Bahrain - Merida Pro Cycling Team

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

They are American companies who work under the American Flag - And i'd argue every country is involved in human rights abuse - Stop being selective and hypocritical with your Faux Outrage over human rights abuses. -

You're grasping at straws here, mate.

 

[HelloDolly]

I agree re the level of hypocrisy re Bahrain while US & UK torture people in planes flying all over the place ...but that is ok ? Bahrain have treated their rebel population appalling but tell me has Saudia Arabia done any better and think of that when you fill up your car with petrol. If your sensibilities are offended by Bahrain then maybe walk
Or maybe China is ok ?? Or Russia who murder dissidents on the streets of London And destroyed the whole of Chechnya...how is this any different ..Didn't Oleg Tinkov make his money out of the emergence of Putin in Russia

I don;t condone torture but the west is so hypocritical about this ....
And besides if we want to engender change being outraged won't do....maybe we try to bring them into the 21st century

 

[Hakkapelit]

Re: Re:

Majka and Nibali seem on good terms so that wouldn't surprise me.

I wonder (hope) that this is Majka accepting his role as a domestique instead of his current pattern of collecting anonymous top 10s and once in a while very half-heartedly riding for Contador

Well, flame him as a team leader all you want, but I wouldn't call his domestique work half-heartedly

Maybe you are right, but it seems easier to conjure up memories of him halfassing it rahter than burying himself. I don't think he's a bad teamleader but his GC-campaingns are rather dull.

 

[FilipeFD]

Re: Re:

Majka and Nibali seem on good terms so that wouldn't surprise me.

I wonder (hope) that this is Majka accepting his role as a domestique instead of his current pattern of collecting anonymous top 10s and once in a while very half-heartedly riding for Contador

why would Majka take the role of domestique? is Nibali going for the 3 GT of the season?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Hopefully this will create a lot of new jobs and hopefully, Nibali with be surrounded by a little more capable people than Jesus Hernandez and Benjamin Noval.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Cycling needs to grab sponsorship dollars and investors in new teams. Cycling sponsorship is extremely cyclical as we've seen with the number of teams and sponsors who come and go. Cycling should be doing more to get investors from Asia and South America and the Middle East. Whether a team is bankrolled by Bahrain or China or Argentina is irrelevant - The WT teams still race primarily in Europe and of course have riders from throughout the world.

A bigger issue is the quality of races in developing cycling nations, though at the same time sponsors want to get a bang for their bucks.

Sponorship from people who not only endorse torture but are activly involved in it surely is a step if not many steps to far

Well we may as well stop seeking sponsorship dollars from American companies - Does Guantanamo Bay ring a bell.

Do you have a link to Cannondale being linked to torture? Has Jelly Belly been oppressing Americans human rights? I can't remember BMC running Guantanamo but I could be wrong on that. The Bahraini team is being set up by the Prince who has been credibly linked to the ordering and performing torture himself, the main funding is coming from the Bahraini regime and the licence if awarded will be to the Prince so again explain to me why this isn't a step to far?

They are American companies who work under the American Flag - And i'd argue every country is involved in human rights abuse - Stop being selective and hypocritical with your Faux Outrage over human rights abuses. -

How is Faux outrage? Again the comapnies have not been directly involved in any tortue (amongst other very dubious things the Prince has done) so please explain to me how they are similar to the torturing Prince? I am genuinely outraged by ALL human rights abuses including one's currently being performed by my own countries Government in regards to how we are treating refugees and our own indigenous people, I voice my objections to these quite loudly and have done some work for the Aboriginal legal centre just as I am voicing my objections to this shady disgusting Prince and his play toy of a cycling project.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Cycling needs to grab sponsorship dollars and investors in new teams. Cycling sponsorship is extremely cyclical as we've seen with the number of teams and sponsors who come and go. Cycling should be doing more to get investors from Asia and South America and the Middle East. Whether a team is bankrolled by Bahrain or China or Argentina is irrelevant - The WT teams still race primarily in Europe and of course have riders from throughout the world.

