Wallace said:So what: the Chicken says he's innocent, and that's good enough for me.
JRTinMA said:The title of the article says Astana insider, I suppose that could be a lot of people beyond riders.
Race Radio said:Welcome back Chris. It is a good question. Regardless of when he took it Clen stays in your system for a while. I would assume a rider like Contador would be tested often in the run up to the Tour. It would seem like a big risk to take it even after DL. Does he get advanced notice of tests like Floyd and lance did?
Nothing in the article suggests he took the clen DURING the race, but plenty to suggest that, after the poor showing, and given the extra kilos he was carrying during the race, that he took the clen after the DL (when he was far less likely to be tested, and when it could be taken in a far more controlled training environment rather than during a stage race).
Because he wasn't tested at the German lab at the DL. That ruling came in 10 days before the Tour that CM wouldn't be used. Clen was on the "clear" list at that point.
hrotha said:This is almost too good to be true. Other forumers have questioned the credibility of the magazine.
If it's true, shouldn't it be someone from his gang to know that kind of stuff in such detail? My money's on Navarro, he wants to steal the spotlight and ride as a leader next year!
ChrisE said:Conclusion - since there was still clen when "He drained his blood when there was still a little bit of clenbuterol left in his blood." So, clen was left from his taking it during the DL. He drained it "between the DL and the tour". No other way to read this that he took it during the DL.
My original question still stands: Why didn't he test positive in the DL for clen?
It looks that way.thehog said:Because he wasn't tested at the German lab at the DL. That ruling came in 10 days before the Tour that CM wouldn't be used. Clen was on the "clear" list at that point.
You have to use it in combination with T3 [Triiodothyronine]. This is a thyroid hormone that helps in the digestion of fats. Then you have more rapid effect with a smaller dose of Clen. And the smaller the dose, the smaller the chance that you get caught.”
Mich78BEL said:Humo is a credible & respected magazine even though they can be provocative
spanky wanderlust said:it is also helpful to remember that he blew at 400x below the supposed testing threshold. so he must have thought he would be ok.
also, they had that paper sitting out there lobbing up the steak excuse for him if he was under a few hundred pg/ml. just in case.
WinterRider said:It was 40x lower than the minimum required detectable threshold, not 400. The 400 number comes from some early stories with poor math being employed. And bear in mind that if the clen came from a 150cc blood bag (this number is from the alleged inside source at Astana), the concentration inside that bag was at least 30 times higher. Which is very interesting.
Where did I get that number from? The internet gives a rough estimate o4 4.7 to 5.5 litres of blood for an adult between 150 and 180 pounds. Contador is about 140 pounds I think, but probably has a volume of blood that skews up. But lets say he has 4.5 litres. Divide 4.5 litres by 150 ccs and you get 30. So why is it interesting that that 150cc bag has this concentration of clen? Well it Contador had access to his own testing lab, they might have tested his blood after he took the clen, and as soon as the concentration dropped just below the minimum required detectable threshold (which the blood in the alleged 150cc bag would have been), they drew the blood.
The goal of course would have been to draw the blood as soon as it showed clear for clen, and as soon as possible before the tour so his body could replace the blood in time. It all fits pretty well, it the alleged astana insider is to be believed in.
WinterRider said:Your conclusion is incorrect. It's been pointed out above, but to reiterate, the original article said he was overweight at the......
WinterRider said:It was 40x lower than the minimum required detectable threshold, not 400. The 400 number comes from some early stories with poor math being employed. And bear in mind that if the clen came from a 150cc blood bag (this number is from the alleged inside source at Astana), the concentration inside that bag was at least 30 times higher. Which is very interesting.
Where did I get that number from? The internet gives a rough estimate o4 4.7 to 5.5 litres of blood for an adult between 150 and 180 pounds. Contador is about 140 pounds I think, but probably has a volume of blood that skews up. But lets say he has 4.5 litres. Divide 4.5 litres by 150 ccs and you get 30. So the concentration had to be 30 times higher in the bag to get the detected concentration once the infused blood mixed with the blood in his body.
So why is it interesting that that 150cc bag has this concentration of clen? Well it Contador had access to his own testing lab, they might have tested his blood after he took the clen, and as soon as the concentration dropped just below the minimum required detectable threshold (which the blood in the alleged 150cc bag would have been at 30/40 or 0.75 times the minimum required detectable threshold), they drew the blood.
The goal of course would have been to draw the blood as soon as it showed clear for clen, and as soon as possible before the tour so his body could replace the blood in time. It all fits pretty well, it the alleged astana insider is to be believed in. Too bad for Contador the germans had more sophisticated equipment than he did.
WinterRider said:It was 40x lower than the minimum required detectable threshold, not 400. The 400 number comes from some early stories with poor math being employed. And bear in mind that if the clen came from a 150cc blood bag (this number is from the alleged inside source at Astana), the concentration inside that bag was at least 30 times higher. Which is very interesting.
Where did I get that number from? The internet gives a rough estimate o4 4.7 to 5.5 litres of blood for an adult between 150 and 180 pounds. Contador is about 140 pounds I think, but probably has a volume of blood that skews up. But lets say he has 4.5 litres. Divide 4.5 litres by 150 ccs and you get 30. So the concentration had to be 30 times higher in the bag to get the detected concentration once the infused blood mixed with the blood in his body.
So why is it interesting that that 150cc bag has this concentration of clen? Well it Contador had access to his own testing lab, they might have tested his blood after he took the clen, and as soon as the concentration dropped just below the minimum required detectable threshold (which the blood in the alleged 150cc bag would have been at 30/40 or 0.75 times the minimum required detectable threshold), they drew the blood.
The goal of course would have been to draw the blood as soon as it showed clear for clen, and as soon as possible before the tour so his body could replace the blood in time. It all fits pretty well, it the alleged astana insider is to be believed in. Too bad for Contador the germans had more sophisticated equipment than he did.
Aguirre said:I had a look at Humo, that is serious journalism for you?
The world conspiracy against Alberto grows and grows... unstopable.
I hope there is over there critical people who disbelieve the way today media creates, fabricates, elaborates the TRUTH rather than represent IT.
Ok, one more time.ChrisE said:OK, you win. Hopefully CN will change the title of their article, and the contents of the first paragraph of their article. Else, this is perpetual disagreement.
mewmewmew13 said:'Bruyneel' was the first thing that came to my mind......
ChrisE said:Conclusion - since there was still clen when "He drained his blood when there was still a little bit of clenbuterol left in his blood." So, clen was left from his taking it during the DL. He drained it "between the DL and the tour". No other way to read this that he took it during the DL.
My original question still stands: Why didn't he test positive in the DL for clen?
davestoller said:People are arguing over when he may have done
it and whether it makes sense to THEM. Because somehow they cant wrap THEIR version of doping and reality around the actual facts of the case which are clear.
Here are the facts: there are lab tests indicating Contador took clen and transfused. In a specific race in a specific time frame. He is positive twice in two days. Not an accusation 5 years later hint hint.
Now a virtual eyewitness tells the story of how and why, specifically when and what. The story fits with everything that we already generally know about doping and how underform
and desperate Contador was.
and people are debating this? Hello?
Others in the thread are coming out and saying the magazine is not reliable and the source is not reliable. Interesting to note: if this kind of "source" gave the inside stort and detailed
practices surrounding specific doping practices
that led to an actual
adverse analytical finding or
positive test
in one Lance Armsrong, he would have already been convicted and executed.
Just saying. LA never tested positive. A dozen riders on USPS are saying they never saw or heard anything. Lets apply the same criteria of credibility how about?
In the meantime, its absolutely 99.999% clear what the deal is with Contador.