Basso suggests Sky doping? Likens them to Armstrong/USPS

[Apollonius]

Basso dopes so he's got no business throwing veiled accusations around. What a ****.

 

[Parrot23]

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

btw Would be interesting to know if the original interview was in Italian and, if so, how the tone of that is compared to the translation.

 

[No_Balls]

it doesn't mean he's loved by the riders. being that he was coached by one of Conconi's men, he's well aware of the truth about Indurain, who was one of the biggest frauds of all.

Yes, he was. Now give me your hard facts. AND remember, this thread is about the great white hope Sky and not Indurain.

 

[131313]

Yes, he was. Now give me your hard facts. AND remember, this thread is about the great white hope Sky and not Indurain.

He's not loved by any current riders that I personally know, and he's not loved by me. I'm not sure what "hard facts" I'm supposed to trot out to support that position. Most active riders realize he's one of the godfathers of advanced doping, which he is. Sure, current riders who don't want to make waves are publicly deferential to him, because that's how the game is unfortunately played.

If someone mentions Indurain in this thread, no one else can comment on it? Um...ok...

 

[Maxiton]

I don't know about now, but Jai Alai used to be so crooked that the players & owners had to screw their pants on in the morning... Games bought and sold, Mafia hits, you name it. But damn fun to watch and play.

Kind of like cycling.

Noir sport. It actually sounds kind of interesting. Come to think of it, I wonder how many hits have occurred in cycling that we don't know about? How many threats to family and how much sabotage?

That's what you get when your sport is reliant almost totally on betting though. I really don't understand the format of US Jai-Alai either. Too stop-start, hard to tell who's on what team and so on. In Europe, two teams play first-to-35, or first-to-15 in 2 sets. Much easier.

Libertine, you are amazing. Is there any sport you don't know, or aren't interested in?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Don't worry about my logic. Take it up with Ivan. He won the Giro doped and clean. He's knows what goes on in the peloton.

Just to confirm. You are saying that Basso won the 2010 Giro clean...

Do you think it was just him that was clean or his whole team?
You must also be saying that it is possible to win a GT clean?

 

[131313]

I love the polemics of one doping complaining about another doper doping too much. Just for some historical perspective: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/may06/may29news

Ricco's roomate complaining about Basso. It rings about as hollow as Basso complaining about Sky, at least to my ears.

 

[JPM London]

Just to confirm. You are saying that Basso won the 2012 Giro clean...

Do you think it was just him that was clean or his whole team?
You must also be saying that it is possible to win a GT clean?

When did Hesjedal get demoted?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

When did Hesjedal get demoted?

Haha. You got me there Ok, 2010.

 

[thehog]

Haha. You got me there Ok, 2010.

Oh dear......

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Oh dear......

What. Oh, and my questions still stand. Ta.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Believing the 2012 Tour de France could be won clean, and believing the 2012 Tour de France WAS won clean, are two totally different standpoints, mind.

 

[thehog]

What. Oh, and my questions still stand. Ta.

Apologies I couldn't actually see you had a question amoungst your factually incorrect ramblings... what was the question again?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Believing the 2012 Tour de France could be won clean, and believing the 2012 Tour de France WAS won clean, are two totally different standpoints, mind.

I agree but if you believe that the 2010 Giro was won clean then you might believe that other GTs might be won clean, no?

Of course clean itself is open to interpretation. You could have a clean winner and a not so clean team. Then again perhaps it is still impossible.

 

[hrotha]

I agree but if you believe that the 2010 Giro was won clean then you might believe that other GTs might be won clean, no?

Of course clean itself is open to interpretation. You could have a clean winner and a not so clean team. Then again perhaps it is still impossible.

Looking at the watt numbers, I believe a natural supertalent could have won this Tour clean. I also believe Sky was doped to the gills.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Apologies I couldn't actually see you had a question amoungst your factually incorrect ramblings... what was the question again?

I thought a poster of your standing would have been able to work out a typo but perhaps I gave you too much credit.

Don't worry about my logic. Take it up with Ivan. He won the Giro doped and clean. He's knows what goes on in the peloton.

Just to confirm. You are saying that Basso won the 2010 Giro clean...

Do you think it was just him that was clean or his whole team?
You must also be saying that it is possible to win a GT clean?