A bigger issue is the quality of races in developing cycling nations, though at the same time sponsors want to get a bang for their bucks.

Sponorship from people who not only endorse torture but are activly involved in it surely is a step if not many steps to far

Well we may as well stop seeking sponsorship dollars from American companies - Does Guantanamo Bay ring a bell.

Do you have a link to Cannondale being linked to torture? Has Jelly Belly been oppressing Americans human rights? I can't remember BMC running Guantanamo but I could be wrong on that. The Bahraini team is being set up by the Prince who has been credibly linked to the ordering and performing torture himself, the main funding is coming from the Bahraini regime and the licence if awarded will be to the Prince so again explain to me why this isn't a step to far?

They are American companies who work under the American Flag - And i'd argue every country is involved in human rights abuse - Stop being selective and hypocritical with your Faux Outrage over human rights abuses. -

Yes let's just don't care about torture surpression snd grab them dollah dollah bills ya'll!

People like you who just don't care about a thing are a bigger provlem.

Ofcourse if the US government decidedto sponsor a team you can hold the same arguments against that team, but a company located in the US is still free to do what they want and most of them do not torture their employees, allthough sometimes it's almost torture

 

[Hgriffiths2606]

Re:

I agree re the level of hypocrisy re Bahrain while US & UK torture people in planes flying all over the place ...but that is ok ? Bahrain have treated their rebel population appalling but tell me has Saudia Arabia done any better and think of that when you fill up your car with petrol. If your sensibilities are offended by Bahrain then maybe walk
Or maybe China is ok ?? Or Russia who murder dissidents on the streets of London And destroyed the whole of Chechnya...how is this any different ..Didn't Oleg Tinkov make his money out of the emergence of Putin in Russia

I don;t condone torture but the west is so hypocritical about this ....
And besides if we want to engender change being outraged won't do....maybe we try to bring them into the 21st century

He doesn't mean that, the entire Bahrain Royal family have blood on their hands after to 2011 uprising, the difference is that Jonathan Vaughters and Dave Brailsford are not or have never been in direct contact with the gross human right abuses committed in their country, the likelihood is that the whole of Bahrain's royal family has at some point

 

[Krokro]

Can you end the debate or keep it going in a politically related topic ? I mean it's interesting, but for the atmosphere here it would be better to stick to cycling. Nope ?

 

[Praying Mantis]

Re:

Can you end the debate or keep it going in a politically related topic ? I mean it's interesting, but for the atmosphere here it would be better to stick to cycling. Nope ?

Nobody wants to see the topic get out of hand, but personally I believe it's important and interesting to look at the bigger scheme of things and how this team will affect the world of cycling. Limiting the discussion to just transfer rumours and the like would be a shame, in my opinion. It's a controversial team.

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

Can you end the debate or keep it going in a politically related topic ? I mean it's interesting, but for the atmosphere here it would be better to stick to cycling. Nope ?

Nobody wants to see the topic get out of hand, but personally I believe it's important and interesting to look at the bigger scheme of things and how this team will affect the world of cycling. Limiting the discussion to just transfer rumours and the like would be a shame, in my opinion. It's a controversial team.

100% right to stick to the facts. I even have my opinion already on that kind of team. But it is going to "escalate quickly" if it goes too political (USA>Bahrein, geopolitics stuffs).

 

[kareeem]

Re: The Kingdom of Bahrain Cycling Team

Who cares where the money comes from. I don't care if ISIS funds them or Murdoch personally, at the end of the day Kings and Princes and whoever won't have a say in it, it's not like they will be the ones making decisions on the road. There will be a team with (hopefully) good cyclists and directors who have never even visited Bahrain and if they will make racing exciting I'm all for it.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: The Kingdom of Bahrain Cycling Team

Who cares where the money comes from. I don't care if ISIS funds them or Murdoch personally, at the end of the day Kings and Princes and whoever won't have a say in it, it's not like they will be the ones making decisions on the road. There will be a team with (hopefully) good cyclists and directors who have never even visited Bahrain and if they will make racing exciting I'm all for it.

