Battle for 2023-2025 WT licenses

[proffate]

I was asked who are the best five pure sprinters - I don't have any of the riders you listed in the top 5 - The strangest thing is I've been very complimentary of De Lie's performances in 2022 and praised him for defeating an in-form Demare.

sure. I just don't think this list makes much sense. Either you're talking about top 5 today, which must be the case if you're counting Jakobsen and Phillipsen, neither of whom has shown the dominance of an in-form Cav (or even 2021 Cav), Bennett, or Ewan, or you're talking about top 5 active sprinters if they are sprinting at their past peak, which must be the case if you're counting Ewan or Groenewegen. (Demare is not top 5 by either standard as he has never had a good track record at the TDF and is forced to mop up wins against second rate competition.)

 

[yaco]

sure. I just don't think this list makes much sense. Either you're talking about top 5 today, which must be the case if you're counting Jakobsen and Phillipsen, neither of whom has shown the dominance of an in-form Cav (or even 2021 Cav), Bennett, or Ewan, or you're talking about top 5 active sprinters if they are sprinting at their past peak, which must be the case if you're counting Ewan or Groenewegen. (Demare is not top 5 by either standard as he has never had a good track record at the TDF and is forced to mop up wins against second rate competition.)

It's very clear that I am referring to the top five sprinters today. These are the guys that De Lie and Kooij need to defeat to win WT races and especially GT stage victories. I''ll also add that four of the riders mentioned rode the TDF with three winning stages while Demare was the dominant sprinter at the Giro.

 

[Netserk]

sure. I just don't think this list makes much sense. Either you're talking about top 5 today, which must be the case if you're counting Jakobsen and Phillipsen, neither of whom has shown the dominance of an in-form Cav (or even 2021 Cav), Bennett, or Ewan, or you're talking about top 5 active sprinters if they are sprinting at their past peak, which must be the case if you're counting Ewan or Groenewegen. (Demare is not top 5 by either standard as he has never had a good track record at the TDF and is forced to mop up wins against second rate competition.)

Groenewegen is easily among the 5 best sprinters this year.

 

[Samamba]

Looking really good for Movistar now with Mas his current form and advantage over others in the Vuelta. If he doesn't crash or get sick, he'll be on the podium in 2 weeks which would basically save Movistar (atleast if Aranburu/Cortina also score some points in the meantime).

EF on the other hand is still underperforming. Padun looked good, he'll probably win a stage this Vuelta but it's not looking like they'll get the big GC points in the end (it's early, a lot can still change obviously). Some pressure on guys like Cort, Bettiol and Guerreiro to perform in other races like Plouay and Canadian GPs the upcoming 2 weekends. They are also riding the Maryland classic where there's a lot of "free" points on the line (not a good startlist for a .Pro race), but they are going to need to perform a bit in the Italian classics as I don't see them doing that in Belgium or France (apart from maybe some points with Marijn Van den Berg).

Lotto Soudal did good the last few weeks, but no Belgian races till the 14th of September. Fourmies (on the 11th) is probably the first race they'll get solid points in again. Or someone needs to surprise in Plouay or Canada, but their best shots (Wellens and Kron) don't have any form due to sickness recently. Ewan seems to have some form tho and if he isn't being selected for worlds they'll have 2 fresh sprinters to try to clean up a lot of those sprint one day races in the 2nd part of September and the first part of October. I think the only way they save themselves is if one of the above teams gets some serious bad luck and they perform nearly perfect or they surprise the world and start winning in Plouay/Canada.

Israel still doesn't seem to be able to get solid points. Teuns is an asset but he still needs to make up 140ish points to be in their top 10 and more importantly they are a 1000 points behind. With Fuglsang apparenlty still not fit, Woods having crashed out of the Vuelta and Nizzolo not being in fine form this year I just don't see it happening anymore. And with TotalEnergies performing really good in smaller Belgian races and especially in those French races they won't get the WT stage race wildcards for next year either.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Movistar also have the hope for some decent GC results in Deutschlandtour, with the one MTF and four decent climbers in the team in Pedrero, Sosa, Rubio and Rodríguez - they could do with either Pedrero or Sosa having a good day on the Schauinsland stage to bank a strong GC position and that will be a solid bank of points. However, Movistar have a severe deficit in taking the points race seriously and if Mas does crash or get sick, they might be in full on desperation mode come the autumn classics in Italy.

 

[Samamba]

Movistar also have the hope for some decent GC results in Deutschlandtour, with the one MTF and four decent climbers in the team in Pedrero, Sosa, Rubio and Rodríguez - they could do with either Pedrero or Sosa having a good day on the Schauinsland stage to bank a strong GC position and that will be a solid bank of points. However, Movistar have a severe deficit in taking the points race seriously and if Mas does crash or get sick, they might be in full on desperation mode come the autumn classics in Italy.

