Astana rider details Contador's doping practices

[Aguirre]

hillarious, we will heard so many stories until the UCI says something.

What will be next one? Contador using NASA's methods or another link with Lance?

sounds a gossip talkshow!

 

[velogator]

So now they are microdosing blood...good stuff

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So what: the Chicken says he's innocent, and that's good enough for me.

What comes first, the chicken or the steak?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

The title of the article says Astana insider, I suppose that could be a lot of people beyond riders.

Oh ya. But if this story is true I really hope Conti does not do a Landis. I'd respect him a lot more if he tells the truth soon.

 

[ChrisE]

Welcome back Chris. It is a good question. Regardless of when he took it Clen stays in your system for a while. I would assume a rider like Contador would be tested often in the run up to the Tour. It would seem like a big risk to take it even after DL. Does he get advanced notice of tests like Floyd and lance did?

Thanks, but a day too late to give you grief about your inside info on what GH, Lim, etal said in the GJ. I will never get on Betsy's email list so all I can do is be jealous of you.

I have stated before, when the talk about LA get pre-warnings, protection from payoffs, etc. that I doubted very seriously he was the only one with this arrangement. We only know these things about LA due to SCA and FL emails.

Nothing in the article suggests he took the clen DURING the race, but plenty to suggest that, after the poor showing, and given the extra kilos he was carrying during the race, that he took the clen after the DL (when he was far less likely to be tested, and when it could be taken in a far more controlled training environment rather than during a stage race).

Mac, read my previous post. CN says exactly this, and the translation from the other poster on the previous page says the same thing.

Because he wasn't tested at the German lab at the DL. That ruling came in 10 days before the Tour that CM wouldn't be used. Clen was on the "clear" list at that point.

Yeah, and that is what is BS about this whole thing. There should be a minimum for this stuff, not "any amount" that can vary wildly between labs.

But, if he was tested when he was taking an amount in the DL that was enough to benefit him, it should've shown up regardless of the lab.

 

[Mich78BEL]

This is almost too good to be true. Other forumers have questioned the credibility of the magazine.

If it's true, shouldn't it be someone from his gang to know that kind of stuff in such detail? My money's on Navarro, he wants to steal the spotlight and ride as a leader next year!

Humo is a credible & respected magazine even though they can be provocative

 

[WinterRider]

Conclusion - since there was still clen when "He drained his blood when there was still a little bit of clenbuterol left in his blood." So, clen was left from his taking it during the DL. He drained it "between the DL and the tour". No other way to read this that he took it during the DL.

My original question still stands: Why didn't he test positive in the DL for clen?

Your conclusion is incorrect. It's been pointed out above, but to reiterate, the original article said he was overweight at the Dauphine, not that he took clen there. He took the clen immediately after (I presume) to drop that weight, then took some blood.

People are wondering why did he do all this mid-season? I offer the following as a possible explanation:

He lost the Dauphine to Brajkovic, and it made him realize he was in big trouble for the Tour. He hadn't been planning on using clen, or taking blood, but seeing his tour chances evaporate in front of his eyes, he made a last minute decision and went for it, clen to drop the kilos, and a last minute blood bag. As the tour was rapidly approaching, they didn't have time to wait for the clen to completely clear his system. Turns out he had just barely enough fitness to beat Andy, so I think this explanation is at least highly plausible.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Because he wasn't tested at the German lab at the DL. That ruling came in 10 days before the Tour that CM wouldn't be used. Clen was on the "clear" list at that point.

It looks that way.

It appears the Clen was the smaller part of the cocktail - to keep within the limit that they believed could be controlled for:

You have to use it in combination with T3 [Triiodothyronine]. This is a thyroid hormone that helps in the digestion of fats. Then you have more rapid effect with a smaller dose of Clen. And the smaller the dose, the smaller the chance that you get caught.”

 

[Aguirre]

Humo is a credible & respected magazine even though they can be provocative

I had a look at Humo, that is serious journalism for you?

The world conspiracy against Alberto grows and grows... unstopable.

I hope there is over there critical people who disbelieve the way today media creates, fabricates, elaborates the TRUTH rather than represent IT.