As much as Murdoch is a corrupt tw*t, I feel slinging him into the same sentence as ISIS may be slightly off.

I also disagree with the rest of your post. These people have the money to build a cycling team based no small part on which family they were born and how quickly the crushed the 2011 uprising. They are where they are because of blood on their hands. I do not want the money in cycling to be blood money, or corrupt money. The money is the starting point of every single cycling team. Without it, there would be no project. And here, the money comes from a murderous royal family.

 

[janraaskalt2]

Re:

Can you end the debate or keep it going in a politically related topic ? I mean it's interesting, but for the atmosphere here it would be better to stick to cycling. Nope ?

I fully agree. Better to start a separate thread in another part of this forum, more suitable for (geo)political debate.

 

[VO2 Max]

Re: Re:

Can you end the debate or keep it going in a politically related topic ? I mean it's interesting, but for the atmosphere here it would be better to stick to cycling. Nope ?

I fully agree. Better to start a separate thread in another part of this forum, more suitable for (geo)political debate.

It's not really a political debate though is it - simply that pro cycling should have some sort of 'fit and proper person' test to stop it being used to launder reputations at the expense of its own. And it needs to come from the UCI. This situation is not fair on the riders whose careers are short, opportunities are limited and who carry all the risk here. If a young rider is offered big €€€ and chances to win big races then why should he have to do his own homework on where the money's coming from, whether he's prepared to ride around with those logo's on, and ultimately whether to unilaterally limit his own career?

A lot of the talk here is just any money is good money That's a totally separate debate from one about who's least bad between Bahrain, Saudi, ISIS or the USA?

 

[janraaskalt2]

Re: Re:

Can you end the debate or keep it going in a politically related topic ? I mean it's interesting, but for the atmosphere here it would be better to stick to cycling. Nope ?

I fully agree. Better to start a separate thread in another part of this forum, more suitable for (geo)political debate.

It's not really a political debate though is it - simply that pro cycling should have some sort of 'fit and proper person' test to stop it being used to launder reputations at the expense of its own. And it needs to come from the UCI. This situation is not fair on the riders whose careers are short, opportunities are limited and who carry all the risk here. If a young rider is offered big €€€ and chances to win big races then why should he have to do his own homework on where the money's coming from, whether he's prepared to ride around with those logo's on, and ultimately whether to unilaterally limit his own career?

A lot of the talk here is just any money is good money That's a totally separate debate from one about who's least bad between Bahrain, Saudi, ISIS or the USA?

If it has a wider scope than this team, create a separate thread "UCI facilitates money and image laundering" or whatever. Leave this topic for discussing the sporting aspects of this new team.

 

[Krokro]

Im really keen to speak about ethics in cycling but as previous poster said it right : keeping sport intels for those who come here to inform about what budget this team will have, expected riders, rumours etc...
Just my opinion, I won't debate any longer about that but I originally said this to keep the topic relevant in a good atmosphere

 

[Pippo_San]

Moreover it's hard to speak about ethics when you already have some rotten to the core UCI heads, investment funds, banks, the Kazakhstan dollars and even freaking Gazprom as sponsors.
Just to mention a few.

It seems to me that where there's money there's corruption and greed at best.

Let's just enjoy a new team for the pro movement.

 

[yaco]

US Postal was a key sponsor of cycling - Fairly certain its been a Government Agency for most of its existence.

Agree with Pippo San - Lets welcome new money into cycling.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

Can you end the debate or keep it going in a politically related topic ? I mean it's interesting, but for the atmosphere here it would be better to stick to cycling. Nope ?

