Basso suggests Sky doping? Likens them to Armstrong/USPS

[hrotha]

Interesting. I knew this stuff would come post Tour. Once riders get home and start to reflect on what happened they’ll start talking.

Of course Szmyd is just bitter and is looking for a book deal. Oh and he didn’t read the Clinic first to check if the “numbers” where in the realm of normal. Not as fast as Pantani so clean.

But of course, it's all in our imaginations. Szmyd isn't hinting at anything, just like Basso wasn't!

 

[Rockets160]

I'm literally astounded by the Sky supporters on this thread.

You have Basso, freaking BASSO for christ's sake, drawing a parallel between Sky and LA-led USPS, and stating that there is no way anyone could get away from Porte on a climb.

And you think he WASN'T hinting at doping?

Pull your head out!

LOL! Freaking BASSO!
I concur with JMB.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

But of course, it's all in our imaginations. Szmyd isn't hinting at anything, just like Basso wasn't!

Visiting the clinic now just depresses me. I truly hope that Sky do something soon to justify their transparent approach to racing...

 

[hrotha]

Visiting the clinic now just depresses me. I truly hope that Sky do something soon to justify their transparent approach to racing...

Forget about Sky actually being clean, dirty, transparent or a mafia for a second and tell me: do you think Basso and Szmyd believe Sky had an unfair medical advantage during this Tour and that they're dropping hints about it?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Forget about Sky actually being clean, dirty, transparent or a mafia for a second and tell me: do you think Basso and Szmyd believe Sky had an unfair medical advantage during this Tour and that they're dropping hints about it?

Assuming the translations are correct then it certainly points that way. I find it odd coming from Basso given his history.

 

[Arnout]

“They’ve done well to bring their captain and vice captain in their best condition. They are doing their work to make sure that those two are protected, nether too fast nor too slow. Like I said, they’re riders with big balls.”

I think this comment is really interesting (of the original Basso interview). First summing up why Sky was so brilliant and then that last line. It's not a comment one would expect if he was merely praising their team effort.

Must be interesting to know the feeling in the Liquigas bus, as also Szmyd now makes some comments.

Anyone have the Italian text or the original interview? I don't really like judging based on cycling website translations (although I don't know if Velonews is any better than Cyclingnews in using google translate).

 

[JRTinMA]

Assuming the translations are correct then it certainly points that way. I find it odd coming from Basso given his history.

His history is the reason to listen to what Basso is saying. He knows the score.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

His history is the reason to listen to what Basso is saying. He knows the score.

Possibly but for someone who never admitted to doping (only with the intention) it seems surprising to me he would accuse someone else. Unlike, say, Landis who had nothing to lose.

 

[Franklin]

Psshhhh... Basso and Szmyd are just lazy no-good libelous w****s.

Had they been swimming, organized cooldowns and had they really trained hard they would have been more of a competition.

Oh and lighter shoes! We must not forget the shoes.

 

[Franklin]

Possibly but for someone who never admitted to doping (only with the intention) it seems surprising to me he would accuse someone else. Unlike, say, Landis who had nothing to lose.

Perhaps this is a question of "who throws the first stone"

Brad used to be vocal when he was younger and lazier.

 

[Arnout]

Possibly but for someone who never admitted to doping (only with the intention) it seems surprising to me he would accuse someone else. Unlike, say, Landis who had nothing to lose.

In the cycling world you don't say things like that. Only Millar got away with it and even he had major troubles finding his place.

Saying that you only took a little bit or was planning to, is not believable and everyone knows it, but it is the best way to keep the press silent.

It happens more: Euskaltel said after last year, 2011, that they experienced the best year in the new Euskaltel. 2003 was arguably their best year ever (with 2nd in LBL, good results in Pays Vasco, Dauphine, Tour and such). It was very clear that with the new Euskaltel they meant the non-doping Euskaltel. Still, they didn't say it that way, because it would hurt them.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

In the cycling world you don't say things like that. Only Millar got away with it and even he had major troubles finding his place.

Saying that you only took a little bit or was planning to, is not believable and everyone knows it, but it is the best way to keep the press silent.

