Teams & Riders Bahrain

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

I actually dislike the habit of posting in the Clinic straight away after someone wins and in isolation I think him winning PR in this fashion isn't really out of order - like others said, he has a habit of being good in these sort of conditions...

... but even if he finished 5th today I would've pushed this thread because of how insane consistent he has been this season. We talk about up and downs and peaking at the right time etc. for all these riders and meanwhile Colbrelli (and Mohoric as well) has seemingly been up there since spring. Romandie, Dauphine, NCC, Tour, Benelux, ECC, Worlds, now Paris Roubaix... and especially since September he has been insane, he has been either first or second in 7 of his last 9 races, Worlds RR (10th) and Giro della Toscana (DNF) the only exceptions. Madness.

 

[hrotha]

Amazing performance by Sonny Santambrogio

 

[SafeBet]

It's probably meaningless but a friend of mine pointed out that both Marcell Jacobs and Sonny Colbrelli are from Desenzano del Garda.

 

[BlueRoads]

Riders on Bahrain who are having their best ever season in 2021, PCS points wise:

Bauhaus
Bilbao
Buitrago (not surprising at his age)
Caruso
Colbrelli (by far)
Jack Haig (despite crashing out of TdF)
Gino Mäder (young, but by far)
Mohoric (by far)
Padun
Stephen Williams
Fred Wright

Do they all share the same mental coach?
To be fair in regards to the young riders it's not that crazy, they are bound to develop and the Corona-time put a break on many rider's points. Still, I find that quite a bunch of guys.

 

[Rackham]

Using a "mental coach" as a reason for top performances is clever in a sort of manipulation of current-year societal conversations, i.e. with all the focus on "mental health" in pro sports in recent months aka "argh I lost because I have mental health problems" (I paraphrase), it seems like scoring in an open goal to come along & say "hey, I'm winning because I have good mental health!".

Mental coaches are the new marginal gains.

 

[F_Cance]

interesting thing is that Aldag joined the team this season. Now he is off to Bora next year. Denk said "cycling has changed and we have to adapt to those changes to keep up". Doesn't really make sense to me to replace Poitschke with a even more traditional person citing changes in cycling. Guess we will see next season.

 

[Mayomaniac]

It's probably meaningless but a friend of mine pointed out that both Marcell Jacobs and Sonny Colbrelli are from Desenzano del Garda.

Do they share/did they share the same nutritionist?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Using a "mental coach" as a reason for top performances is clever in a sort of manipulation of current-year societal conversations, i.e. with all the focus on "mental health" in pro sports in recent months aka "argh I lost because I have mental health problems" (I paraphrase), it seems like scoring in an open goal to come along & say "hey, I'm winning because I have good mental health!".

Mental coaches are the new marginal gains.

Yeah, the new gluten-free or fasted training to loose a few extra kg while mantaining the same power.

 

[noob]

The mental health problems idea is really horrible; if anything mental health is about coping with failure. The whole idea that winning = mental health is incredibly detrimental to mental health in the peleton if anything

 

[SafeBet]

Do they share/did they share the same nutritionist?

You tell me.
My mother lives in Sirmione so this nutrionist might come handy for my diet as well.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Using a "mental coach" as a reason for top performances is clever in a sort of manipulation of current-year societal conversations, i.e. with all the focus on "mental health" in pro sports in recent months aka "argh I lost because I have mental health problems"

You say it's au courant I'd say it's old hat. Gianni Bugno claimed that listening to Mozart and seeing a sports psychologist turned him from "a priest in a soutane" on descents to a total demon in the 1980s. Mind coaching, it's nothing new. And it's not really connected to mental health, thinking it is, well, that's feckin' mental. Steve Peters' monkey spanking tips at Sky weren't about mental health, that was good old fashioned sports psychology, a step or three up from simple visualisation techniques. You can disagree with whether sports psychology / mind coaches / mental coaching works and whether it's not just the placenta effect writ large, an athlete responding to more one-on-one attention, but you can not say it's simply tapping into a vogue for something it's got absolutely effin nothin' to do with.

 

[Rackham]

You say it's au courant I'd say it's old hat. Gianni Bugno claimed that listening to Mozart and seeing a sports psychologist turned him from "a priest in a soutane" on descents to a total demon in the 1980s. Mind coaching, it's nothing new. And it's not really connected to mental health, thinking it is, well, that's feckin' mental. Steve Peters' monkey spanking tips at Sky weren't about mental health, that was good old fashioned sports psychology, a step or three up from simple visualisation techniques. You can disagree with whether sports psychology / mind coaches / mental coaching works and whether it's not just the placenta effect writ large, an athlete responding to more one-on-one attention, but you can not say it's simply tapping into a vogue for something it's got absolutely effin nothin' to do with.

I'm talking about the public relations aspect & the topical nature of mental health, not the minutiae of mental coaching versus mental health (which you'll find is probably conflated by a large majority in any case).

And let's be real here, I'm also talking about Bahrain doping & using every excuse they can muster in front of the press to justify the transformation this season. Mental coaching as such is an interesting angle.

 

[fmk_RoI]

And let's be real here, I'm also talking about Bahrain doping & using every excuse they can muster in front of the press to justify the transformation this season.

"I'm allowed to be wrong cause I'm talking about doping."

 

[Rackham]

"I'm allowed to be wrong cause I'm talking about doping."

