Teams & Riders Bahrain

[ppanther92]

This is interesting for a few reasons. Anyone remember when French anti-doping was at the forefront of catching all cheats? I wonder what has changed with respect to the UCI and certain teams?

Anti-doping agency and French police communicating over Bahrain Victorious Tour de France raid

Dylan Teuns reveals his mobile phone was seized during search

www.cyclingnews.com

I actually liked those years. Ok, it obviously was hard for cycling in the public's eye when every year riders directly got expelled from the TdF and even big names were caught but it kind of gave me the feeling "at least they try".

What changed? Pure speculation but we know part of Armstrongs "system" was the UCI protection. US market + cancer story equals money. Think with Sky you can argue the same thing on a smaller scale UK market + marginal gains/billharzia. I also favoured very much the ASO/AFLD years over UCI testing.

Wonder how the Rasmussen saga would have played out today...

But also very OT.

 

[Ripper]

I actually liked those years. Ok, it obviously was hard for cycling in the public's eye when every year riders directly got expelled from the TdF and even big names were caught but it kind of gave me the feeling "at least they try".

What changed? Pure speculation but we know part of Armstrongs "system" was the UCI protection. US market + cancer story equals money. Think with Sky you can argue the same thing on a smaller scale UK market + marginal gains/billharzia. I also favoured very much the ASO/AFLD years over UCI testing.

Wonder how the Rasmussen saga would have played out today...

But also very OT.

Good points. The UCI and ASO also appear to be very tight now, and the UCI also has some very interesting political-financial interests.

The dictator, the oligarch and the UCI president

When politics, business and sport collide: the strange story of international cycling's dance with one of the world's most notorious dictators.

cyclingtips.com

 

[fmk_RoI]

Anyone remember when French anti-doping was at the forefront of catching all cheats? I

Er, no, remind us? Apart from Festina (very few convictions in the end, given the amount of arrests) and Cofidis (their one true success), what have they actually done successfully?

 

[Ripper]

Er, no, remind us? Apart from Festina (very few convictions in the end, given the amount of arrests) and Cofidis (their one true success), what have they actually done successfully?

Was it 2008 where they did a lot more testing and actually popped bigger names within the races? Or was that different? Going off memory here, so perhaps I'm wrong

 

[ppanther92]

Was it 2008 where they did a lot more testing and actually popped bigger names within the races? Or was that different? Going off memory here, so perhaps I'm wrong

Yes, also think it was 2008.

 

[samhocking]

This !

And if they want to actually catch someone; they send squads to every team hotel on the 2nd rest day, & secure them, & the buses, & go thru all the riders looking for needle marks.

Was it 2008 where they did a lot more testing and actually popped bigger names within the races? Or was that different? Going off memory here, so perhaps I'm wrong

Not a lot more testing, but was the first year CERA was detectable and because AFLD looked after anti-doping that year got the CERA haul of Riccò, Piepoli, Schumacher & Kohl in one go.

 

[Ripper]

Not a lot more testing, but was the first year CERA was detectable and because AFLD looked after anti-doping that year got the CERA haul of Riccò, Piepoli, Schumacher & Kohl in one go.

I thought there were some opinions that AFLD were a bit more proactive than previous years, with all the stuff that happened in 2006, 2007, and 2008? Perhaps my memory is not as good as I would hope!

 

[fmk_RoI]

Was it 2008 where they did a lot more testing and actually popped bigger names within the races? Or was that different? Going off memory here, so perhaps I'm wrong

So, in the last 25 years, that's two interventions from the police and one from the anti-doping authorities. And nothing in the last dozen years.

Do you ever get the feeling that sometimes we oversell these things, just a tad? That we have a rather rose-tinted picture of the past, that we dream of these guys swooping in from the wings and saving us?

 

[kingjr]

I think to some degree Bahrain is now indeed scapegoated. Like they are still not winning "big". I agree ofc, and brought it up myself during the Giro, that they look very strong. In fact stronger than they ever did. But the big fishes with above the rest performances are still Jumbo and Pogacar on GC level, as well as DQS in their classics/sprinter specialisation. They actually do things that others can't.

So, if Jack Haig doesn't crash and rides for a podium, the investigation doesn't happen?

 

[pastronef]

are we aware that Mohoric was 10 when Lance did that gesture, and pro cyclist are not spending their time watching gifs of Lance on internet?
I mean, ok, I get it, but he has no *** clue Lance did the same gesture
they live in their own zone, sleep train eat and repeat, and focus and ride the races. we can´t look at them from the outside thinking pro cyclist see it and get it as we do

 

[fmk_RoI]

are we aware that Mohoric was 10 when Lance did that gesture

Since LA got busted eight years ago ago there's been dozens of films, books, articles about him, many mentioning that gesture (including in the most recent offer, Marina Zenovich's much talked out ESPN docu). Maybe Mohorič has somehow managed to avoid all mention of Armstrong. Maybe he didn't even know who Merckx was today on the podium.

 

[Cagalitroso]

Since LA got busted eight years ago ago there's been dozens of films, books, articles about him, many mentioning that gesture (including in the most recent offer, Marina Zenovich's much talked out ESPN docu). Maybe Mohorič has somehow managed to avoid all mention of Armstrong. Maybe he didn't even know who Merckx was today on the podium.

I think it was just a coincidence, but to think a modern pro cyclist does not know about Lance and all the details of his scandal because all they do is "train and sleep "is completely hilarious.My stomach still aches so thanks for that.

 

[Bolder]

So, in the last 25 years, that's two interventions from the police and one from the anti-doping authorities. And nothing in the last dozen years.

Do you ever get the feeling that sometimes we oversell these things, just a tad? That we have a rather rose-tinted picture of the past, that we dream of these guys swooping in from the wings and saving us?