 

[JRTinMA]

Assuming the insider (cough Navarro) is correct could all the forum bull-winkles who said Clen could never be micro-dosed please come forward.

Thank you, that is all.

 

[WinterRider]

it is also helpful to remember that he blew at 400x below the supposed testing threshold. so he must have thought he would be ok.

also, they had that paper sitting out there lobbing up the steak excuse for him if he was under a few hundred pg/ml. just in case.

It was 40x lower than the minimum required detectable threshold, not 400. The 400 number comes from some early stories with poor math being employed. And bear in mind that if the clen came from a 150cc blood bag (this number is from the alleged inside source at Astana), the concentration inside that bag was at least 30 times higher. Which is very interesting.

Where did I get that number from? The internet gives a rough estimate o4 4.7 to 5.5 litres of blood for an adult between 150 and 180 pounds. Contador is about 140 pounds I think, but probably has a volume of blood that skews up. But lets say he has 4.5 litres. Divide 4.5 litres by 150 ccs and you get 30. So the concentration had to be 30 times higher in the bag to get the detected concentration once the infused blood mixed with the blood in his body.

So why is it interesting that that 150cc bag has this concentration of clen? Well it Contador had access to his own testing lab, they might have tested his blood after he took the clen, and as soon as the concentration dropped just below the minimum required detectable threshold (which the blood in the alleged 150cc bag would have been at 30/40 or 0.75 times the minimum required detectable threshold), they drew the blood.

The goal of course would have been to draw the blood as soon as it showed clear for clen, and as soon as possible before the tour so his body could replace the blood in time. It all fits pretty well, it the alleged astana insider is to be believed in. Too bad for Contador the germans had more sophisticated equipment than he did.

 

[JRTinMA]

It was 40x lower than the minimum required detectable threshold, not 400. The 400 number comes from some early stories with poor math being employed. And bear in mind that if the clen came from a 150cc blood bag (this number is from the alleged inside source at Astana), the concentration inside that bag was at least 30 times higher. Which is very interesting.

Where did I get that number from? The internet gives a rough estimate o4 4.7 to 5.5 litres of blood for an adult between 150 and 180 pounds. Contador is about 140 pounds I think, but probably has a volume of blood that skews up. But lets say he has 4.5 litres. Divide 4.5 litres by 150 ccs and you get 30. So why is it interesting that that 150cc bag has this concentration of clen? Well it Contador had access to his own testing lab, they might have tested his blood after he took the clen, and as soon as the concentration dropped just below the minimum required detectable threshold (which the blood in the alleged 150cc bag would have been), they drew the blood.

The goal of course would have been to draw the blood as soon as it showed clear for clen, and as soon as possible before the tour so his body could replace the blood in time. It all fits pretty well, it the alleged astana insider is to be believed in.

Oddly enough the early source was the UCI, who was actively involved in a cover up. It vanished from the press release days later without a trace or an edit.

 

[ChrisE]

Your conclusion is incorrect. It's been pointed out above, but to reiterate, the original article said he was overweight at the......

OK, you win. Hopefully CN will change the title of their article, and the contents of the first paragraph of their article. Else, this is perpetual disagreement.

Regardless, he should have been getting tested OOC. Why no clen positives?

 

[davestoller]

People are arguing over when he may have done
it and whether it makes sense to THEM. Because somehow they cant wrap THEIR version of doping and reality around the actual facts of the case which are clear.

Here are the facts: there are lab tests indicating Contador took clen and transfused. In a specific race in a specific time frame. He is positive twice in two days. Not an accusation 5 years later hint hint.

Now a virtual eyewitness tells the story of how and why, specifically when and what. The story fits with everything that we already generally know about doping and how underform
and desperate Contador was.

and people are debating this? Hello?

Others in the thread are coming out and saying the magazine is not reliable and the source is not reliable. Interesting to note: if this kind of "source" gave the inside stort and detailed
practices surrounding specific doping practices
that led to an actual
adverse analytical finding or
positive test
in one Lance Armsrong, he would have already been convicted and executed.

Just saying. LA never tested positive. A dozen riders on USPS are saying they never saw or heard anything. Lets apply the same criteria of credibility how about?
In the meantime, its absolutely 99.999% clear what the deal is with Contador.