And you're right... because reasons? Unless you work for Bahrain you have no idea. Ergo citing genuine past examples of mental coaching in sport in no way invalidates the theory Bahrain can use "mental coaching" in current year conversations as a convenient little shield based on the entire topical aspect of mental health.

We have a very long cycling history littered with teams & riders employing every excuse they can imagine & sell to the public in their era. And FYI I'm hardly completely committal in this, aka it's just a theory.

But I certainly won't dismiss it just because you seem to have a problem with it. If the clinic area became "post 100% fact or STFU", we'd have no conversation at all. And as I said, you don't own the facts here either so we're just a couple of random internet users posting thoughts & opinions.

 

[nayr497]

Awesome. What could have gone done as a very memorable P-R with the crazy conditions now just has a big asterisk next to it. No way is Colbrelli a belieavable winner. Ugh.

 

[fbjim]

I'm talking about the public relations aspect & the topical nature of mental health, not the minutiae of mental coaching versus mental health (which you'll find is probably conflated by a large majority in any case).

Remembering Biles causing a huge round of mental health discourse when she withdrew from the Olympics and it turned out that what she had was the gymnast equivilent of the yips- which has been well-known as a major psychological athletic problem for like, forever (just ask a golfer). Of course it still got treated as some kind of brand new thing.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Awesome. What could have gone done as a very memorable P-R with the crazy conditions now just has a big asterisk next to it. No way is Colbrelli a belieavable winner. Ugh.

Who as a winner would have been "believable" in your eyes? If VDP had towed everyone around and still retained enough to either ride off in the last kilometers or dust Colbrelli in the sprint?

 

[F_Cance]

Cyclisme – Du myorelaxant dans les bidons

On a analysé les cheveux de sept cyclistes et, chez trois d’entre eux, on a trouvé les traces d’un relaxant musculaire. Bizarre.

amp-tdg-ch.translate.goog

Bahrain using Tizanidine. Not banned but definitely questionable

 

[noob]

Cyclisme – Du myorelaxant dans les bidons

On a analysé les cheveux de sept cyclistes et, chez trois d’entre eux, on a trouvé les traces d’un relaxant musculaire. Bizarre.

amp-tdg-ch.translate.goog

Bahrain using Tizanidine. Not banned but definitely questionable

Wow! It's kind of hard not to admire the creativity in all the things they find.

But it's interesting as painkillers used in other sports to be able to continue à game is considered doping in cycling.

 

[samhocking]

Cyclisme – Du myorelaxant dans les bidons

On a analysé les cheveux de sept cyclistes et, chez trois d’entre eux, on a trouvé les traces d’un relaxant musculaire. Bizarre.

amp-tdg-ch.translate.goog

Bahrain using Tizanidine. Not banned but definitely questionable

Yep, could get tricky for their Dr in this investigation because in France it requires a temporary use authorization and I assume they didn't obtain one and why the hotel was raided.

 

[Bolder]

Yep, could get tricky for their Dr in this investigation because in France it requires a temporary use authorization and I assume they didn't obtain one and why the hotel was raided.

The article wasn't clear -- is it only France in which you would need a TUE/TUA, or is it on a UCI or anti-doping agency list?

Zanaflex is the brand name, at least in the US. According to US ADA wallet card it appears to be permitted w/out a TUE, but it could also be subject to country or sport restrictions.

Anyway, I suspect that this -- if it's what was found -- isn't the only special sauce that has made Bahrain ... more victorious this year. But it could have a huge effect on recovery...

 

[F_Cance]

Bahrain Victorious dismiss reports muscle relaxant Tizanidine was found in rider hair samples

Erzen says the team have not been notified of research document findings

www.cyclingnews.com

Erzen shrugged off the report that traces of Tizanidine were found in the hair of three of his riders. “What’s that? We are not using this. Never heard about that.” he told Cyclingnews in an initial message.

yeah sure...
then he noticed how dumb his first reaction was and basically admitted that they are using it

He later said: “Our Team and/or our Riders have not been officially or unofficially notified about any such findings. Therefore, the Team has no comment on it.”

"Team Bahrain Victorious and any of its Riders have not been officially or unofficially notified about any findings related to tizanidine or other substances," read the statement. "The Team would like to stress that the authors of the scientific article to which all allegations refer have unambiguously pointed out that tizanidine is not a prohibited substance in sport.

 

[Rackham]

A hair-raising report, no doubt.

But seriously, can anyone even act surprised? Bahrain had a real sudden collective surge this year & that always means one thing only. This will be the tip of a huge iceberg & the only question is whether it's a string which if pulled can unravel a whole lot more in the pro peloton.

 

[King Boonen]

Cyclisme – Du myorelaxant dans les bidons

On a analysé les cheveux de sept cyclistes et, chez trois d’entre eux, on a trouvé les traces d’un relaxant musculaire. Bizarre.

amp-tdg-ch.translate.goog

Bahrain using Tizanidine. Not banned but definitely questionable

Mod hat on:

Can you please provide a brief synopsis of the article, in English, highlighting the important points.

Cheers,

KB.

 

[Monte Serra]

Mod hat on:

Can you please provide a brief synopsis of the article, in English, highlighting the important points.

Cheers,

KB.

Cyclingnews has just published an article on the report:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/amp/new...t-tizanidine-was-found-in-rider-hair-samples/