The authorities were using 20 year old tactics. Who would have any trace of doping products in their hotel or on the team bus? Even if Bahrain were guilty of something it's unlikely the evidence will be found on some rider's nightstand...

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Since LA got busted eight years ago ago there's been dozens of films, books, articles about him, many mentioning that gesture (including in the most recent offer, Marina Zenovich's much talked out ESPN docu). Maybe Mohorič has somehow managed to avoid all mention of Armstrong. Maybe he didn't even know who Merckx was today on the podium.

I actually remember Edvald Boasson Hagen being asked about becoming the next Eddie Mercx. He did not know who this was. So yes it is possible that Mohoric did not know about the Lance gesture, however unlikely it might seem. After 5 hours a day on a bike, riders probably relax with other things than cycling history

 

[samhocking]

Since LA got busted eight years ago ago there's been dozens of films, books, articles about him, many mentioning that gesture (including in the most recent offer, Marina Zenovich's much talked out ESPN docu). Maybe Mohorič has somehow managed to avoid all mention of Armstrong. Maybe he didn't even know who Merckx was today on the podium.

I think we assume all riders are cycling aficionados and even seek to know about cycling's past. There's young riders coming through that simply don't watch bike racing, they do it, but they're not interested in riders, reading about it, their equipment, who won what race. It's completely different now, riders might not even have a hero. Pogacar was asked if there's any riders that inspired him growing up. His answer "I don't really know or have any, but I take inspiration from myself when on the bike".

 

[BlueRoads]

I actually remember Edvald Boasson Hagen being asked about becoming the next Eddie Mercx. He did not know who this was. So yes it is possible that Mohoric did not know about the Lance gesture, however unlikely it might seem. After 5 hours a day on a bike, riders probably relax with other things than cycling history

I really don't think he did it in hommage to Lance or something, he just did the same gesture, but still it's not a great look because it reminds us strongly that people can claim and do these things and still be big cheaters; to me it's similar to Pogacar's ~"I get tested so often, that should be enough". They might very well not think of LA in that moment, but one wishes they had a better reaction at hand.

 

[zlev11]

i thought it was cool. remember, Lance did it to intimidate a single person who was trying to tell the truth. there is not a single shred of evidence against Mohoric or Bahrain right now, no matter how much they win. it's not even close to the same thing. i dont think Mohoric's performances are out of the ordinary at all, he has always been capable of the performances that he's done in this Tour. it was a great FU to the whiners, i might've done the same thing (especially if i actually was clean!). it's almost like he was saying, where are the Cavendish and Van Aert skeptics? they won a lot of stuff recently too, but nobody is brave enough to go after them in the media, so they whine about the relative nobodies on Bahrain.

 

[ppanther92]

are we aware that Mohoric was 10 when Lance did that gesture, and pro cyclist are not spending their time watching gifs of Lance on internet?
I mean, ok, I get it, but he has no *** clue Lance did the same gesture
they live in their own zone, sleep train eat and repeat, and focus and ride the races. we can´t look at them from the outside thinking pro cyclist see it and get it as we do

I don't know. I was at a similar age and I remember it very well. Granted, I am a cycling fan. But I would guess many pros were as well when they were kids.

Whatever the case - why would you do a "shhhh" and "zipper" move anyway after a raid? Not much other interpretation than "do what you want, you will never catch us"...

 

[will-10]

are we aware that Mohoric was 10 when Lance did that gesture, and pro cyclist are not spending their time watching gifs of Lance on internet?
I mean, ok, I get it, but he has no *** clue Lance did the same gesture
they live in their own zone, sleep train eat and repeat, and focus and ride the races. we can´t look at them from the outside thinking pro cyclist see it and get it as we do

Forget Lance for a second. It's a dumb gesture to make when your team is under investigation.

 

[Ripper]

Forget Lance for a second. It's a dumb gesture to make when your team is under investigation.

Basically this +1000. It just plain looks bad.

 

[Ripper]

So, in the last 25 years, that's two interventions from the police and one from the anti-doping authorities. And nothing in the last dozen years.

Do you ever get the feeling that sometimes we oversell these things, just a tad? That we have a rather rose-tinted picture of the past, that we dream of these guys swooping in from the wings and saving us?

I think some people do. My point was more around the politics of the UCI and ASO, etc., and how it changes, not about 2008 being the good old days (lol ...). Hope that makes more sense.

 

[Cagalitroso]

I actually remember Edvald Boasson Hagen being asked about becoming the next Eddie Mercx. He did not know who this was. So yes it is possible that Mohoric did not know about the Lance gesture, however unlikely it might seem. After 5 hours a day on a bike, riders probably relax with other things than cycling history

Boasson Hagen was born 11 years after EM's last tour win. Mohoric was 11 when LA "won" his last TdF and 19 during the infamous interview on Oprah. There must be 100X the material in Internet and TV on Armstrong compared to EM. This is an apples to pears comparison.

 

[luckyboy]

The gesture still has the same meaning in this situation whether he knows about Armstrong or not.

He tweeted the photo after the stage that "this victory is for all the riders here" just makes it look even more omerta...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1416086739274379267

View: https://twitter.com/matmohoric/status/1416086739274379267

 

[Ripper]

The gesture still has the same meaning in this situation whether he knows about Armstrong or not.

He tweeted the photo after the stage that "this victory is for all the riders here" just makes it look even more omerta...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1416086739274379267

View: https://twitter.com/matmohoric/status/1416086739274379267

That tweet has all the feelz and gives me warm tingles.

 

[FroomeWagon]

In my opinion ... it means to whomever tipped off the French authorities ... keep quiet and zip your lips ... OMERTA

Really dumb to do that publically.