Teams & Riders Bahrain

[Arked]

Padun 1'20 faster than the peloton on Joux Plane in 2016. Still 2 minutes slower than Pantani

I'm waiting for Strava files from guys who have actual power data. From what I saw until now, Kuss was doing around 5.6W/kg until he got dropped. Kondrad power estimation is similar (~5.6w/kg). So if it actually was around 5.6w/kg then move along, nothing to see here.

 

[BlueRoads]

I'm waiting for Strava files from guys who have actual power data. From what I saw until now, Kuss was doing around 5.6W/kg until he got dropped. Kondrad power estimation is similar (~5.6w/kg). So if it actually was around 5.6w/kg then move along, nothing to see here.

You're serious?

 

[Arked]

About what? 5.6w/kg being nothing special?

 

[Forever The Best]

So, how long until we get the next big police raid? It looks like the sport has taken more than a few steps backwards in the last 2 years.

There is obviously no doping since no one gets caught. Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[ppanther92]

Yesterday was 6.3 W/kg for 45 minutes though.

 

[Forever The Best]

Doesn't explain Prato di Tivo

Last years Giro was also very fast.

 

[Arked]

Yesterday was 6.3 W/kg for 45 minutes though.

No it wasn't. By doing comparisons with actual power data it was a bit over 6.0W/kg. Which is still within normal margin for a climber on the last climb of the stage.

 

[Bronstein]

I'm waiting for Strava files from guys who have actual power data. From what I saw until now, Kuss was doing around 5.6W/kg until he got dropped. Kondrad power estimation is similar (~5.6w/kg). So if it actually was around 5.6w/kg then move along, nothing to see here.

Not quite ...

 

[saganftw]

you dont need power numbers to know somethings quite off, everytime a sentence includes "only miguel indurain was faster" its a giant red flag...especially for a guy who allegedly lost 4,5 kg and havent shown any kind of elite climbing ability ever in his life

 

[Arked]

you dont need power numbers to know somethings quite off, everytime a sentence includes "only miguel indurain was faster" its a giant red flag...especially for a guy who allegedly lost 4,5 kg and havent shown any kind of elite climbing ability ever in his life

In my opinion nothing is clearly off. He is 24 years old. This is pretty normal to have breakthrough performance at that age. Not everyone are Remco or MVdP-like wonderkids. Also he didn't do any "alien" performance. He was just riding along for 5 stages, staying fresh and then threw everything he got for the last two stages. And he hit jackpot. He won't be able to do that on TdF, because there will be 20-40 other guys in their top form, trying to do the same thing. Dauphine is World Tour, but it is still training race for most top guys.

Not quite ...

Yep, today it was around 5.8-5.9 W/kg. Still normal.

 

[ppanther92]

No it wasn't. By doing comparisons with actual power data it was a bit over 6.0W/kg. Which is still within normal margin for a climber on the last climb of the stage.

Then lets put the somewhat subjective W/kg measure aside (no one knows his exact weight, we don't have a Padun Strava).

LA PLAGNE | #Dauphine

until roundabout
15.21 km, 7.74 %, 1178 m

Tour de France 1995 | 40:49 | Miguel Indurain
Dauphine 2021 | 41:24 | Mark Padun

Indurain dropped Pantani and Gotti by 2:30 and Rominger/Chiapucci/Virenque by 4:00 that day. VAM of 1695. Are we seriously arguing that this is not an absolutely eormous performance?

 

[BlueRoads]

In my opinion nothing is clearly off. He is 24 years old. This is pretty normal to have breakthrough performance at that age. Not everyone are Remco or MVdP-like wonderkids. Also he didn't do any "alien" performance. He was just riding along for 5 stages, staying fresh and then threw everything he got for the last two stages. And he hit jackpot. He won't be able to do that on TdF, because there will be 20-40 other guys in their top form, trying to do the same thing. Dauphine is World Tour, but it is still training race for most top guys.

That is, with all due respect, nonsense. I can't believe anyone could defend this unless you are personally related to him.
This comes out of the blue, the stages he was pretty good on so far in his life were hilly/ medium mountain, nothing with serious climbing. He didn't even show anything like that this year, on no terrain. There are other guys in the Dauphiné who really want to win a stage, they are not just riding along. These were the queen stages. The others shared work and wheelsucked, he rode alone for most of the time yesterday as well as today. He wasn't spent at all after yesterday's effort, but just repeated it today.
This is so far from a steady progression.

 

[saganftw]

In my opinion nothing is clearly off. He is 24 years old. This is pretty normal to have breakthrough performance at that age. Not everyone are Remco or MVdP-like wonderkids. Also he didn't do any "alien" performance. He was just riding along for 5 stages, staying fresh and then threw everything he got for the last two stages. And he hit jackpot. He won't be able to do that on TdF, because there will be 20-40 other guys in their top form, trying to do the same thing. Dauphine is World Tour, but it is still training race for most top guys.

you seem to be of an opinion that someones becomes an elite climber like a caterpillar turns into a butterfly, padun just woke up saturday "well ***, im an all time climbing talent now, what you gonna do..."

