Ballan and the destructive power of suspicion

[gree0232]

I must have missed the post where you named the people in the Hospital room - I will go back and look.

The Police investigation in to Ballan is ongoing.

UCI teams Code of Conduct.

And yet he is riding despite the - "not to enter any licence-holder for events who is subject to judicial proceedings or investigation for facts relating to sporting activity,"

And all the people Floyd accussed are still riding as well despite offocially opening investigations on all of them.

Again, we need more than accussation and innuendo.

I will happily conceed that any of these guys is a doper when the threshold is met to sanction or remove them from the sport.

Ballan does not appear to have doped. We keep seeing things dumped into the press that have little or no merit. Enough.

It is hard enough to compete at that level without being randomly sidelined everytime some fool shoots his mouth off.

 

[bobs nob]

Dear troll,

I appreciate your service to our country. (yes, seriously)

As to the topic at hand, that does not grant you some sort of immunity from being a troll.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And yet he is riding despite the - "not to enter any licence-holder for events who is subject to judicial proceedings or investigation for facts relating to sporting activity,"

And all the people Floyd accussed are still riding as well despite offocially opening investigations on all of them.

Again, we need more than accussation and innuendo.

I will happily conceed that any of these guys is a doper when the threshold is met to sanction or remove them from the sport.

Ballan does not appear to have doped. We keep seeing things dumped into the press that have little or no merit. Enough.

It is hard enough to compete at that level without being randomly sidelined everytime some fool shoots his mouth off.

I would not call the Italian doping Police (NAS) fools.

The only reason the story came out was because the police had to go before a Judge to extend the investigation and those part of the investigation also had to be notified.

 

[gree0232]

I would not call the Italian doping Police (NAS) fools.

The only reason the story came out was because the police had to go before a Judge to extend the investigation and those part of the investigation also had to be notified.

And the safely anonymous accusser is?

Again, there is no proof to back this up. Why sideline someone based off accussation alone?

 

[Race Radio]

And yet he is riding despite the - "not to enter any licence-holder for events who is subject to judicial proceedings or investigation for facts relating to sporting activity,"

And all the people Floyd accussed are still riding as well despite offocially opening investigations on all of them.

And you wonder why you are the only person who puts such an high amount of trust in the UCI, dispute their repeated failure to enforce their own rules.

 

[gree0232]

Dear troll,

I appreciate your service to our country. (yes, seriously)

As to the topic at hand, that does not grant you some sort of immunity from being a troll.

If you think I am a troll, then please report it and let the mods handle it.

If you continue to think that everyone in a forum who disgrees with your coterie is a troll based solely on standing up to you ....

well, perhaps you fail to understand how a discussion forum works?

 

[gree0232]

And you wonder why you are the only person who puts such an high amount of trust in the UCI, dispute their repeated failure to enforce their own rules.

So, you are saying we should continue to sideline Ballan based on what exactly?

 

[Mellow Velo]

You can randomly be sidelined by a crash or illness.
Ballan lost almost a season to the latter.
I'll bet he's less up tight about his situation, than you obviously are.

 

[Race Radio]

Dear troll,

I appreciate your service to our country. (yes, seriously)

As to the topic at hand, that does not grant you some sort of immunity from being a troll.

Considering his propensity for inventing things you may want to reserve your appreciation. There are people who actually served who deserve it much more.

 

[Anonymous]

Dear troll,

I appreciate your service to our country. (yes, seriously)

As to the topic at hand, that does not grant you some sort of immunity from being a troll.

All we know for sure about him is that he is a troll. The other stuff is quite probably SERIOUS exaggeration at best. IF he served in the military, then I appreciate his service also. However, this is the interwebs, and you can be anything or anyone you want. Like I said, we had an FBI agent in here a year ago spouting the same things. This year we get a ranger Iraqi corruption killer expert. Heck, I remember a fake psychologist once coming in here too. The interwebs is filled with people claiming things that have no basis in reality in order to justify their opinions on any given issue. I for one am not buying it at this point. He doesn't act like any officer I have ever known. Most of them are the very picture of self-control. This one...not so much. I have also never known one to be so blatantly dishonest.

 

[gree0232]

You can randomly be sidelined by a crash or illness.
Ballan lost almost a season to the latter.
I'll bet he's less up tight about his situation, than you obviously are.

A crash is expected. But when you are healthy and capable of riding and suddenly you can't because some anonymous ****er takes a corwardly swipe at you?

Heh, you want to beat Contador at the Tour? Just make a doping accussation right before the Tour and he is sidelined right?

Would that be right? Why is right for that to happen to Ballan just before the classics season.

How would you like to be sidelined from your job right as you were about to make a big sale (and thus losing your bonus) because of an anonymous and basically baseless accussation?

Would it be fair if it happened to you?

 

[Race Radio]

A crash is expected. But when you are healthy and capable of riding and suddenly you can't because some anonymous ****er takes a corwardly swipe at you?

Heh, you want to beat Contador at the Tour? Just make a doping accussation right before the Tour and he is sidelined right?

Would that be right? Why is right for that to happen to Ballan just before the classics season.

How would you like to be sidelined from your job right as you were about to make a big sale (and thus losing your bonus) because of an anonymous and basically baseless accussation?

Would it be fair if it happened to you?

So now you are saying that the Italian Police's investigation was all just a way to keep Ballan out of the classics?

You have a fertile imagination, are you sure you did not bring any poppies back from Afghanistan?

 

[Anonymous]

So now you are saying that the Italian Police's investigation was all just a way to keep Ballan out of the classics?

You have a fertile imagination, are you sure you did not bring any poppies back from Afghanistan?

He was in Iraq...fighting corruption...and cleaning toilets.

