At what point do you turn off the TV and give up on the Tour?

[Magnus]

I'm not turning of. I don't expect everyday to be about the GC. I expect most days to not be about the GC. If you only watch for GC action I understand that you might find this race boring. But then you should find more or less any Grand Tour boring. I also don't understand people who rates the excitement of the race based on the results. For me it's about the journey not the destination.

 

[Futuroscope]

MOD NOTE: How ofen must we say that doping references are not allowed outside of the forum?

 

[Marco Pantani]

Here I am.

 

[Futuroscope]

I'm not turning of. I don't expect everyday to be about the GC. I expect most days to not be about the GC. If you only watch for GC action I understand that you might find this race boring. But then you should find more or less any Grand Tour boring. I also don't understand people who rates the excitement of the race based on the results. For me it's about the journey not the destination.

I have watched many Grand Tours. There doesn't have to be GC action all the time but you can tell when the GC pulse is dead. And it's dead in this race. None of the GC contenders are strong enough to make a difference. There is only defence and sky controlling the race. In a real race (with proper attacks in the mountains) Froome would be ahead of Wiggins.

 

[Eshnar]

Bring back Pantani

I'm afraid it's impossible.

 

[Bill Murray]

I think it's fair to say that we wouldn't spend all that time posting on cycling forums if we didn't enjoy the sport.
I'm watching the Tour de Pologne as we speak though.

Maybe I was wrong. There are doubtless dozens of posts you can cite where he says positive things about the sport he loves so dearly?

 

[PhiberAwptik]

hog has nearly 6,000 posts. Rhubroma has over 3,000. I have over 9,000. I think it's fair to say that we wouldn't spend all that time posting on cycling forums if we didn't enjoy the sport. It's not that I've sought out this website to tell cycling fans that the sport is boring, because it's not. It's not because I don't understand the sport that I'm finding this race boring, because I do. It's that I've seen a lot of good races in the time I've been following the sport, and this is none of them.

I didn't watch any of the Tour until stage 5, and haven't watched any since La Toussuire.

I'm watching the Tour de Pologne as we speak though.

Really most of Hog's posts are Clinic, or being a cnut about cycling in general. It seems like a lot of you go to such great trouble to just complain about anything possible. Most regulars here don't act like fans, they just look like they hang around waiting for something to ***** about or to make up some conspiracy thery.

 

[Futuroscope]

Here I am.

Please attack!

 

[Futuroscope]

I'm afraid it's impossible.


Doping does not have anything to do with exciting races.

Doping has everything to do with exciting races (Grand Tours) unless they completely change the courses.

 

[marioni]

It's been poor and disappointing. Worst GT of recent years. Awful course. Where are the MTFs??? I'll still watch it till the end even if the winner was known when the race course was first announced.

But what I'm really looking for is Vuelta and proper mountain stages.

 

[rhubroma]

Maybe I was wrong. There are doubtless dozens of posts you can cite where he says positive things about the sport he loves so dearly?

Right. Real fans are never critical of the sport they love.

Yours is a classical conservative mentality that places anything you believe in beyond criticism, which is a horrible way of thinking. I have always found that mentality to be the most distasteful and ambarassing of positions.

Great cycling is when there are courses that promote attacking among the GC contenders. This is not the case, so it is boring.

 

[Eshnar]

Doping has everything to do with exciting races (Grand Tours) unless they completely change the courses.

Meaning?
Cycling was an exciting sport in early 1900 they say. Doping?
There have always been a lot of good races, both in the past and in these times. And there have been a lot of crappy races too. You know, stages like this one used to happen in '80s and '90's too. So why should doping be involved?

 

[Magnus]

I have watched many Grand Tours. There doesn't have to be GC action all the time but you can tell when the GC pulse is dead. And it's dead in this race. None of the GC contenders are strong enough to make a difference. There is only defence and sky controlling the race. In a real race (with proper attacks in the mountains) Froome would be ahead of Wiggins.

I just like to watch things play out. I like watching Sky control things massively. I like when somebody attacks and smash things to pieces. To me it's more about how things happen and not so much about what happens.

Did you like the '12 Giro? Did you like the '11 Giro?

When Armstrong rode I felt the GC pulse was dead as you describe (maybe except for '03). But in recent years I've enjoyed the GTs a lot.

 

[Eshnar]

It's been poor and disappointing. Worst GT of recent years. Awful course. Where are the MTFs??? I'll still watch it till the end even if the winner was known when the race course was first announced.

But what I'm really looking for is Vuelta and proper mountain stages.

"Vuelta" and "proper mountain stages" in the same sentence must be a semantic error.

 

[Bill Murray]

Right. Real fans are never critical of the sport they love.

I did not say never. You're clearly friends with the guy and can remember a time where he praised the sport? Example?

Scanning his recent post history, I cannot find anything positive whatsoever. Now he tells us to turn the TV off. Seems to me we have a long time troll on our hands.

 

[Futuroscope]

Meaning?
Cycling was an exciting sport in early 1900 they say. Doping?
There have always been a lot of good races, both in the past and it these times. And there have been a lot of crappy races too. You know, stages like this one used to happen in '80s and '90's too. So why should doping be involved?

