At What Point Can We Get Rid of the Clinic?

[jmdirt]

Will cycling ever be able to be viewed without a clinic eye? What will it take to keep us from wrinkling up our foreheads over performances? 10% slower times for comparable courses? Two K slower average speed for comparable courses? What supplements do we stamp with an OK? Why? I don't ever expect (top) professional athletes to be squeaky clean, but what is the limit?

I'm just thinking/typing out loud...

 

[King Boonen]

Never.

 

[meat puppet]

What KB said.

Or sky buys CN.

 

[SeriousSam]

Top performances requiring very rare traits if clean is just another reason to think the top guys are doping. As far as I know, this type of calculation is only done in cycling. But people in other sports dope too. In many sports, they dope more than cyclists. Averages going down doesn't mean much because human sport isn't about absolute levels of performance. It's about relative levels, being better than someone else.

Thus the incentive to dope will always be strong and in the absence of testing counteracting that, the incidence of doping will always be high. It's hard to envision most athletes in any sport being clean. It could only happen with a paradigm change in the ability to detect PED use.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Why would any serious and hardcore cycling fan get rid of the clinic?

Sure, a "filter" is needed just like in any other place on the internet etc.

Where is the Hog?

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Why would any serious and hardcore cycling fan get rid of the clinic?

Sure, a "filter" is needed just like in any other place on the internet etc.

Where is the Hog?

viewtopic.php?p=1655783#p1655783

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I see extended vacation. He'll be back for the offseason no doubt.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Why would any serious and hardcore cycling fan get rid of the clinic?

Sure, a "filter" is needed just like in any other place on the internet etc.

Where is the Hog?

Maybe I should have said will cycling ever get to the point that we don't NEED the clinic? What would that point be?

 

[ebandit]

trust....................no-one!

Mark L

 

[hrotha]

We'll always need The Clinic because cycling will always have a past.

(And probably a present; but just for the sake of argument)

 

[gooner]

There will always be doping in sport.

It's the level of degree to its use which will regularly be in question.

 

[The Hitch]

Its kind of like asking if there will always be a police force, or will humans eventually all become benevolent and live happily ever after holding hands.

Different questions, but same answer.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Its kind of like asking if there will always be a police force, or will humans eventually all become benevolent and live happily ever after holding hands.

Different questions, but same answer.

Unfortunately.

 

[OldCranky]

Re:

We'll always need The Clinic because cycling will always have a past.

(And probably a present; but just for the sake of argument)

That was basically my answer. There hasn't been a day since the birth of cycling as a professional sport (or indeed an amateur one) when riders haven't sought to gain performance advances through dubious means, so why would I believe that such a day will arrive in the future?

Goldman is relevant here. As long as 50% or more of sportsmen would be happy to take a drug that guaranteed a win, even if it would kill them within 5 years, the clinic will be needed. Goldman's study was done with track althletes if I recall; I wouldn't be surprised if his typical 50% figure wasn't higher for cycling given how much the history of the sport is steeped in doping. Yes even compared to track and field.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

We'll always need The Clinic because cycling will always have a past.

(And probably a present; but just for the sake of argument)

That was basically my answer. There hasn't been a day since the birth of cycling as a professional sport (or indeed an amateur one) when riders haven't sought to gain performance advances through dubious means, so why would I believe that such a day will arrive in the future?

Goldman is relevant here. As long as 50% or more of sportsmen would be happy to take a drug that guaranteed a win, even if it would kill them within 5 years, the clinic will be needed. Goldman's study was done with track althletes if I recall; I wouldn't be surprised if his typical 50% figure wasn't higher for cycling given how much the history of the sport is steeped in doping. Yes even compared to track and field.

Pretty sure no one was ever able to repeat Goldmans work though.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

I see extended vacation. He'll be back for the offseason no doubt.

Way sooner.

In a month and six days.

 

[mikez]

Get rid of the clinic?!?! It's the most entertaining part of Cyclingnews.

 

[jmdirt]

As we all agree cycling, just like other pro sports, has had, and will continue to have people trying whatever it takes to win. With that being said, I don't think that Froome is any dirtier than anyone else in the platoon he just happens to be winning.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Pretty sure no one was ever able to repeat Goldmans work though.

partly it is because of social engineering. and you get the people like Cavendish who have learned to provide bromides and motherhood statements on anti-doping.

an anonymous questionnaire you say?

a survey is never anonymous, you have to first deal with the subject lying to him/her self.

 

[dwyatt]

Once genetically engineered humans are a reality - becuase then you just have to give up.

 

[keeponrollin]

Re:

Once genetically engineered humans are a reality - becuase then you just have to give up.

Or the UCI under new president-for-life, Sir Dave Brailsford, give up the pretense of clean cycling & allow full on unrestricted doping ....
at which point the clinic becomes a place where cynics play, 'spot the clean cyclist' ...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Why would any serious and hardcore cycling fan get rid of the clinic?

Sure, a "filter" is needed just like in any other place on the internet etc.

Where is the Hog?

Maybe I should have said will cycling ever get to the point that we don't NEED the clinic? What would that point be?

Never. Too much money at the sports federation's level with doping being a nice revenue generator.

 

[bikinggirl]

Instead of the clinic we could call it the SKY train.

 

[Energy Starr]

When there are no more people who argue the winner of the TDF is cleans.

 

[jmdirt]

What? The clinic is people arguing that everyone is dirty.