It happens more: Euskaltel said after last year, 2011, that they experienced the best year in the new Euskaltel. 2003 was arguably their best year ever (with 2nd in LBL, good results in Pays Vasco, Dauphine, Tour and such). It was very clear that with the new Euskaltel they meant the non-doping Euskaltel. Still, they didn't say it that way, because it would hurt them.

But that is why I say I am surprised... i.e. For someone who is playing the game to then call someone else out? Does that make sense?

Interesting about what you say about Euskaltel.

 

[Arnout]

But that is why I say I am surprised... i.e. For someone who is playing the game to then call someone else out? Does that make sense?

Interesting about what you say about Euskaltel.

I think Basso is competing without PEDs since his return (obviously, this is open to discussions, but I'm not aware of anything pointing in doping direction), but he was out for two years. I do think it is more frustrating for dopers to be convicted and banned and to see other teams doing the same thing you did (at least from the outside, obviously without proof) without penalty than to compete cleanly and be beaten by dopers. Why that is, I don't know, but I've seen this attitude more in the peloton.

 

[thehog]

Anyone have the Italian text or the original interview? I don't really like judging based on cycling website translations (although I don't know if Velonews is any better than Cyclingnews in using google translate).

The author speaks fluent Italian and English. He lives in Milan and reports and writes in English. I can only assume the interview was conducted in Italian. This wasn't a translation from another source. Its the authors first hand work.

One could ask: twitter.com/gregorbrown/

 

[Rockets160]

Forget about Sky actually being clean, dirty, transparent or a mafia for a second and tell me: do you think Basso and Szmyd believe Sky had an unfair medical advantage during this Tour and that they're dropping hints about it?

Yes. To both. Basso came from the era and has seen firsthand and is probably ticked off about them not being caught out. Szmd because what else would he withhold a comment on? Maybe he thinks Bradley is handsome with those lamb chops of his?
Seriously, yes on both accounts.

 

[Arnout]

The author speaks fluent Italian and English. He lives in Milan and reports and writes in English. I can only assume the interview was conducted in Italian. This wasn't a translation from another source. Its the authors first hand work.

One could ask: twitter.com/gregorbrown/

Thanks for clarifying

 

[hiero2]

I don't really see this possiblity in the replies:

Basso IS referring to the possibility of doping, but also recognizing the possibility that the performance was not doped. After all, Basso is not in the Sky team bus, and was not at their training camp. The results COULD be honest, and that is what he is saying. "They could be honest, they might not be honest - but it was one hell of a ride".

Actually, I have heard a LOT of people using that line this year. On Eurosport Harmon, Kelly, and others made practically direct references to doping - each saying, at some point, words to the effect: "If they are clean, these are great performances" about Sky and Sagan.

 

[D-Queued]

I don't really see this possiblity in the replies:

Basso IS referring to the possibility of doping, but also recognizing the possibility that the performance was not doped. After all, Basso is not in the Sky team bus, and was not at their training camp. The results COULD be honest, and that is what he is saying. "They could be honest, they might not be honest - but it was one hell of a ride".

Actually, I have heard a LOT of people using that line this year. On Eurosport Harmon, Kelly, and others made practically direct references to doping - each saying, at some point, words to the effect: "If they are clean, these are great performances" about Sky and Sagan.

Ok, the guy did not come back from cancer, but what was that other quote from some other cycling guy that appears to have found an echo:

'If <insert name here> is clean, it is the greatest comeback in the history of sports...'

That guy probably thought what he was referring to was an undoped performance as well. And, I am sure Basso has NEVER heard that quote before and doesn't even know who that other cyclist that said this is.

Dave.

 

[taiwan]

I don't really see this possiblity in the replies:

Basso IS referring to the possibility of doping, but also recognizing the possibility that the performance was not doped. After all, Basso is not in the Sky team bus, and was not at their training camp. The results COULD be honest, and that is what he is saying. "They could be honest, they might not be honest - but it was one hell of a ride".

Actually, I have heard a LOT of people using that line this year. On Eurosport Harmon, Kelly, and others made practically direct references to doping - each saying, at some point, words to the effect: "If they are clean, these are great performances" about Sky and Sagan.

No chance.