With (more) doping there are offensive attacks..attacks that make a difference and cause other GC contenders to crack. With less doping you only see people crack from mileage/bad days (unless you find last 500m attacks to be exciting....attacks that mean nothing compared to time trials).

Of course not every stage can be exciting but with less doping the dynamics of the Tours change.

One day races can be exciting with less doping but GTs are another story.

 

[Eshnar]

With doping there are offensive attacks..attacks that make a difference and cause other GC contenders to crack. With less doping you only see people crack from mileage/bad days (unless you find last 500m attacks to be exciting....attacks that mean nothing compared to time trials).

What do you base this sentence on?
As I said, attacks were there long before doping appeared.
Doping has the only effect of increasing the average speed of the peloton. We could stretch that saying that doping made climbs like Aspin completely irrelevant GC-wise. Once upon a time climbs at 5% made differences. Now they don't. Guess why.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

As I said, attacks were there long before doping appeared.

Without going to much into Clinic topics - doping was always in the sport and will always be there in some shape or form.

 

[Futuroscope]

I just like to watch things play out. I like watching Sky control things massively. I like when somebody attacks and smash things to pieces. To me it's more about how things happen and not so much about what happens.

Did you like the '12 Giro? Did you like the '11 Giro?

When Armstrong rode I felt the GC pulse was dead as you describe (maybe except for '03). But in recent years I've enjoyed the GTs a lot.

I like to watch knowing that someone could blow up the field. It doesn't have to happen every stage. But the pulse has to be there.

When Armstrong rode he was generally very strong. Yes some years he had a very strong team and I didn't necessarily like that either.

But in a true race Froome is stronger than Wiggins in the mountains.

 

[Eshnar]

Without going to much into Clinic topics - doping was always in the sport and will always be there in some shape or form.

What doping were there in the '10s?
Anyway, if you're right, doping is today too (which I believe too), so dull races still have nothing to do with presence/absence of doping

 

[Futuroscope]

What do you base this sentence on?
As I said, attacks were there long before doping appeared.
Doping has the only effect of increasing the average speed of the peloton. We could stretch that saying that doping made climbs like Aspin completely irrelevant GC-wise. Once upon a time climbs at 5% made differences. Now they don't. Guess why.

Wrong. Doping does much more than simply make the races go faster. Didn't you watch any races in the 90s? Did you see Pantani attack? Pantani could attack 10k from the finish and blow the field to pieces. Anything could happen when he attacked. Sometimes he failed but you would see exciting counter attacks. I don't like Armstrong but did you see him at the 99 Tour de France?

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Take the doping talk to the Clinic. Or else.

Susan

 

[rhubroma]

I did not say never. You're clearly friends with the guy and can remember a time where he praised the sport? Example?

Scanning his recent post history, I cannot find anything positive whatsoever. Now he tells us to turn the TV off. Seems to me we have a long time troll on our hands.

Pardon. I initially thought you were referring to me. But I let you in on something: he was being facetious.
At any rate the course has much to do with whether we get an aggressive, attacking race everybody likes to see, or a dull controlled race everyone loaths. No offence to Sanchez, Sagan et al, but the second Sunday into the friggin race you need to give the spectators a bit more than a castrated Pyrenean stage. If the organizers were a marketing team then they have utterly failed to sell their product on this one.

It makes me wonder does the ASO have a f-ucking clue that more fans will be able to watch on a Sunday than during the week, that Sunday is itself a leisure day that demands having a great stage to watch at the Tour de France and that this is what the fans expect? Though what did they choose to provide? A race for a long break, with the GC favorites forced to ride conservatively because any attack on the last climb would have given them only a marginal return on their investment and probably nada. And this, by the way, is exactly what we all saw.

No. This course sucked, the Alpes were a disappointment, the Pyrenees offer only one MTF. Vote: 3 out of 10. This Tour blows, because this course blows. Period.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's been poor and disappointing. Worst GT of recent years. Awful course. Where are the MTFs??? I'll still watch it till the end even if the winner was known when the race course was first announced.

But what I'm really looking for is Vuelta and proper mountain stages.

Nonsense. 2004 and 2009 were worse.

The Vuelta only has 3 proper mountain stages - the one to Ancares, the one to Cuitu Negru and the one to Bola del Mundo. Maybe Lagos de Covadonga if I'm charitable. The rest of the mountain stages are either medium mountain at best off less than impressive run-ins (Arrate, Fuente Dé) or more-or-less one-climb stages (Andorra, Valdezcaray). And on two of those proper mountain stages I fear that the super-hard last 3km may neutralise racing prior to that, meaning we could be in for some epic finales on the end of somewhat disappointing stages.

Hopefully we do at least get those epic finales. I think most people came away from Peña Cabarga last year saying it was exciting.

 

[The Cobra]

Don't we seem to say the same every year at the Tour. Possibility of an interesting descent but put waaayyy too far from the finish so no one bothers to waste the energy in a futile attack.

These stages are designed purely for break aways as the French know thats their best chance of a win, and a Tour with no French stage wins is a major fail for ASO.

Surely 'experienced' cycling fans know this though, don't turn on a flat stage with three hours to go and complain of boring racing.