They have added a ton of Belgian (where they normally never participate in) and Italian classics to their schedule so I think they finally realized. Kanter seems to be in good form so he can get consistent points in some of the sprint races. I agree that they could get a decent GC in Germany too, but their riders did have a pretty bad prologue and I don't think that one climb is super hard. The field there is pretty strong too. It just depends on Mas tbh. If he stays on his bike, he'll get enough points this Vuelta (GC but also 2nd and 3rd ^places in stages). And Aranburu seems to be in fine form. Plouay and Quebec especially are perfect for him to get top 5s in.

 

[Potomac]

Padun is not yet a top ten rider for EF points. Powless pretty much needs to win this Maryland race. for EF I will go and cheer him on.

 

[Anderis]

Padun is not yet a top ten rider for EF points.

He will be as soon as he gets a stage win or any other noticeable result.

The bar is set pretty low at EF this season. Kudus is their 10th rider and he got 90% points for NC and the other 10% for finishing 40-th something in one week races. Padun needs 23 points to jump him.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Is there any good place to see which riders that actually mean something?
Like the top 15 scorers of each relevant team or something.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is there any good place to see which riders that actually mean something?
Like the top 15 scorers of each relevant team or something.

At PCS, on the rankings page you can filter the individual ranking by team, which is probably the easiest way to check which riders 'count'.

 

[Samamba]

Is there any good place to see which riders that actually mean something?
Like the top 15 scorers of each relevant team or something.

UCI World Ranking Teams

UAE Team Emirates - XRG is leading the UCI World Ranking for teams with 40637.6 points, 40637.6 more than Team Visma | Lease a Bike (22886.7) and 40637.6 more than Lidl - Trek (21227.4).

www.procyclingstats.com

If you go to this link and click on the actual points of a team you see their scorers of this year.
So for example for LTS you click on the "5432"

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Also bad for Israel that Hagen crashed really bad today. He’s within the top 10 and with his good form a GC placement around 15 would be within reach. Not a lot of points, but would’ve been handy. He could possibly also have gained some more points in the autumn classics, but I fear he will not reach top form again this season after such a crash.

 

[shalgo]

What happens to Quintana’s points from the TDF? And does it depend in when his appeal is decided?

 

[StryderHells]

What happens to Quintana’s points from the TDF? And does it depend in when his appeal is decided?

He’s been DQ’d so no points from the TDF, if he’s reinstated then so will the points.

 

[Anderis]

At PCS, on the rankings page you can filter the individual ranking by team, which is probably the easiest way to check which riders 'count'.

At first I thought this method was good but the individual ranking seems to be the 12 months ranking and not 2022 alone ranking so it's not reliable in this case.

 

[Netserk]

At first I thought this method was good but the individual ranking seems to be the 12 months ranking and not 2022 alone ranking so it's not reliable in this case.

From the bottom of this article: https://lanternerouge.com.au/2022/0...tions-as-arkea-lose-points-relegation-battle/

 

[Samu Cuenca]

At first I thought this method was good but the individual ranking seems to be the 12 months ranking and not 2022 alone ranking so it's not reliable in this case.

It is the 2022 rankings.

However they don't seem to have taken various points deductions into account for the individual rankings.

 

[Anderis]

It is the 2022 rankings.

When I click on the points breakdown, it shows me late 2021 results counted. Even the headline says: "Summation of points over a 52-week rolling period."

Or are you accessing another ranking from a place that I didn't think of? I'm talking about this one:

UCI Rider Ranking

UCI World Ranking by individual rider according to the UCI regulations. Tadej PogaÄar has the most points (11680) before Jonas Vingegaard (5944.1) and Isaac del Toro (5514).

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Samu Cuenca]

When I click on the points breakdown, it shows me late 2021 results counted. Even the headline says: "Summation of points over a 52-week rolling period."

Or are you accessing another ranking from a place that I didn't think of?

If you go to the page below, and click on a team's points tally, you get the list of points obtained by each of their riders in 2022, which I see was also what was explained above.

UCI World Ranking Teams

UAE Team Emirates - XRG is leading the UCI World Ranking for teams with 40637.6 points, 40637.6 more than Team Visma | Lease a Bike (22886.7) and 40637.6 more than Lidl - Trek (21227.4).

www.procyclingstats.com

These are the points for the JV riders, though they haven't deducted the points that all their Tour riders lost for failing to attend the team presentation ahead of stage 12: https://www.procyclingstats.com/team.php?date=2022-08-23&id=1330&p=results&s=uci-world-teams

And for Israel: https://www.procyclingstats.com/team.php?date=2022-08-23&id=2738&p=results&s=uci-world-teams

 

[Anderis]

Yeah, that all works, but I was referring to the Libertine's method of sorting by team from the individual ranking.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Yeah, that all works, but I was referring to the Libertine's method of sorting by team from the individual ranking.

Well there's a whole thread about how that isn't possible, and that no one else seems to have been willing to make the effort to produce such a list.

Hopefully the UCI will do it themselves one day.

 

[tobydawq]

From the bottom of this article: https://lanternerouge.com.au/2022/0...tions-as-arkea-lose-points-relegation-battle/

This is only updated every second week, though (at least last time I checked).