 

[ppanther92]

The one thing I agree on is that he won't show the same at the Tour. But not because those performances were not extraordinary but because he is now in the limelight with all its implications.

 

[Bronstein]

In my opinion nothing is clearly off. He is 24 years old. This is pretty normal to have breakthrough performance at that age. Not everyone are Remco or MVdP-like wonderkids. Also he didn't do any "alien" performance. He was just riding along for 5 stages, staying fresh and then threw everything he got for the last two stages. And he hit jackpot. He won't be able to do that on TdF, because there will be 20-40 other guys in their top form, trying to do the same thing. Dauphine is World Tour, but it is still training race for most top guys.



Yep, today it was around 5.8-5.9 W/kg. Still normal.

Source?

 

[F_Cance]

how bad were the last two days? This bad:

On condition of anonymity, the speeches are much less well thought out. "It's an absolute disgrace," says a team boss. How am I going to approach sponsors and tell them that there is no more doping when we see this? It's just rude. The Bahrain team is becoming more and more sulphurous. Its Giro was already depressing with the Italian Damiano Caruso (2nd in the final classification) or the Slovenian Jan Tratnik who surprised everyone in the passes.

" Another member of a French team said the same thing. We all feel like idiots," he grumbles. If the guy does a hold-up in La Plagne, why not. But he doesn't have the decency to hide out a bit the next day. There's a feeling of impunity that reminds us of the dirty 2000s. But, obviously, as long as you don't have proof, you keep quiet... ".

L’Ukrainien Mark Padun, double vainqueur d’étape en montagne, crée un malaise sur le Dauphiné

Sans grandes références en haute-montagne, l’Ukrainien de l’équipe Bahrain a remporté à la surprise générale les deux dernières étape du Cri

www.leparisien.fr

 

[Netserk]

That is, with all due respect, nonsense. I can't believe anyone could defend this unless you are personally related to him.
This comes out of the blue, the stages he was pretty good on so far in his life were hilly/ medium mountain, nothing with serious climbing. He didn't even show anything like that this year, on no terrain. There are other guys in the Dauphiné who really want to win a stage, they are not just riding along. These were the queen stages. The others shared work and wheelsucked, he rode alone for most of the time yesterday as well as today. He wasn't spent at all after yesterday's effort, but just repeated it today.
This is so far from a steady progression.

Why shouldn't he repeat it today? He showed yesterday that he was the strongest rider uphill in the race, today he was in a big breakaway and had to beat Konrad and Vingegaard. He was fast, sure -- but I didn't expect his legs to disappear overnight.

 

[Arked]

Source?

Estimation plus comparison with Jack Haig time and power data.

 

[Arked]

you seem to be of an opinion that someones becomes an elite climber like a caterpillar turns into a butterfly, padun just woke up saturday "well ***, im an all time climbing talent now, what you gonna do..."

Look. 5.8-6 W/kg is not an elite climber power. It's typical for World Tour, even for many non specialists, but it is less than top guys do. I think there is some lucky coincidence here going on, that this numbers produced two consecutive stages wins. Have in mind that he was significantly less fatigued than GC guys and their domestiques during 2 last stages.

 

[Bronstein]

Estimation plus comparison with Jack Haig time and power data.

In other words, you made it up.

 

[ExperienPT]

I think that this would be known from now on as:

Ohhhh Did a Padun!?

When some random cyclist beats everyone...

 

[ppanther92]

how bad were the last two days? This bad:

L’Ukrainien Mark Padun, double vainqueur d’étape en montagne, crée un malaise sur le Dauphiné

Sans grandes références en haute-montagne, l’Ukrainien de l’équipe Bahrain a remporté à la surprise générale les deux dernières étape du Cri

www.leparisien.fr

Wow. Probably also a bit hypocritical. But since when do we actually have teams calling out riders directly? Thats new...

 

[Arked]

In other words, you made it up.

In other words I made educated guess which is very close to the truth. The precision of my estimations is similar or better to the data you happily provided earlier in this thread (twitter estimations). We can play ad personams all day long, but that will be it from me on that topic.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

lol, the guy grinds world class class climbers off his wheel Sayar style, 2 days in a row. with little history of doing that

meanwhile his whole team has the season of their lives.

we are pretending he rides paniagua?

 

[HelloDolly]

Posters banding about 5.8-6 W/kg as typical means nothing and misses the point
Its not the power to weight alone ...its for how long and in what conditions
Hell I could probably doo 6 W/Kg for a few minutes


Padun " climbed today Col de Joux Plane at ~6,0 w/kg in 34 min 53 sec, the fastest time recorded since 2000. He was quicker than the group of favourites despite riding alone from the breakaway. "

That is not an improvement from nowhere that is an annihilation of everyone else

And it is well dodgy

I dont care how nice he is or how much his Mom or Jesus wants him to win
You dont improve like this from no where
You lose 4.5 Kg in 2 weeks (itself suspect) and suddenly you are the new Indurain )