuterol-traces are small, the meat-story is just bull**** and Contador should get the same treatment and punishment as other riders/athletes have in the past, would 2 years be harsh? Yes imo but thats another debate.

you are so wrong... since the threatment to others were also a mistake. this wont never make cycling better. this will only kill it.

chuffy

that's your own problem. call it what you want think what you want.. i already showed one link (the WADA beef thing). no more stuff to discuss with you little man.

 

[Chuffy]

that's your own problem. call it what you want think what you want.. i already showed one link (the WADA beef thing). no more stuff to discuss with you little man.

Your link doesn't work. And that seems to have been your one and only weapon. Your guns are spiked, your fangs are pulled and I call fanboi on your sorry ****. The rest is silence.

 

[c&cfan]

xD well said.. but why should i have the work to show you this stuff? you can find them when you want.. and i showed you that link because a saw it 3 seconds after your first post asking for it and then i saw it in that page "wada bla bla" and it worked. no only that, the last post of that page is yours.

 

[Altitude]

you are so wrong... since the threatment to others were also a mistake. this wont never make cycling better. this will only kill it.

Actually, I think I speak for many when I say that this will make cycling way more intersting/exciting, especially the tour. Clentadope was rather boring.

Anyhow I recommend that you check yourself into a mental ward. Feel free to post the results of your psychiatric analysis when you return.

 

[c&cfan]

that showed how smart and a cycling fan you are. he is the best so he has to be baned..

about the last sentence.. your family must be so proud of you you are the son that your father wanted!

 

[JPM London]

So AC had a dope test the morning of the rest day. I think the morning was the blood test that showed no clen (but did show plasticizers, I think). Immediately after the dope test, he could have taken a very small dose of clen to help with breathing, not expecting to be tested again until the following morning, when it should be cleared out of his system. Unbeknownst to him, however, he gets a surprise second dope test the evening of the rest day. This is the urine test where the clen shows up.

Anybody know how quick they can get the result of the DEHP test? I know I'm clutching at straws here, but is it completely impossible that between morning and afternoon they had a report on elevated DEHP and then decided to do a urine ASAP (same night) in the hope of finding EPO?

Let's pretend I can't spell Google and I've lost the use of my fingers in a bizarre crochet accident.

Show me...

Sorry, the "crochet accident" excuse has been used too many times. You probably have elevated DEHP. Very suspicious...

that showed how smart and a cycling fan you are. he is the best so he has to be baned..

about the last sentence.. your family must be so proud of you you are the son that your father wanted!

Wow CC... That piece of random sentence generating software you use for your posts - is that something you have programmed yourself? Impressive piece of work...

 

[sniper]

Anybody know how quick they can get the result of the DEHP test? I know I'm clutching at straws here, but is it completely impossible that between morning and afternoon they had a report on elevated DEHP and then decided to do a urine ASAP (same night) in the hope of finding EPO?

Sounds possible and perhaps even plausible.

RE: "Immediately after the dope test, he could have taken a very small dose of clen to help with breathing, not expecting to be tested again until the following morning, when it should be cleared out of his system."
This, to me, sounds less plausible. From what I've read, clen sticks around for much longer, a couple of days at least. Contador must have known. My guess is really, in line with the guy cited in the HUMO article, that the clen found in his blood that day must have been a residue of older contaminated transfusionblood.

Going back to the credibility/authenticity of the HUMO article: I'd say, it's very credible/authentic. No reporter, not even a Belgian one, would (be able to) make up such a story, at the risk of loosing his job if it would later come out that he made it up. As to the HUMO source, it seemed to be a Belgian source, as he's cited saying "allez", typically Belgian. Of course, this could be the reporter's rephrasing of the interviewee's words, but a more straightforward explanation is that the source simply was Belgian.

 

[sniper]

well, of course the HUMO source could have been making up the story. but again, that is unlikely, regardless of the source's jobdescription (a soigneur, I guess).
If the story were fake, all three parties involved, the reporter, the magazine, and the source, would be having Contador's lawyers sueing their sorry asses as we speak. But that is rather unlikely to happen.