Sport and politics are indissociable in this case because the sporting team's raison d'être is to be a political propaganda tool.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I agree re the level of hypocrisy re Bahrain while US & UK torture people in planes flying all over the place ...but that is ok ? Bahrain have treated their rebel population appalling but tell me has Saudia Arabia done any better and think of that when you fill up your car with petrol. If your sensibilities are offended by Bahrain then maybe walk
Or maybe China is ok ?? Or Russia who murder dissidents on the streets of London And destroyed the whole of Chechnya...how is this any different ..Didn't Oleg Tinkov make his money out of the emergence of Putin in Russia

I don;t condone torture but the west is so hypocritical about this ....
And besides if we want to engender change being outraged won't do....maybe we try to bring them into the 21st century

He doesn't mean that, the entire Bahrain Royal family have blood on their hands after to 2011 uprising, the difference is that Jonathan Vaughters and Dave Brailsford are not or have never been in direct contact with the gross human right abuses committed in their country, the likelihood is that the whole of Bahrain's royal family has at some point

Who mentioned anything about Vaughters or Brailsford ? I mentioned the hypocrisy of pointing the finger at Bahrain when we use Saudi oil everyday and have team owners like Katushas, or Tinkov ...and where we have bike races in the middle east already and had one in China...I guess you don't get the point of my argument ...nothing new there
and people are just as guilty if they order torture than if they do it with their own hands ...US/Russian governments have ordered it ... but as I said there is such hypocrisy over this in the west

 

[kareeem]

Re: The Kingdom of Bahrain Cycling Team

Who cares where the money comes from. I don't care if ISIS funds them or Murdoch personally, at the end of the day Kings and Princes and whoever won't have a say in it, it's not like they will be the ones making decisions on the road. There will be a team with (hopefully) good cyclists and directors who have never even visited Bahrain and if they will make racing exciting I'm all for it.

As much as Murdoch is a corrupt tw*t, I feel slinging him into the same sentence as ISIS may be slightly off.

I also disagree with the rest of your post. These people have the money to build a cycling team based no small part on which family they were born and how quickly the crushed the 2011 uprising. They are where they are because of blood on their hands. I do not want the money in cycling to be blood money, or corrupt money. The money is the starting point of every single cycling team. Without it, there would be no project. And here, the money comes from a murderous royal family.

I didn't mean to imply he was as bad as ISIS lol, I just used him as an example of someone who is basically funding the richest team in the peloton. I don't really care where the money comes from, that was my point (although I'd definitely care if ISIS were funding a team tbh, it was just an exaggeration). If the Bahrain team will have great riders and exciting tactics, why should I care who is paying them? Are there people who don't enjoy Sagan's racing just because Tinkov is paying him?

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: The Kingdom of Bahrain Cycling Team

I didn't mean to imply he was as bad as ISIS lol, I just used him as an example of someone who is basically funding the richest team in the peloton. I don't really care where the money comes from, that was my point (although I'd definitely care if ISIS were funding a team tbh, it was just an exaggeration). If the Bahrain team will have great riders and exciting tactics, why should I care who is paying them? Are there people who don't enjoy Sagan's racing just because Tinkov is paying him?

Well, there's your problem.

 

[El Pistolero]

If you're not going to support this cycling team because it represents a despotic country I also hope you don't have a bank account... Because they do a *** ton of business with shady as *** countries like Iraq, Iran (despite this actually being illegal for the time being because of the trade embargoes, they'll always find loopholes), Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arabian Emirates, Egypt, etc.

While I was working at ING Belgium I think around 80% of the bills from big companies we processed were sent to countries from the Middle-East. And they weren't harmless products either: lot's of weapons are being shipped to Saudi Arabia from Belgium.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

If you're not going to support this cycling team because it represents a despotic country I also hope you don't have a bank account... Because they do a **** ton of business with shady as **** countries like Iraq, Iran (despite this actually being illegal for the time being because of the trade embargoes, they'll always find loopholes), Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arabian Emirates, Egypt, etc.

While I was working at ING Belgium I think around 80% of the bills from big companies we processed were sent to countries from the Middle-East. And they weren't harmless products either: lot's of weapons are being shipped to Saudi Arabia from Belgium.

Yeah,its so funny how people can be delusional.All this middle east "crisis" applied on "ohhh lets stop all the trade and contact with middle-east" is hillarious,most of us dont realize that it would have probbly even worse outcome...

And applied on cylcling business,cmonnn