 

[zlev11]

it's apparent to me that Szmyd and Basso know exactly what's going on. the last few GT's (except Froome at the Vuelta) felt and looked very clean. as clean as they were in decades. but this Tour was something else. it's just so obvious, and now everyone is going to have to catch up to Sky's program if they want to get results. we'll either see Sky lockout podiums because they're the only team not afraid to get caught, or we'll see riders on other teams doped up as much as Sky. it is going to be just like the Armstrong/US Postal era.

just watch. next years Tour is going to be ridiculous.

 

[DirtyWorks]

we'll either see Sky lockout podiums...

The problem with doping is that the results are unsustainable. Breakout TdF performance on the scale of a Hinault/Merckx and then a few weeks later, it's mid-field glory. This is why their "train more, race less" rhetoric is a total failure.

If I'm wrong we would have seen a couple of things by now:
1. **Complete** domination in most Under 23 events by some now-Sky riders.
2. The Sky TdF squad winning pretty much everywhere that has hills. They would have cruised to Spring Classics wins by now, just like a Hinault or Merckx.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Sky TdF squad during Worlds.

Sadly, there is probably a new doping arms race going on because of the TdF. If only it were acceptable to schedule opposite Sky's objectives...

 

[thehog]

The problem with doping is that the results are unsustainable. Breakout TdF performance on the scale of a Hinault/Merckx and then a few weeks later, it's mid-field glory. This is why their "train more, race less" rhetoric is a total failure.

If I'm wrong we would have seen a couple of things by now:
1. **Complete** domination in most Under 23 events by some now-Sky riders.
2. The Sky TdF squad winning pretty much everywhere that has hills. They would have cruised to Spring Classics wins by now, just like a Hinault or Merckx.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Sky TdF squad during Worlds.

Sadly, there is probably a new doping arms race going on because of the TdF. If only it were acceptable to schedule opposite Sky's objectives...

Armstrong got it right. Bar a few well paid crits he wouldn’t race again keeping the myth alive. These guys have to do the Olympics. Be interesting to see how they go outside of Cav.

Next year expect Saxo to app back to CSC levels and Liquiags to be the new T-Mobile.

 

[hiero2]

No chance.

Hehe. No chance what? That Kelly said something like that? I am quite sure he did - I was listening. I think Kelly spoke about Sagan, though. Harmon and some guest speaker who was a former pro, I think, were pretty blatant at times regarding Sky. If you have recordings of the Eurosport broadcasts, check the last 5 days. I THINK it was on the last Friday - the guest was about as open as I have ever heard on a broadcast - mentioning something about previous wins and winners being currently questioned, and making that comparison. Harmon made comments on earlier stages in the racing.

Or, no chance that Sky was clean? Hey, they make the claim to being clean - nobody has caught them yet, so it is possible, eh? I don't know, you don't know, we suspect. Nothing more, eh?

Oh - and remember, none of these comments was out and out "if they were doping". They were always couched in safe, non-libelous terms. "Pointed" comments - just like Basso's.

 

[taiwan]

Hehe. No chance what? That Kelly said something like that? I am quite sure he did - I was listening. I think Kelly spoke about Sagan, though. Harmon and some guest speaker who was a former pro, I think, were pretty blatant at times regarding Sky. If you have recordings of the Eurosport broadcasts, check the last 5 days. I THINK it was on the last Friday - the guest was about as open as I have ever heard on a broadcast - mentioning something about previous wins and winners being currently questioned, and making that comparison. Harmon made comments on earlier stages in the racing.

Or, no chance that Sky was clean? Hey, they make the claim to being clean - nobody has caught them yet, so it is possible, eh? I don't know, you don't know, we suspect. Nothing more, eh?

Oh - and remember, none of these comments was out and out "if they were doping". They were always couched in safe, non-libelous terms. "Pointed" comments - just like Basso's.

I'm not going to listen to all the Tour commentary for 5 days, but I struggle to believe that Harmon or Kelly would so much as suggest the possibility that Sky were doping. I'd really have to hear it.

 

[Chipist]

When you are only 70kg

Building muscle mass of 10kg in a year is easy enough clean when full time, although it would take a lot of time in the gym rather than on the bike. Now getting over the hills within the cutoff may not be so easy.

When sky started out they claimed they were going to be clean, now they do not seem so keen on stating that bar Brailsford saying it yesterday.

Hmmm, what to believe.......