 

[Samamba]

« On se bat à coups de points » pour le WorldTour 2023-2025

« On se bat à coups de points » pour le WorldTour 2023-2025 : Matis Louvel a décroché, ce mercredi à la Course aux Raisins, sa deuxième victoire pro (voir classement) et par la même...

www.directvelo.com

Probably the best article about the points battle I've seen all year, great stuff from Directvelo.

Some of the most interesting parts:

About the current situation:

• Arkea confirming that's it's all in for their top 10 scorers in every race and that the situation gives a lot of stress. They have been planning this for 3 years tho and they are in a good position even tho they still don't know how the Quintana situation will turn out.
• Vauquelin wants to ride the u23 worlds but doesn't know if he has the green light from Arkea because of the point situation
• BEX is tired of talking about the points, it brings to much negativity
• Cofidis says the situation gives stress
• LTS, from the outside people make it seem that the team is mess because of it but the athmosphere in the bus is pretty good. They want to stay in the WT but the most important thing is to be in the top 2 of the ProTeams (outdated quote)
• Rik Verbrugge from Israel remains, he still believes the team is going to make it (misses some braincells I think).

Criticism towards the UCI from "big teams"

• Basically all of them: SYSTEM IS ***
• Israel complaining about how races are being raced, not for the win anymore but for about not letting other teams win. Really weird tactics, nothing that has to do with cycling.
• French teams complaining about the fact that the Schaal Sels gave 125 points, the same as Druivenkoers ("level way higher"). I agree but it's quite funny and hypocritical as those are the 2 teams that are going to be/stay WT because they have been exploiting the system for 3 years long. They're acting like they haven't been getting free points for 30 months in a row in little french races. Seriously, Arkea has 2 WT wins in 5 years time.
• Also complaints about the fact that organizers can decide who gets to ride which race and that there are limits (50% WT teams in .1, 70% in .Pro)

Criticism towards the UCI from "small teams"

• Lots of Pro Conti/Conti teams that are in throuble because they can't ride good results anymore in smaller races. There are just too many good teams and riders at the start. Sponsors don't get the visibility they need en their riders are demotivated.
• Brandt from the fluo yellow Bingoal Tietema with the weird name team thinks there's going to be teams appealing the decision in the end and they might have a chance because of the Covid problems.

 

[yaco]

« On se bat à coups de points » pour le WorldTour 2023-2025

« On se bat à coups de points » pour le WorldTour 2023-2025 : Matis Louvel a décroché, ce mercredi à la Course aux Raisins, sa deuxième victoire pro (voir classement) et par la même...

www.directvelo.com

Probably the best article about the points battle I've seen all year, great stuff from Directvelo.

Some of the most interesting parts:

About the current situation:

• Arkea confirming that's it's all in for their top 10 scorers in every race and that the situation gives a lot of stress. They have been planning this for 3 years tho and they are in a good position even tho they still don't know how the Quintana situation will turn out.
• Vauquelin wants to ride the u23 worlds but doesn't know if he has the green light from Arkea because of the point situation
• BEX is tired of talking about the points, it brings to much negativity
• Cofidis says the situation gives stress
• LTS, from the outside people make it seem that the team is mess because of it but the athmosphere in the bus is pretty good. They want to stay in the WT but the most important thing is to be in the top 2 of the ProTeams (outdated quote)
• Rik Verbrugge from Israel remains, he still believes the team is going to make it (misses some braincells I think).

Criticism towards the UCI from "big teams"

• Basically all of them: SYSTEM IS ***
• Israel complaining about how races are being raced, not for the win anymore but for about not letting other teams win. Really weird tactics, nothing that has to do with cycling.
• French teams complaining about the fact that the Schaal Sels gave 125 points, the same as Druivenkoers ("level way higher"). I agree but it's quite funny and hypocritical as those are the 2 teams that are going to be/stay WT because they have been exploiting the system for 3 years long. They're acting like they haven't been getting free points for 30 months in a row in little french races. Seriously, Arkea has 2 WT wins in 5 years time.
• Also complaints about the fact that organizers can decide who gets to ride which race and that there are limits (50% WT teams in .1, 70% in .Pro)

Criticism towards the UCI from "small teams"

• Lots of Pro Conti/Conti teams that are in throuble because they can't ride good results anymore in smaller races. There are just too many good teams and riders at the start. Sponsors don't get the visibility they need en their riders are demotivated.
• Brandt from the fluo yellow Bingoal Tietema with the weird name team things there's going to be team appealing the decision in the end and they might have chance because of the Covid problems.

I have posted the difficulties faced by Conti Teams because WT teams are cannibalising smaller races which are the domain of Conti Teams - The other irritation is that good quality riders have been given a calendar of smaller races with them missing bigger races including GT's.

 

[Sciatic]

I have posted the difficulties faced by Conti Teams because WT teams are cannibalising smaller races which are the domain of Conti Teams - The other irritation is that good quality riders have been given a calendar of smaller races with them missing bigger races including GT's.

I hadn’t given much thought to this consequence—shows the system has to change.