 

[davestoller]

It was 40x lower than the minimum required detectable threshold, not 400. The 400 number comes from some early stories with poor math being employed. And bear in mind that if the clen came from a 150cc blood bag (this number is from the alleged inside source at Astana), the concentration inside that bag was at least 30 times higher. Which is very interesting.

Where did I get that number from? The internet gives a rough estimate o4 4.7 to 5.5 litres of blood for an adult between 150 and 180 pounds. Contador is about 140 pounds I think, but probably has a volume of blood that skews up. But lets say he has 4.5 litres. Divide 4.5 litres by 150 ccs and you get 30. So the concentration had to be 30 times higher in the bag to get the detected concentration once the infused blood mixed with the blood in his body.

So why is it interesting that that 150cc bag has this concentration of clen? Well it Contador had access to his own testing lab, they might have tested his blood after he took the clen, and as soon as the concentration dropped just below the minimum required detectable threshold (which the blood in the alleged 150cc bag would have been at 30/40 or 0.75 times the minimum required detectable threshold), they drew the blood.

The goal of course would have been to draw the blood as soon as it showed clear for clen, and as soon as possible before the tour so his body could replace the blood in time. It all fits pretty well, it the alleged astana insider is to be believed in. Too bad for Contador the germans had more sophisticated equipment than he did.

ummm...the concentration is the same in 1 cc as it is in 150 cc as it is in 4.5 liters. The concentration is the same, you mean the absolute amount perhaps? Concentration is in milligrams per milliliter, or nanograms per milliliter right?

 

[Aguirre]

micro dosing blood is a stupid argument, microdosing blood with Clen is even more ridiculous. Prehistoric.

It is as if Contador will be Jan Ulrich and needs to burn 10 kilos

It is as if Contador makes 80th in the Dauphine and suddenly gets nervous

It is as if Contador is not a meticolous rider that in winter is fat

I think he won 2 stages right? I think he was second close behind right? I think he was the strongest in Alpe d'Huez right?

I think he was 3rd in 2009, oh my god! worst that this year! Then more microdosing?

One kilo or two on top form is the perfect weight 3 weeks before the Tour.

That information only gives hopes (and makes muscle) to many of the conspiracy fantasies have been throw here for more than a week.

 

[icefire]

It was 40x lower than the minimum required detectable threshold, not 400. The 400 number comes from some early stories with poor math being employed. And bear in mind that if the clen came from a 150cc blood bag (this number is from the alleged inside source at Astana), the concentration inside that bag was at least 30 times higher. Which is very interesting.

Where did I get that number from? The internet gives a rough estimate o4 4.7 to 5.5 litres of blood for an adult between 150 and 180 pounds. Contador is about 140 pounds I think, but probably has a volume of blood that skews up. But lets say he has 4.5 litres. Divide 4.5 litres by 150 ccs and you get 30. So the concentration had to be 30 times higher in the bag to get the detected concentration once the infused blood mixed with the blood in his body.

So why is it interesting that that 150cc bag has this concentration of clen? Well it Contador had access to his own testing lab, they might have tested his blood after he took the clen, and as soon as the concentration dropped just below the minimum required detectable threshold (which the blood in the alleged 150cc bag would have been at 30/40 or 0.75 times the minimum required detectable threshold), they drew the blood.

The goal of course would have been to draw the blood as soon as it showed clear for clen, and as soon as possible before the tour so his body could replace the blood in time. It all fits pretty well, it the alleged astana insider is to be believed in. Too bad for Contador the germans had more sophisticated equipment than he did.

There's something missing in your maths. Clen was found in the urine test, not the blood test. Deriving clen concentration in urine from its concentration in blood is a bit more complex and surely doesn't lead to a 1/1 ratio.

 

[Mich78BEL]

I had a look at Humo, that is serious journalism for you?

The world conspiracy against Alberto grows and grows... unstopable.

I hope there is over there critical people who disbelieve the way today media creates, fabricates, elaborates the TRUTH rather than represent IT.

What would you call serious journalism these days?

I've been reading the magazine for more then 15 years.