 

[thehog]

I thought a poster of your standing would have been able to work out a typo but perhaps I gave you too much credit.


Just to confirm. You are saying that Basso won the 2010 Giro clean...

Do you think it was just him that was clean or his whole team?
You must also be saying that it is possible to win a GT clean?

Of course its possible to win a GT clean. Question is what the rest of the field is doing.

No chance winning a GT clean against Sky.

Even if Basso was doped as was everyone else they still couldn't attack Sky! Even on the lower slops against Porte.

In fact they were so strong every other team was powerless to do anything. Never seen anything like it. Ever.

At least Ullrich & Basso could ride to a MTF with Lance.

This time around Froome and Wiggings were soft peddling up mountains alone! then putting 4 minutes into everyone else in the TTs.

If you want to defend that as normal go right ahead.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Of course its possible to win a GT clean. Question is what the rest of the field is doing.

No chance winning a GT clean against Sky.

Even if Basso was doped as was everyone else they still couldn't attack Sky! Even on the lower slops against Porte.

In fact they were so strong every other team was powerless to do anything. Never seen anything like it. Ever.

At least Ullrich & Basso could ride to a MTF with Lance.

This time around Froome and Wiggings were soft peddling up mountains alone! then putting 4 minutes into everyone else in the TTs.

If you want to defend that as normal go right ahead.

That's all very interesting and I like the way you go off on a tangent but can you answer the question?

Do you think it was just him that was clean or his whole team?

 

[blackcat]

Brailsford in 2010 (quoted in Richard Moore's Sky book):

"And you have to believe that it's possible to win the Tour clean...I believe the guys at that level are going right up to the line, like everyone else...[/I]

I don't believe there is a systematic doping programme in a team which is allowing those guys to perform that well. But I certainly think they go right up to the line"

That can be read in several ways, including, as the author (who is on the whole pro Sky) implies, an invitation to explore the grey area leading up the the 'line' - which could be a fertile source of marginal gains.

this goes by the euphemism "it is not doping if it does not show up" <thumb nose at authorities, who, in some circumstances, give you the wide berth or cover it up>

 

[blackcat]

As for how exactly Sky would do it: obviously we have no idea. We can only guess. Usually it's not some revolutionary method or product, just a better way of combining the same drugs and methods everyone else is using.

its like womens athletics today v the GDR, they still have not grabbed those WRs set, and Sky are still not threatening the peak numbers of the 90s are they.

So there is no magic wonder drug.

 

[thehog]

That's all very interesting and I like the way you go off on a tangent but can you answer the question?

Do you think it was just him that was clean or his whole team?

Brad Wiggins will answer my question after going faster than Lance's effort in the final TT of 2005 (faster than Martin in 2011! which was shorter):

"When we were riding on the front at 450 watts or whatever, someone would attack and Mick Rogers would say ‘just leave him, he can’t sustain it,’” Wiggins said.

What's left to say?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Brad Wiggins will anwser my question after going faster than Lance's effort in the final TT of 2005 (faster than Martin in 2011! which was shorter):

"When we were riding on the front at 450 watts or whatever, someone would attack and Mick Rogers would say ‘just leave him, he can’t sustain it,’” Wiggins said.

What's left to say?

Well, you still haven't answered DBL Pedro's question.
That's left to say.
Interesting Paradox you are faced with.

 

[thehog]

its like womens athletics today v the GDR, they still have not grabbed those WRs set, and Sky are still not threatening the peak numbers of the 90s are they.

So there is no magic wonder drug.

Id shudder to think of the numbers if Froome was unleashed and if the rest of the field hadn't been destroyed on the lower slopes.

If riders can't attack you know it's fast.... too fast.

 

[thehog]

Well, you still haven't answered DBL Pedro's question.
That's left to say.
Interesting Paradox you are faced with.

Was basso clean when he won the 2012(10) Giro?

I'll never know but he published his entire seasons blood values along with explanations from several experts. He posted watts as well. All of this was through Sassi's website.

That's better than Garmin or Sky have done or will ever do...

He also grafted his win. It looked believable. Proof of nothing of course but adding all that up compared to what I've seen in this Tour I can safely say Sky were doped. Period.

How's them apples?