 

[gree0232]

So now you are saying that the Italian Police's investigation was all just a way to keep Ballan out of the classics?

You have a fertile imagination, are you sure you did not bring any poppies back from Afghanistan?

That is clearly what happened.

Whether it was intentional or not is irrelevant.

Why is it OK to make false accussations? As long as the accussation involves doping, however false, it is OK?

And seriously, if you think making immature cracks about others is going to intimidate anyone, then the only dope I see is the crack you are smoking.

All you have is spin and insults, and a history of disappointment while failing to reaize that these will never get you a doping conviction against any of your targets.

 

[gree0232]

He was in Iraq...fighting corruption...and cleaning toilets.

Agh, well, now we can all see why Ballan is doped

More heroic, honorable behavior form a guy that does what exactly?

 

[Race Radio]

That is clearly what happened.

If it is so clear then you must have some evidence you can share with us....or did you make this up as well?

 

[bobs nob]

Considering his propensity for inventing things you may want to reserve your appreciation. There are people who actually served who deserve it much more.

Yes, I am well aware of the fact that he could be hiding behind it. And well aware of the fact that he may be completely unaware of how despicable such a false claim is. It's even more despicable than claiming to have won 7 tdf's without cheating. Perhaps he sees a kindred spirit?

 

[MarkGreen0]

Hey guys

Keep it civil or I will close the discusssion down.

It is ok to challenge people's opinions it is not ok to insult people.

Terry
(Moderator)

Agreed.

I'm surprised you allow them to get so aggressive and gang on someone simply because he holds a different view. I don't think TFF or Race Radio have posted anything on topic yet in the entire thread. Just lots of personal attacks. Personally I think you should stamp out the trolling. It's not nice to read.

 

[ElChingon]

If Ballan was temporarily banned for :

As the American outfit announced on Friday morning, it has concluded its internal investigation into the alleged doping past of his rider, and "could not find indications that Ballan was involved in any doping in connection with his former team, Lampre."

Then the moment one other person confirms Floyd's statements I want all of the riders listed by Floyd also placed on a temporary suspension till they are verified to be cleared of such accusations just like Ballan was. If they do apply this temp. ban on them it will prove there are no "special" treatment of riders/teams by the UCI, if there are no temp. bans then we know the UCI is totally corrupt (well we know it is, just an Nth verification).

 

[Digger]

Agreed.

I'm surprised you allow them to get so aggressive and gang on someone simply because he holds a different view. I don't think TFF or Race Radio have posted anything on topic yet in the entire thread. Just lots of personal attacks. Personally I think you should stamp out the trolling. It's not nice to read.

52 accounts now?

 

[MarkGreen0]

...

I know you're a reasonable person. Don't you dislike the bullying and hounding of people? I bet you don't buy for a second that they're too stupid to work out that someone can hold a dramatically different opinion to them. I don't either - they can't be that stupid.

TFF has even taken to calling on the mods to shut down threads he doesn't like, and "bumping" threads he does like. I think he needs a little break to refresh his mind. It's quite ugly to watch people so paronoid and upset about other people posting things they don't like.

 

[MarkGreen0]

If Ballan was temporarily banned for :

Then the moment one other person confirms Floyd's statements I want all of the riders listed by Floyd also placed on a temporary suspension till they are verified to be cleared of such accusations just like Ballan was. If they do apply this temp. ban on them it will prove there are no "special" treatment of riders/teams by the UCI, if there are no temp. bans then we know the UCI is totally corrupt (well we know it is, just an Nth verification).

It's up to the team to do that, not the UCI. BMC did not have to temporarliy ban Ballan if they didn't want to.

 

[Anonymous]

52 accounts now?

...and only one mentally ill troll behind them all. I guess they are going to allow him to keep posting now because they can't stop him because he just keep subverting the bans. Ignore is the only option now. I will bait gree because he is escalating pretty well now, and I can see him physically threatening someone pretty soon. CybilBoy here, he is just chemically imbalanced in a way that won't rub off. No reason to engage him about anything anymore.

 

[Digger]

...and only one mentally ill troll behind them all. I guess they are going to allow him to keep posting now because they can't stop him because he just keep subverting the bans. Ignore is the only option now. I will bait gree because he is escalating pretty well now, and I can see him physically threatening someone pretty soon. CybilBoy here, he is just chemically imbalanced in a way that won't rub off. No reason to engage him about anything anymore.

LOL....Will he stop in and hunt me down on his way back to Iraq? It's on his way.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

All we know for sure about him is that he is a troll. The other stuff is quite probably SERIOUS exaggeration at best. IF he served in the military, then I appreciate his service also. However, this is the interwebs, and you can be anything or anyone you want. Like I said, we had an FBI agent in here a year ago spouting the same things. This year we get a ranger Iraqi corruption killer expert. Heck, I remember a fake psychologist once coming in here too. The interwebs is filled with people claiming things that have no basis in reality in order to justify their opinions on any given issue. I for one am not buying it at this point. He doesn't act like any officer I have ever known. Most of them are the very picture of self-control. This one...not so much. I have also never known one to be so blatantly dishonest.

I don't know why all of you are focusing on all this troll stuff instead of ignoring it and addressing his main point, which I, for one, think is valid.

As I understand it, all the GI Joe nonsense aside, he's saying it's fundamentally unfair and not good for the sport to suspend people on accusation alone, and that a system that can suspend anyone merely for being under investigation, and mere unsubstantiated accusation is all that is required to start an investigation, is problematic. He uses Ballan to make the point that this is not just a hypothetical concern.

Is that a fair characterization of the concern raised in the OP? If not, what is? If so, can everyone please discuss only the merits and weakness of this argument, never mind who is making it and why?

Thanks.