Humo covers everything (politics, economics, sex, sports, movies & most of all music), they sometimes go far (very sharp to outright nasty humour) but for stories like these they don't take things lightly and when they say they talked to a source in or close to Astana then i don't see a reason to doubt it, having read the magazine for more then a decade.

 

[Aguirre]

Now a virtual eyewitness tells the story of how and why, specifically when and what. The story fits with everything that we already generally know about doping and how underform
and desperate Contador was.


I missed something in last Dauphine? Can't believe how naif people can be in this forum.

It is not repeat so many times that a rider should not be in top form at Dauphine in order to be competitive at the Tour. Why was contador desperate at Dauphine. I think he made the homework, same as the previous year, same as when Lance was beaten by Iban Mayo in 2004.

 

[Aguirre]

I was quoting the first paragraph of last post

 

[smaryka]

OK, you win. Hopefully CN will change the title of their article, and the contents of the first paragraph of their article. Else, this is perpetual disagreement.

Ok, one more time.

There is no disagreement. Whatever CN says doesn't matter, they aren't the original source of this information. They've merely either poorly translated or embellished the Belgian article.

The Belgian article does NOT state that he took it during the DL. It doesn't specifically say that he didn't either, but that doesn't mean CN's ridiculous headline is correct.

 

[Berzin]

'Bruyneel' was the first thing that came to my mind......

If it is Bruyneel then he's committing suicide. Because the doping, if described as being what went on in 2009, was done under his auspices.

As for the person who ratted Contador out, if he is a current Astana team member rest assured he will never ride or work for a pro Tour team ever again.

 

[Anonymous]

Conclusion - since there was still clen when "He drained his blood when there was still a little bit of clenbuterol left in his blood." So, clen was left from his taking it during the DL. He drained it "between the DL and the tour". No other way to read this that he took it during the DL.

My original question still stands: Why didn't he test positive in the DL for clen?

I think you are confusing the quote. It says that he was overweight during DL, and that is why he took Clen. You are interpreting it to mean he took it during the DL, and I think they mean that the reason he took it afterward was because he needed to lose a pound or two.

It also says:
"Contador finished second overall in the Dauphiné, but appeared to be below his usual strength there. He was beaten by an impressive Janez Brajkovic (Team RadioShack), who finished 1’41 ahead at the end of the event. Contador was only sixth behind Brajkovic in the time trial and was unable to drop his rival on the crucial stage to Alpe d’Huez, although he won the sprint to the line.

Contador needed to ensure that he would be at a better level in the Tour. At the time, he said that the first event would help him sharpen up for the second. Indeed, in recent years, riders who were at top strength in the Dauphiné tended to below-par in the Tour de France; those who performed better in the July event were able to improve from the their Dauphiné form rather than already being at a peak."


Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...rior-to-the-Tour-de-France.aspx#ixzz11negCh5M

 

[Aguirre]

then there is a contradiction, the headline says at criterium Dauphine Liberé, then the witness says "in between Dauphine and the Tour", that means, once contador was training hard in Navacerrada, was this insider a free spirit able to
follow Contador across time and space?

Cyclingnews looks more and more a "pink media".

 

[Anonymous]

People are arguing over when he may have done
it and whether it makes sense to THEM. Because somehow they cant wrap THEIR version of doping and reality around the actual facts of the case which are clear.

Here are the facts: there are lab tests indicating Contador took clen and transfused. In a specific race in a specific time frame. He is positive twice in two days. Not an accusation 5 years later hint hint.

Now a virtual eyewitness tells the story of how and why, specifically when and what. The story fits with everything that we already generally know about doping and how underform
and desperate Contador was.

and people are debating this? Hello?

Others in the thread are coming out and saying the magazine is not reliable and the source is not reliable. Interesting to note: if this kind of "source" gave the inside stort and detailed
practices surrounding specific doping practices
that led to an actual
adverse analytical finding or
positive test
in one Lance Armsrong, he would have already been convicted and executed.

Just saying. LA never tested positive. A dozen riders on USPS are saying they never saw or heard anything. Lets apply the same criteria of credibility how about?
In the meantime, its absolutely 99.999% clear what the deal is with Contador.

This article is about an Astana rider blowing the whistle on Contador. It has nothing to do with Asswipestrong. Take your doping apologist crap somewhere else.